Impenetrable Towns?

[Goonswarm]

tl;dr implement tnt block breaking with block regeneration asap. Server is still interesting but this would be amazing and really give players incentive to play and work together once the TNT change happens.

 

[HolyRane]

tl;dr implement tnt block breaking with block regeneration asap. Server is still interesting but this would be amazing and really give players incentive to play and work together once the TNT change happens.

this was supposed to happen like 8 months ago haha

 

[Goonswarm]

this was supposed to happen like 8 months ago haha

Seriously? Wow.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

TNT regional block breaking seems like it would solve this problem, but many other problems are presented:

• You can't place a TNT block in a regioned area, so you would have to build a cannon to shoot an active TNT at a town wall. This would be difficult to do, and it would require you to "drill" a hole in a wall instead of a surgical placement of just a couple of TNT blocks. If the regioned block regen time is short, then the initial blocks that were blasted away will regen before you can "drill" very deep. Even if you aim your cannon to blow through the main gate, they could just have a secondary gate - and a tertiary gate - and many layers of gates that you could never break through using a TNT cannon.
• Obsidian! Water! New defenses would be put in place to counter TNT anyway. Granted - you would have a difficult time obtaining enough obsidian to create a large wall, it still means that all valuables could be placed in a reasonably-sized obsidian room. People could also hide in obsidian rooms. Now we're back at square one.

If TNT is allowed to destroy regional blocks, it should also be allowed to be placed in a region that you don't have permissions for. This would allow you to break through doors and other passages that are often used by players. You could also make it through many layers of protection that you couldn't go through with a TNT cannon (as mentioned above). True, you could make a door-less obsidian room (this could be used to create a secure vault!), but people aren't going to use obsidian blocks as doors, and they aren't going to put them above their chests, due to the inconvenience of breaking and replacing them.

Now - you don't want people setting TNT traps in your town, so there could be an expiration time for a TNT block placed in a region you don't have permissions for. Say - 30 seconds. (This is less of an issue - you can remove TNT without detonating it. Furthermore, you wouldn't be able to create the rest of the trap, you'd only be able to place the TNT)

 

[Multis_Revenge12]

I just hope there aren't TNT cannons and random crators everywhere....

 

[Goonswarm]

I think the concept of bringing a raiding team to someones base, having to take the time to build a cannon, calculate aim, and fire it without being killed by the defenders is an amazing and fun concept. I hope it is implemented.

 

[MajorasMask]

I think the concept of bringing a raiding team to someones base, having to take the time to build a cannon, calculate aim, and fire it without being killed by the defenders is an amazing and fun concept. I hope it is implemented.

Same here. Although I fear that tons of PvPers will complain when builders start using water walls, which are currently 100% legal (out of sight; out of mind).

 

[northeaster345]

TNT regional block breaking seems like it would solve this problem, but many other problems are presented:

• You can't place a TNT block in a regioned area, so you would have to build a cannon to shoot an active TNT at a town wall. This would be difficult to do, and it would require you to "drill" a hole in a wall instead of a surgical placement of just a couple of TNT blocks. If the regioned block regen time is short, then the initial blocks that were blasted away will regen before you can "drill" very deep. Even if you aim your cannon to blow through the main gate, they could just have a secondary gate - and a tertiary gate - and many layers of gates that you could never break through using a TNT cannon.
• Obsidian! Water! New defenses would be put in place to counter TNT anyway. Granted - you would have a difficult time obtaining enough obsidian to create a large wall, it still means that all valuables could be placed in a reasonably-sized obsidian room. People could also hide in obsidian rooms. Now we're back at square one.

If TNT is allowed to destroy regional blocks, it should also be allowed to be placed in a region that you don't have permissions for. This would allow you to break through doors and other passages that are often used by players. You could also make it through many layers of protection that you couldn't go through with a TNT cannon (as mentioned above). True, you could make a door-less obsidian room (this could be used to create a secure vault!), but people aren't going to use obsidian blocks as doors, and they aren't going to put them above their chests, due to the inconvenience of breaking and replacing them.

I'll ignore the block jumping and other exploits that this would allow, and the fact that you'd have to rewrite block protection just to allow TNT to be placed (and that you'd have to either treat personal regions differently or drop/rewrite the plugin). I think your overall argument is that there should be no counter to TNT and that it should simple and easy to TNT into anywhere.

You don't need to destroy someone's wall entirely to get in, just find a weak spot, and build a fast firing cannon to blow a hole in their wall that you can get in, remember that a 1x1 hole is all you need to get in. Since many towns place their outer walls right near the edge of regions, it's not like you have to fire that far. I'm excited to see all the cannons people design when TNT gets implemented, so that it takes thought and skill to TNT into someone's regions.

The prohibitive cost of making water walls or obsidian rooms is an investment that should give you some measure of protection against a player TNTing. No system is 100% secure, entrances are generally weaker to TNT, and there's always the fact of human error, despite any precautions you may take.

Oh god, another one of these ''Towns can no longer be raided'' posts.
Sooner or later you'll want water walls to be illegal because they prevent TNT-explosions.

Am I the only one who saw this coming?

Majoras the prophet has been proven right already

 

[MajorasMask]

Majoras the prophet has proven been right already

I don't understand.... xD

 

[northeaster345]

I don't understand.... xD

What are you talking about?

MAGIC: Clearly Majoras is crazy and can't read

 

[MajorasMask]

What are you talking about?

''Majoras the prophet has proven been right already''

It doesn't sound like it flows correctly... gimmi something simply.

 

[Goonswarm]

Northeaster, TnT cannons have a large range when built correctly. The way I see the implementation going, is the cannons have to be built outside the regions and fired into them. So what if people farm obsidian and make walls around their base, it means they are outside and vulnerable to pvp, which encourages pvp and fun in general.

I would also expect a bunch of new rules that would follow a change like this.

 

[northeaster345]

Northeaster, TnT cannons have a large range when built correctly. The way I see the implementation going, is the cannons have to be built outside the regions and fired into them. So what if people farm obsidian and make walls around their base, it means they are outside and vulnerable to pvp, which encourages pvp and fun in general.

I agree with you Goonswarm, I'm really excited about TNT, also obsidian walls make it tough to change your base, so if you want to expand it's very tough

 

[Goonswarm]

Now that rated arenas are going live, Kainzo might give us a status on this going live?

 

[Jack_Reacher]

block jumping and other exploits

TNT placement cooldown = TNT duration - 1 second

you'd have to rewrite block protection just to allow TNT to be placed (and that you'd have to either treat personal regions differently or drop/rewrite the plugin).

So the argument is you don't want extra development? Isn't extra development already necessary to get TNT to work?

I think your overall argument is that there should be no counter to TNT and that it should simple and easy to TNT into anywhere.

I'm not saying you should be able to TNT into anywhere. Remember I mentioned that players would easily be able to protect "vaults" with obsidian and/or water? I just want TNT to be able to open any regular passageways that are commonly used in a town. These are commonly sealed off with dirt, not obsidian, due to the difficulty of removing obsidian if you want to go through that passage way.

You don't need to destroy someone's wall entirely to get in, just find a weak spot, and build a fast firing cannon to blow a hole in their wall that you can get in, remember that a 1x1 hole is all you need to get in.

After you blow through the initial wall... Then what? What if there's an inner wall? Or passageways? You can't build another TNT cannon withing the base. You'd have to do a LARGE amount of damage with TNT cannons, rather than a surgical strike with TNT placement.

I agree with you guys that it would be cool if you needed to construct a TNT cannon to blast into a base, but I don't think it will actually change things much, or provide much functionality.

 

[Goonswarm]

TNT placement cooldown = TNT duration - 1 second





So the argument is you don't want extra development? Isn't extra development already necessary to get TNT to work?



I'm not saying you should be able to TNT into anywhere. Remember I mentioned that players would easily be able to protect "vaults" with obsidian and/or water? I just want TNT to be able to open any regular passageways that are commonly used in a town. These are commonly sealed off with dirt, not obsidian, due to the difficulty of removing obsidian if you want to go through that passage way.




After you blow through the initial wall... Then what? What if there's an inner wall? Or passageways? You can't build another TNT cannon withing the base. You'd have to do a LARGE amount of damage with TNT cannons, rather than a surgical strike with TNT placement.

I agree with you guys that it would be cool if you needed to construct a TNT cannon to blast into a base, but I don't think it will actually change things much, or provide much functionality.

The chance to try in itself seems like a ton of fun. I don't think your glass half empty outlook is very optimistic. Go youtube a TNT cluster cannon, or a repeating cannon. If the blocks take say 5 minutes to regenerate, that is plenty of time to put multiple shots into a base and gain entry. You only need a 2x1, or a 1x1 if you are a Wizard. There is huge potential here, and I feel like you are missing the scale of fun a change like this can make.

 

[victim130]

I think the concept of bringing a raiding team to someones base, having to take the time to build a cannon, calculate aim, and fire it without being killed by the defenders is an amazing and fun concept. I hope it is implemented.

XD (OS now) did this to LO early in the map. May not have destroyed the regioned blocks, but it killed.

 

[PanFlake]

How about you guys stop whining, towns are easily raidable. You can't just raid by yourself. You need a team! Dragoons and wizards can get into bases with no problem.

 

[XenZan]

This may be my nobish, anti-pvp opinion, but allowing people to blow holes in a town's walls doesn't seem very "fun" to me xD
If I want to pvp, then I go out and pvp. This effectively forces people to pvp. And how would this affect chests? Just curious, but would they blow up? Spew their contents everywhere? If anything, the idea makes me feel like towns would be LESS safe than a random hiding spot in the wilderness lol. At least there, people aren't looking for you or even know you exist, whereas obviously town locations are no secret. As a new player, I joined a town to have a "safe" location to store my stuff, even though placing blocks over the top of chests looks awful in terms of aesthetics. If we're now going to have people running around TNTing everything, what's the point? Surface plots will be pointless except for looks then, since they can be easily breached. Towns will exist even moreso underground than they already are.

Not to mention how this will affect class ratios... As soon as this goes live, guess who will be a miner? Everyone xD
I'm sure many have already started leveling miner just because this is in the future.

 

[MajorasMask]

How about you guys stop whining, towns are easily raidable. You can't just raid by yourself. You need a team! Dragoons and wizards can get into bases with no problem.

Yeah. Or, if you're looking for kills, turn ranger and go track people.

It's really easy to PvP.