Heroes

[Kainzo]

The bar of entry for new players is quite high with this RPG system in place. You have to grind so much to catch up. New players won't have any emotional attachment to the server. It's difficult to just start grinding. You don't really want to put all that time into it, because you don't know if it's what you are looking for. You can't judge the server until you are max level of your class, but at that point you've already put so much time into it. New players just won't commit to the grind.

Ha, you should have seen Zeal era .... it took longer to level and master your first path than ever.... you had to go to level 50 twice.

 

[HolyRane]

Ha, you should have seen Zeal era .... it took longer to level and master your first path than ever.... you had to go to level 50 twice.

But there was spawners! And mining

 

[MajorasMask]

It takes a lot of effort to find pvp nowadays.

The plug-in itself has not weakened PvP, infact, I never EVER would have seen the same stuff that happened on the North-Road, in Zeal, to have happened in Sanctum. People would'nt have been walking into a fight without armour, to wish only upon their skills. Back then, I don't recall many skills. Things like fireball and root where new to me during Zeal. Things like these allow people to come into a fight with not much.

As for border humping that you lot hate so much, people did that on the north road. It was worse back then because you could hit people from non-pvp zones. Many casters did this, mostly accidental, from many different guilds and towns.

If it takes effort to find PvP, I wouldn't say this is the plug-ins fault, or anything to do with town walls or defences. The majority, i'd say, of the current active players wish for a more peaceful community to live in. For them to train their stats and to have a nice town to join. To have fun. I doubt people have the same attitudes towards PvP as they did last map. Things have changed, see, and people don't see it much anymore. If I am wrong, and the community DOES want PvP, then why don't they go ahead and start it?

 

[MajorasMask]

But there was spawners! And mining

Spawners were abused a lot (remember all those ban appeals regarding illegal use?) and created a bit of trouble. You can still mine...

 

[kevinlive]

Spawners were abused a lot (remember all those ban appeals regarding illegal use?) and created a bit of trouble. You can still mine...

In zeal you could level up your combat class by mining, and in late zeal you could level your spec by mining aswell.
You can't do this in DG.

 

[HolyRane]

The plug-in itself has not weakened PvP, infact, I never EVER would have seen the same stuff that happened on the North-Road, in Zeal, to have happened in Sanctum. People would'nt have been walking into a fight without armour, to wish only upon their skills. Back then, I don't recall many skills. Things like fireball and root where new to me during Zeal. Things like these allow people to come into a fight with not much.

As for border humping that you lot hate so much, people did that on the north road. It was worse back then because you could hit people from non-pvp zones. Many casters did this, mostly accidental, from many different guilds and towns.

If it takes effort to find PvP, I wouldn't say this is the plug-ins fault, or anything to do with town walls or defences. The majority, i'd say, of the current active players wish for a more peaceful community to live in. For them to train their stats and to have a nice town to join. To have fun. I doubt people have the same attitudes towards PvP as they did last map. Things have changed, see, and people don't see it much anymore. If I am wrong, and the community DOES want PvP, then why don't they go ahead and start it?

We want pvp, but no one likes to lose, so only if people grind for weeks will they want to fight, and then you have to have an equal amount of people on each side. The problem lies with how it can take 30+ hits to kill someone.

Poeple need to stop being faggots and border humping. It's absolutely insane. You hit someone and they run into no pvp... they come back 5 mins later and kill you while you are 1v1'ing someone else. The community needs to grow up, everyone on here only thnks for them selves.

 

[HolyRane]

In zeal you could level up your combat class by mining, and in late zeal you could level your spec by mining aswell.
You can't do this inat DG.

Here's the thing. Sanctum was awesome because of the TOWN feel to it. Everyone worked FOR the town. Zeal was cool because there was CLOSE towns with pvp rampant. DG lacks pvp and is more like sanctum, except people are assholes and hide in spawn plots.

EDIT: Another thing is that there is NO, ZERO, NONE, NOTHING wars like on sanctum, ex: ORE/MoB Assin Guild/Everyone Madlum/NATO Bloodline/ORE/Neverast. On sanctum tourhere was LESS pvp, but when there WAS pvp it was on a grand scale. It felt very submersive and fun to immerse yourself into the war effort, mining/building for possibly your towns survival.

The problem lies within not spawn plots/no pvp regions. But the mindset to NEED that protection, this is the issue that causes people like us to get bored. People would rather cower and hold safely onto their items than having fun.

 

[kevinlive]

Here's the thing. Sanctum was awesome because of the TOWN feel to it. Everyone worked FOR the town. Zeal was cool because there was CLOSE towns with pvp rampant. DG lacks pvp and is more like sanctum, except people are assholes and hide in spawn plots.

The problem lies within not spawn plots/no pvp regions. But the mindset to NEED that protection, this is the issue that causes people like us to get bored. People would rather cower and hold safely onto their items than having fun.

Imo the problem lies within and around towns and how they work in DG - many factors are in this, distance between towns, easy aquired towns, spread out community, less kingdoms, everyone lives in dg plots, etc. I belive we share simular thoughts about the matter.

(Also, that was just a reply to Majora's post, didn't really have to do anything about the topic).

 

[MajorasMask]

I'll answer with basic points:

- Grinding is difficult, but you can't be expected to get all the levels you need in an hour. Hardcore doesn't come just under PvP. Professions are there to restrict basic non-pvp activity, sure, i'm glad you see that! Classes however, are to restrict skill use and the weapons/armour you can use. Without this, everyone would be able to use the same weapons and armour. This won't make PvP more likely to happen. Let's go back to Dielan's example, if around 8 people are attacking a town, the 2 inside won't come out because they are outnumbered. It isn't a case of what skills/armour you can use, it is the case of wanting to stay safe and secure; this is not a result of a plug-in.

- The server is a lot more hardcore than it used to be. If anything, it is easier to steal from people. This is where LWCs and regions came from. You made it sound like Sanctum was amazing for all PvP activities, however nearly everyone in Sanctum had their own LWCs and regions, unlimited and free. This wasn't hardcore, I remember Kainzo mentioning this sometime. It made it useless to raid, you couldn't get into ANYTHING. Things have changed since then, people need to work together to get what they need, refering to the way the ''Bubble World'' concept is destroyed upon the creation and use of the plug-in. Now, you just can't do everything yourself!

- Heroes didn't make PvP worse, I say it made it better. It gave a variety to battles. No longer would you see people walking around with arrows in their pockets and swords in their hands. You saw people with sticks, bricks and jukeboxes. It introduced skills unseen previously, creating the need for a balanced team during raids, not just some rich-ass players with full diamond and a stack of arrows fighting eachother!


On an unrelated note, I think Heroes has made this server a lot more popular. Before, it could be compared to many other ''Hardcore'' servers, with the similar plug-ins ect. Now, it has something different, which I am sure many new players are looking for!

 

[MajorasMask]

We want pvp, but no one likes to lose, so only if people grind for weeks will they want to fight, and then you have to have an equal amount of people on each side. The problem lies with how it can take 30+ hits to kill someone.

Poeple need to stop being faggots and border humping. It's absolutely insane. You hit someone and they run into no pvp... they come back 5 mins later and kill you while you are 1v1'ing someone else. The community needs to grow up, everyone on here only thnks for them selves.

People used to grind in Zeal too. Maybe on personal measures, through spawners, but they did it. As for people on both sides, you have nearly always had to have more people on one-side to win. You can't expect 2 people, let's say in Sanctum, being able to take down 8 other people.

Border humping is not an issue with the Heroes plug-in. It is an issue with PvP, and the plug-in itself wouldn't stop it. Like you said, skills were in Sanctum too. In that case, people would have done it anyways. People might border hump to win, to find a way to attack without getting hit. Do you expect them to just come out and let you beat them? That, to me, is the a main pro of having long-range skills. I don't border hump, but I can see the benefits.

Thinking for themselves, right.... never would see that from you.... :/

 

[MajorasMask]

Here's the thing. Sanctum was awesome because of the TOWN feel to it. Everyone worked FOR the town. Zeal was cool because there was CLOSE towns with pvp rampant. DG lacks pvp and is more like sanctum, except people are assholes and hide in spawn plots.

EDIT: Another thing is that there is NO, ZERO, NONE, NOTHING wars like on sanctum, ex: ORE/MoB Assin Guild/Everyone Madlum/NATO Bloodline/ORE/Neverast. On sanctum tourhere was LESS pvp, but when there WAS pvp it was on a grand scale. It felt very submersive and fun to immerse yourself into the war effort, mining/building for possibly your towns survival.

The problem lies within not spawn plots/no pvp regions. But the mindset to NEED that protection, this is the issue that causes people like us to get bored. People would rather cower and hold safely onto their items than having fun.

This is to do with the community, not the plug-in.

There have been battles on here too. What, was the war with Canterlot and XD not good enough? It felt good, it was very fun! I died a lot, I didn't kill anyone, but it was very enjoyable. You, Holy, have made a town far from spawn. You might not see it but town-conflict does happen. Just today we had people attacking Canterlot, but we stayed inside and hid. Why? We didn't want to die. Don't blame us for this. If we want to step back from PvP, let us do it.

Not everyone finds fun in PvPing. Some like to throw fireballs from a distance, like me. Some like to hit others in 1 Vs. 1 combat, I guess like you. If people don't want to PvP, then you shouldn't complain. If you didn't have the skills to fight for yourself, would you be willing to risk your items and level to people that CAN fight for themselves? What if you had the skills, but couln't fight back and win? Maybe you are outnumbered, would you go then? I doubt you would, you wouldn't find it ''fun'' in losing, would you? Please tell me when you'd be pleased to do this. I'm sure you'd prefer to stay inside.

 

[HolyRane]

This is to do with the community, not the plug-in.

There have been battles on here too. What, was the war with Canterlot and XD not good enough? It felt good, it was very fun! I died a lot, I didn't kill anyone, but it was very enjoyable. You, Holy, have made a town far from spawn. You might not see it but town-conflict does happen. Just today we had people attacking Canterlot, but we stayed inside and hid. Why? We didn't want to die. Don't blame us for this. If we want to step back from PvP, let us do it.

Not everyone finds fun in PvPing. Some like to throw fireballs from a distance, like me. Some like to hit others in 1 Vs. 1 combat, I guess like you. If people don't want to PvP, then you shouldn't complain. If you didn't have the skills to fight for yourself, would you be willing to risk your items and level to people that CAN fight for themselves? What if you had the skills, but couln't fight back and win? Maybe you are outnumbered, would you go then? I doubt you would, you wouldn't find it ''fun'' in winning, would you? Please tell me when you'd be pleased to do this. I'm sure you'd prefer to stay inside.

Back to heroes. I can 1v4 as a DK... It's hilarious. I 1v4'd 4 unspecs and didnt even break a sweat. On vanilla one could not pull this feat off haha. And the canterlot/XD fight was like what? one fucking day haha. It wasn't even a big deal. Just because some raiders attack you doesn't mean its a war. I was attacked by legacy last night, thankfully they all jumped into a little room and i poured lava all over them.

 

[aceshooter11]

Towns Need to be Changed
A working WAR system needs to be made
Town Caps need to be made for Bigger towns can Happen
With bigger towns means Good wars, The war against MoB is what made me love this server and Now theres nothing to love about this server but the old and new friends I met on it.


Edit: The 3 factions Idea would have worked but needed to be worked on at the same time and then this map could have been the most enjoyed one

 

[HolyRane]

Towns Need to be Changed
A working WAR system needs to be made
Town Caps need to be made for Bigger towns can Happen
With bigger towns means Good wars, The war against MoB is what made me love this server and Now theres nothing to love about this server but the old and new friends I met on it.

Amen. We should just make a serporate thread... I feel like we are no longer talking about heroes. lolz

 

[greyp]

I didn't post in this for making PvP more fun, I didn't always PvP. Nor do I PvP anymore but Sanctum had to be and still is the most fun I've ever had in a game. Zeal was fun but when it had to live up to Sanctum it failed for me even with the new fancy mods. I'd give my left arm and a new born baby for how Herocraft use to be. Idea make PvP and stealing a bannable offense again.

 

[HolyRane]

I didn't post in this for making PvP more fun, I didn't always PvP. Nor do I PvP anymore but Sanctum had to be and still is the most fun I've ever had in a game. Zeal was fun but when it had to live up to Sanctum it failed for me even with the new fancy mods. I'd give my left arm and a new born baby for how Herocraft use to be. Idea make PvP and stealing a bannable offense again.

Awww yeah . I want to see more of these http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/blasphemys-new-flag-built-in-ssp.244/ also, lol Kaliven was last online in 1/5/12 hes been creeping!

 

[MajorasMask]

Back to heroes. I can 1v4 as a DK... It's hilarious. I 1v4'd 4 unspecs and didnt even break a sweat. On vanilla one could not pull this feat off haha. And the canterlot/XD fight was like what? one fucking day haha. It wasn't even a big deal. Just because some raiders attack you doesn't mean its a war. I was attacked by legacy last night, thankfully they all jumped into a little room and i poured lava all over them.

Canterlot/XD was more than 2 days. When it happened, it was a great deal of fun. You call that nothing? I call you greedy. I see you and your friends getting a lot of kills every day, yet you ask for more?

Towns Need to be Changed
A working WAR system needs to be made
Town Caps need to be made for Bigger towns can Happen
With bigger towns means Good wars, The war against MoB is what made me love this server and Now theres nothing to love about this server but the old and new friends I met on it.


Edit: The 3 factions Idea would have worked but needed to be worked on at the same time and then this map could have been the most enjoyed one

Town caps: Yes.

As for wars, what makes you think towns will WANT to go to war? You make it sound that towns will be forced to go to war to pleasure those that like PvP. If towns really did want to go to war all along, then why don't they just do it?

Jeez you guys want war too much. The people that want it own their own towns, so why not just do it? We arn't stopping you lot. You are focusing too much on the peaceful players, those that wish to build, not those that wish to fight. It isn't our fault that those that wish to fight all joined up together, directing them to the passive.

 

[greyp]

This rating system is amazing, I love it.

 

[MajorasMask]

Awww yeah . I want to see more of these http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/blasphemys-new-flag-built-in-ssp.244/ also, lol Kaliven was last online in 1/5/12 hes been creeping!

You're posting all of this in a discussion about the Heroes plug-in. Why? What youj are talking about is down to the community and towns itself. I don't see you posting threads about Akahi at all... -.-

 

[Joka10]

snip

This is probably the main reason why MA is detrimental. Mobhunting is so much more enjoyable than MA. Also, in legit mobhunting, you cannot "grind". You just hope to find a large group of mobs. Despite the fact that mobhunting is fun, though, MA still has a greater appeal. Why? Well, some people have enough time on their hands and are willing enough to endure the boredom that they basically master in a day or two. The new guy who logs on and starts mobhunting gets butchered by the MA-bred 55 whatever that, due to mastery, now can pretty much walk around and slaughter whomsoever they want. There's also a sense of competition, where the new people want to level up as fast as they can to compete with the veterans. For fast and relatively safe leveling, everyone goes to MA. Then there was that awful period where very few mobs spawned in the wild... MA was the only option then. MA is boring 95% of the time, and the other 5% it's just irritating because of the idiots you get teamed up with. It is basically mobgrinding, but in a situation where you can get hurt.

Another problem with MA is that in many groups, most of the people won't play if there is an unspec with them. This makes no sense to me; How do you spec when mobhunting gets you slaughtered or if you joined in that period where mobs didn't spawn? If you wanted to alienate players, not playing MA with unspecs is a pretty good way to do it. And in the occasions where unspecs DO play, they often don't make it very far because of their weak armor/HP/skills and the amount of mobs jumping on them.

Mobhunting is fun. It's probably one of the easiest ways to make money. It takes time, though,... but how is that a bad thing? Some players have like 10 specs mastered from MA that they did in weeks. Some even have the money to switch at leisure. HC is supposed to support player cooperation, but if a rich guy can do everything himself, that doesn't really work out. Another thing about mobhunting: it encourages PvP.

Yes, PvP is encouraged by mobhunting. So, in the area I live in ingame, we and our neighbors were once raided constantly.From the time I joined up until the implementation of MA, raids were incessant. They dropped off about when MA released, but at the time, I just thought it was a coincidence. Everyone would go to MA to get levels and rewards. Raiders would come to towns and there would be no one there to fight. Marauders would go out to kill travelers and mobhunters, but both were at MA. Also, would-be raiders would fail to attack their target, go to MA to get mastery, return to attack the target and realize that in the time they spent at MA, their enemies had had time to build massive walls. People complain about no world PvP. Don't you think there would be more of that if people had to be outside of towns and safezones hunting mobs? The MA situation improved a little bit when they migrated to the wild because people had to walk there through PvP, but there were still safe zones at the MAs. Some suggested that removing no-PvP around Temple would increase it, because many people went to Temple to MA or borderhop. People went to Temple because it was easy to access, had a safe area to wait for MA, and they could PvP without dying. When no-PvP was removed, people became vulnerable there. Within a couple days, people just stopped using Temple and went to other MAs. As long as there are MAs with some form of no-PvP, people will find a legal way to level up without major PvPing. If no-PvP is completely removed, no one will use MA. They will be useless both as grinders and as centralized PvP areas. People will just revert to mobhunting. PvP will happen then, but there will still be no centralized areas and MA will be defunct.

In a Herocraft where mobhunting is the only way to level, people have fun leveling, people who are leveling run into people in the same situation and get into legitimately fair fights, raiders have a greater chance of actually finding people at the town they're after (even if they can't get them), marauders actually find people to kill in the wilderness, and nobody has like 10 mastered specs to choose from even if they have a lot of money. Classes might still be unbalanced, but players would be much less so.

MA is boring, irritating grinding that discourages fair PvP and alienates new players through imbalance and boredom. I think a lot more people would be satisfied without it.

Oh, and if it wasn't clear, a lack of MAs would make it impossible for every major PvP group to switch to whatever class is OP that day, actually requiring them to have some skill.