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Heroes

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
Here is the thing, I liked the TOWN feel of sanctum. You did just about everything FOR YOUR TOWN not for yourself

That's not something the server can change.

Why can't you just make a town and inspire your townspeople to work for the town and not themselves? That's what I did and worked out pretty well.
 

victim130

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Here is the thing, I liked the TOWN feel of sanctum. You did just about everything FOR YOUR TOWN not for yourself
That's the community change, back in Sanctum we had 200+ Active and well known players or more. At this point, I don't mean anything towards staff or Kain, but the ban system is flawed in my eyes at this point. Not to mention names, but many players have done things that would have had them banned perma rather than 3 days meaning anyone not super crazy over status could care less about breaking a rule or two.

Mind you, being Fair keeps the player base alive longer and has other pros, but people simply don't fear the rules anymore and I feel that if they did we might get our Sanctum feel back without losing the heroes. Just a suggestion though, like I said, both ways have pros and cons.
 

itzmak

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Location
Pittsburgh
Where is the raiding this map like there was last map? This map all people do is border hump. To find the PvP you just go to the popular mob arena. All together towns last map were more closely knitted, when your town got raided everybody would come together and fight the raiders. This map people just ignore the raiders and sit in their town while the raiders sit on the outside. One of the reasons I find towns not having group raids is because of the class imbalance, if you aren't specced you don't go. Yeah I know it's not the biggest reason but it's a very notable one. As a samurai I could burst down most unspecs in little to no time therefore leading them to grinding at a mob arena for hours just to spec and be able to pvp. This brings me to another point, the grinding. Grinding kills the Herocraft experience for me. I don't know about you but sitting in a mob arena for a good 3 hours mastering a class is not fun. I imagine quests to level would make grinding a bit easier but leveling in general takes way too long. I completely understand the reason for it taking time to level but it's a bit overboard now.
 

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy

I believe this is a side effect of the entire Zeal map. At the start of Zeal, towns built like Sanctum map. They were pretty. Then people started to realize how much POWER the raiders had now due to the advantages given by leveling a combat class.

Over time towns died, or evolved. Then new towns were made in the image of those evolved. They changed to keep the bad guys out, and the good guys in with items protected. How can you expect someone to come out of their secure home to die at your hands?

Sure the Heroes config give an advantage to some classes more than others, that's why we are still making changes to balance, did you think we were done?

What if it was balanced? You come with a party of five, and the town has only two people online. Even if the classes were balanced, would you still expect them to leave their homes knowing they would be outnumbered by hostiles?
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
I believe this is a side effect of the entire Zeal map. At the start of Zeal, towns built like Sanctum map. They were pretty. Then people started to realize how much POWER the raiders had now due to the advantages given by leveling a combat class.

Over time towns died, or evolved. Then new towns were made in the image of those evolved. They changed to keep the bad guys out, and the good guys in with items protected. How can you expect someone to come out of their secure home to die at your hands?

Sure the Heroes config give an advantage to some classes more than others, that's why we are still making changes to balance, did you think we were done?

What if it was balanced? You come with a party of five, and the town has only two people online. Even if the classes were balanced, would you still expect them to leave their homes knowing they would be outnumbered by hostiles?
If they were good they could have a chance at least, I could EASILY 1 v 2/3 on sanctum
 

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
If they were good they could have a chance at least, I could EASILY 1 v 2/3 on sanctum

How can you expect random towns you come across to have good pvpers in it? Reputation maybe, but my point is that this isn't the server's fault.

The only thing the server can do to change this is to outlaw domes, and outlaw one-builng-stupid-rainbow-retarded-pollypocket-shoebox-stupid-towns.

That would be a nightmare of administration, and then you really can't stop them from making secure houses, or a united town basement that outsiders can't get into using LWCs and the region.
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
How can you expect random towns you come across to have good pvpers in it? Reputation maybe, but my point is that this isn't the server's fault.

The only thing the server can do to change this is to outlaw domes, and outlaw one-builng-stupid-rainbow-retarded-pollypocket-shoebox-stupid-towns.

That would be a nightmare of administration, and then you really can't stop them from making secure houses, or a united town basement that outsiders can't get into using LWCs and the region.
It's the mindset created by STRONK classes that makes people do that.
 

Aetosion

Obsidian
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
We have no intention to remove Heroes from the primary server for Herocraft. Is it possible we could have a side server with old school rules? yes. Will it ever be in the spotlight as the primary? no, probably not.
Amen!​
I would also would not be interested in playing on a server like Sanctum. Zeal was a huge improvement in my eyes, and Dragongarde is good as well.​
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
That's the community change, back in Sanctum we had 200+ Active and well known players or more. At this point, I don't mean anything towards staff or Kain, but the ban system is flawed in my eyes at this point. Not to mention names, but many players have done things that would have had them banned perma rather than 3 days meaning anyone not super crazy over status could care less about breaking a rule or two.

Mind you, being Fair keeps the player base alive longer and has other pros, but people simply don't fear the rules anymore and I feel that if they did we might get our Sanctum feel back without losing the heroes. Just a suggestion though, like I said, both ways have pros and cons.
The most players we ever had on at one time was 90 on sanctum and previous maps. :)

I think a lot of the township issues reside in the fact that its hard being a mayor this map than any other map combined. A lot less power granted to mayors that I hope to change soon.
 

Joka10

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Though I've had many oppurtunities to join Herocraft, I did not take one until this past January as the wonderful server which I had been playing drifted away into oblivion. I joined Herocraft because of the Heroes plugin. I only play one server at a time, and once I get into it, I don't leave unless something happens that completely drives me away or the server dies. In order for a server to interest me, it has to offer something original (in terms of MC). I played many servers that we would call generic today. These were all in the very early days of MC SMP, in which basically everything was original. I played a few more following that, but they bored me because they had nothing new and I didn't stay very long. I didn't think of Herocraft at the time, and ended up joining a zombie survival server which I stuck with until January. Original? No, of course not. But original in terms of MC? Definitely, it was the first. When it died due to some very bad luck, I came here. Herocraft is a hardcore MMORPG with awesome skills and classes. Original? Not at all. But original in terms of MC? Yes, and though there are some a bit like it, none are as good. Heroes drew me to this server. It is why this server is original and unique in these days where all MC servers seem bland and monochromatic. If Herocraft were fairly vanilla with towns and spells hidden in dungeons today, it would not interest me. A year ago when that was fairly new, if I had seen it, I would've probably joined. But today, too many other servers offer similar things.

Herocraft seems to me to be a pioneer server. When it came out, it was pretty normal save for some newer plugins. As other servers got plugins like those, Herocraft advanced far ahead. There was never any competition for the community that gathered to HC because no other server could offer what HC had. If Herocraft stopped doing new and interesting things, it would still be big for a while, but then other servers would catch up. If someone, oh, say, lost all their gold on an HC like that, they might just start over elsewhere, whereas most people in a situation like that in this HC would stay because there is nowhere else like it. Even smaller things than losing gold would drive people away because there would be nothing really keeping them here. Communities would spread out through the servers like that hypothetical Herocraft, grow bored, be attracted to another server that advanced forward, and the community of the hypothetical HC and the other stagnant servers would be spread so thin that (with the exception of fully self-sufficient servers) not enough donations went to each server and they'd all die out.

Herocraft changes rapidly and drastically, it seems. If it didn't do that, it would stagnate, and the community would diffuse throughout other servers that caught up with the hypothetical Herocraft. This server has been around like... two years. This is only possible because Herocraft always manages to have something new and appealing that no one else has. Herocraft would be dead if it did not advance from what it was in Sanctum. Sanctum was new and original then, but it would not be now. True, most servers who stagnated at a period where they were similar to what Sanctum was are dead, so bringing back a Sanctum server would be original for a while. But if people saw that that was popular, they'd make clones (easily, too, because similar plugins to what existed then are readily available now, and many good builders are ready to work), and the community would spread thin. Herocraft would have to advance again to survive.

I don't know if Sanctum or now is more fun. I am fairly certain, though, that if HC went back to and stayed at a Sanctum-era level, it would not last very long. Are all the advances that have happened good? No, surely not. I think MA is a very detrimental thing, really. But many of them are good, and they've kept the server alive.

Another issue: A very large portion of the HC community joined post-Sanctum, and even post-Zeal. They joined because of something HC offered at that time. There is a certain number of people who stopped playing but still watch HC looking for changes they like, but not nearly all the people who don't come ingame anymore still monitor HC. Reverting to Sanctum would drive off many of the users who joined after it (a large portion of server funding). You'd have to assume that the amount of people who would become active again would be enough to make up for that funding loss, and that assumption is probably wrong. A lot of people, when they quit a server, really quit it.

I joined in mid-January. I did not play Sanctum. I don't know if it was more fun or not. All of the above is based on my knowledge of HC today, of what other servers/plugins exist, and my limited knowledge of what HC was in Sanctum. I am very possibly wrong, but please at least consider what I've said.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Another one of those ''Omg change it back to the way Sanctum/Zeal was because PvP sucks now'' threads.

I love the Heroes plug-in, it makes things difficult to do. Instead of anyone being able to wear the best armour available, you now have to WORK for the power; which is more hardcore than what it used to be like. The plug-in introduced restrictions, such as the inability, for some, to use pistons and certain tools. I like this, it means that players can't live in their own ''Bubble World'' like they used to be able to in Sanctum.

Remember how many LWC'd/regioned houses there were in Sanctum? With everything locked up because people have unlimited LWCs? How was that fair? That wasn't fun at all, that just ment the top-donators were OP to the extreme. It divided the community, which was awful. Now, people, with different skills and abilities, have to work together to get things done.

Without the Heroes plug-in, we would all be able to wear the best armour, make the best potions, enchant the best tools and build the greatest traps. There would be no economy because people would be able to make things themselves.

What i'm saying is that we should love the Heroes plug-in. It hasn't weakened PvP, the community has weakened PvP. So what if people stay in their town for protection from raiders? That happened in Sanctum and Zeal, it is nothing new in this map. As for border hopping, that happened in Zeal too. As for PvP, there was hardly any in Sanctum, as I remember. I was hardly ever attacked, and I spent almost all my time in the wild.

The concept of ''town walls'' and people ''staying in their towns for defence'' has been around for ages. If players want protection, they want protection. They should'nt have to come out and fight if they don't want to. Like Dielan said, if they arn't strong enough, why the hell would they attack? It was like this in Sanctum and in Zeal. Not just now.

PvPers get plenty of PvP. I see it all the time.
 

HolyRane

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
In your mothers pants
Another one of those ''Omg change it back to the way Sanctum/Zeal was because PvP sucks now'' threads.

I love the Heroes plug-in, it makes things difficult to do. Instead of anyone being able to wear the best armour available, you now have to WORK for the power; which is more hardcore than what it used to be like. The plug-in introduced restrictions, such as the inability, for some, to use pistons and certain tools. I like this, it means that players can't live in their own ''Bubble World'' like they used to be able to in Sanctum.

Remember how many LWC'd/regioned houses there were in Sanctum? With everything locked up because people have unlimited LWCs? How was that fair? That wasn't fun at all, that just ment the top-donators were OP to the extreme. It divided the community, which was awful. Now, people, with different skills and abilities, have to work together to get things done.

Without the Heroes plug-in, we would all be able to wear the best armour, make the best potions, enchant the best tools and build the greatest traps. There would be no economy because people would be able to make things themselves.

What i'm saying is that we should love the Heroes plug-in. It hasn't weakened PvP, the community has weakened PvP. So what if people stay in their town for protection from raiders? That happened in Sanctum and Zeal, it is nothing new in this map. As for border hopping, that happened in Zeal too. As for PvP, there was hardly any in Sanctum, as I remember. I was hardly ever attacked, and I spent almost all my time in the wild.

The concept of ''town walls'' and people ''staying in their towns for defence'' has been around for ages. If players want protection, they want protection. They should'nt have to come out and fight if they don't want to. Like Dielan said, if they arn't strong enough, why the hell would they attack? It was like this in Sanctum and in Zeal. Not just now.

PvPers get plenty of PvP. I see it all the time.

It takes a lot of effort to find pvp nowadays.
 

kevinlive

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Location
Norway, Vardø
Dielan has a huge point in what he has said.
"You come with a party of five, and the town has only two people online. Even if the classes were balanced, would you still expect them to leave their homes knowing they would be outnumbered by hostiles?".

This, is why PvP is worse in DG than it was in Zeal, it has nothing to do with the new PvP system - it is how the townsystem/community works at the moment.
In Zeal towns was huge, and almost every town was a part of a kingdom. You would always have a ton of people online in a single town.

In DG however, towns are small and scattered, and to my knowledge there is only one real kingdom left - XD.
In Zeal we had SSS, KRS, KOE, KILL, and many other kingdoms. What HC needs is not a sanctum era, change in Heroes or something like that. We need to centralise, in DG there is way too many small and inacive towns, we need more kingdoms, more huge towns - and then, maybe next time TC shows up on a towns doorstep, there won't be two members inside who's twidling their fingers and waiting for them to leave. Maybe there will be 10 people in there, who decides to charge out - remember, in mc you will never pvp if the odds are on the other side.

We need urbanization.
(also, the towns in Zeal was way closer to spawn. In DG they are all spread out in a 3500r map).
 

weynard

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Langenhagen (Hanover)
I love the Heroes plug-in, it makes things difficult to do. Instead of anyone being able to wear the best armour available, you now have to WORK for the power; which is more hardcore than what it used to be like. The plug-in introduced restrictions, such as the inability, for some, to use pistons and certain tools. I like this, it means that players can't live in their own ''Bubble World'' like they used to be able to in Sanctum.

What the fuck is hardcore about grinding a bazillion mobs just so that you can use the 1337 skills? That's just boring. Hardcore is being ambushed with all your gold on the way to the bank. Also, I mentioned keeping professions, which means there still would be a reason to grind for you.

Remember how many LWC'd/regioned houses there were in Sanctum? With everything locked up because people have unlimited LWCs? How was that fair? That wasn't fun at all, that just ment the top-donators were OP to the extreme. It divided the community, which was awful. Now, people, with different skills and abilities, have to work together to get things done.

I don't think I even once mentioned LWC's or regions in my post. You could even be the first person to bring this up. Why?

Without the Heroes plug-in, we would all be able to wear the best armour, make the best potions, enchant the best tools and build the greatest traps. There would be no economy because people would be able to make things themselves.

See above. I agree, though, on how HORRIBLE the Sanctum economy was. Almost like we didn't have any, right? Right?!

What i'm saying is that we should love the Heroes plug-in. It hasn't weakened PvP, the community has weakened PvP. So what if people stay in their town for protection from raiders? That happened in Sanctum and Zeal, it is nothing new in this map. As for border hopping, that happened in Zeal too. As for PvP, there was hardly any in Sanctum, as I remember. I was hardly ever attacked, and I spent almost all my time in the wild.

I can't say you're wrong here, but I will say the balance between building stuff and killing stuff was pretty good on Sanctum and also on Zeal. Nothing a different ruleset couldn't optimize.

The concept of ''town walls'' and people ''staying in their towns for defence'' has been around for ages. If players want protection, they want protection. They should'nt have to come out and fight if they don't want to. Like Dielan said, if they arn't strong enough, why the hell would they attack? It was like this in Sanctum and in Zeal. Not just now.

You join a hardcore server, you get yo ass beat. Also, you just explained how Heroes didn't fix this very frustrating part of PVP. Like I said, introducing the combat classes did nothing but making the gameplay grindy and complicated.

PvPers get plenty of PvP. I see it all the time.
 

victim130

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
The most players we ever had on at one time was 90 on sanctum and previous maps. :)

I think a lot of the township issues reside in the fact that its hard being a mayor this map than any other map combined. A lot less power granted to mayors that I hope to change soon.
I only meant we had a large base of well known members instead of a bunch of newbs that quit in a week.
 

Fire3

Iron
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
I only meant we had a large base of well known members instead of a bunch of newbs that quit in a week.
The bar of entry for new players is quite high with this RPG system in place. You have to grind so much to catch up. New players won't have any emotional attachment to the server. It's difficult to just start grinding. You don't really want to put all that time into it, because you don't know if it's what you are looking for. You can't judge the server until you are max level of your class, but at that point you've already put so much time into it. New players just won't commit to the grind.
 
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