Suggestion [General] The Server Needs a Revamp (Especially For PVP)

[Jrr_]

As I said before. Recruiting Admins and Mods is a process. Kain is reasonably careful of who he gives Power too. We can't just go out of the blue and pick someone. Its a process.

I never said it wasn't a process and hard to find an admin, I simply said an Event Admin role should be made.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

"Because from what I hear, the server was originally made for PVP"

Just because it was made originally for PVP doesn't mean it should stay that way. Our Modern day mouthwashes used to be Cheap Floorcleaners, that doesn't mean it should have stayed Floorcleaner, I want good breath dammit!

"Advertising to a wider group of people is what caused this conflict in the first place, and now we suddenly have a little war between the PVP players who have been around for longer, and the PVE players who only really stay on for maybe 3-5 months then drop off."

I've CLEARLY been here more than 3-4 Months, Same for all of your old PVE townies who are still around to this day. That statement is not a reflection of reality. Sure, PVP people tend to stick around, but so do the PVE's. Why you implying that we are all wishy washy man?

"Most of the Vets left due to updates geared towards the PVE community"

There where quite a lot of other Reasons for the people leaving besides that. I'll leave it out though because frankly I won't want this to get Toxic

"IMO this whole thing could have been avoided if adventure was finished way back when,"

It would have helped if you hadn't quit Adventure Team. *OOOOOOHHHH* ( You walked into that one man )

But hey, Adventure is a process. We are still working to make it Awesome. Give us time

"All of the PVE updates were removed from live"

Uh... thats a bit bold. Live is called Live for a reason. Its not called "PVP"

"hen PVEs could have their Adventure and PVPs could have their teamfights"

I don't see why both just can't exist on the Same map. I'm not saying PVP is horrible or that we shouldn't appeal to them. But we can't just make it ONLY appealing for PVP people. We need to think of Ideas that don't force other Groups out. For any Game to be successful, they need to appeal to a lot of people. Appealing to as many as we can is a better idea than doing just PVP.



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"I agree that possibly advertising to a broader group of people might improve our numbers more, but the problem is we've tried."

Uh...

We pretty much have advertized for the same exact thing. Lets branch out a bit.

"The server has always had very deep roots in PVP and the RPG community"

"and the RPG community". PVE is part of that community. Same with "PVE, Roleplay, Builders"

"t has always supressed another specific player group, mostly the previous majority, the PVP player community"

Uh... as I explained with Light, Change is ok. Also we aren't supressing you. Your the ones doing that to the PVE community

"that shows that the player base that has been edged out of the server from the past is indeed the PVP player base"

Uh... ^^ Above

The bottom line is that although RPG can involve PVE, changes in previous maps have negatively impacted the large lively majority PVP player base that existed before the changes were implemented. Every large PVP town back then had players who did enjoy building, making money, and didn't enjoy PVP that much, but they did at least defend their towns and PVPed occasionally. The majority of players right now absolute detest PVP and they do everything in their powers to go about their day without having to experience one of the main aspects of Heroes, PVP.

PVE was ALWAYS a minority before the changes, and people enjoyed doing less PVP, and enjoyed the more passive way of playing the game and they were still happy with how the server was. They never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail. s of playing the game were still happy with how the server was. They never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail than would be achieved with people sitting behind their town walls all day, chatting away in o chat.

 

[devotedworker]

The bottom line is that although RPG can involve PVE, changes in previous maps have negatively impacted the large lively majority PVP player base that existed before the changes were implemented. Every large PVP town back then had players who did enjoy building, making money, and didn't enjoy PVP that much, but they did at least defend their towns and PVPed occasionally. The majority of players right now absolute detest PVP and they do everything in their powers to go about their day without having to experience one of the main aspects of Heroes, PVP.

PVE was ALWAYS a minority before the changes, and people enjoyed doing less PVP, and enjoyed the more passive way of playing the game and they were still happy with how the server was. They never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail. s of playing the game were still happy with how the server was. They never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail than would be achieved with people sitting behind their town walls all day, chatting away in o chat.

"The bottom line is that although RPG can involve PVE, changes in previous maps have negatively impacted the large lively majority PVP player base that existed before the changes were implemented."

Again, Change is ok. Baking soda can be used for Baking instead of Toothpaste.

"The majority of players right now absolute detest PVP and they do everything in their powers to go about their day without having to experience one of the main aspects of Heroes, PVP. "

Thats probably a GOOD indication that making changes in PVP's favor will upset "A Majority of the Players"

"people enjoyed doing less PVP, and enjoyed the more passive way of playing the game and they were still happy with how the server was. They never complained"

Having a game where people don't complain is a good thing.

"hey never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail than would be achieved with people sitting behind their town walls all day, chatting away in o chat"

Whats wrong with that? Why not let people do just that. It makes them happy to play without PVP. Why force them to play it.
I suggest that Features should be made to Complement and help the PVP playerbase, but not when its infringing on all other Playbases. So far I've yet to see any ideas that does that.

 

[devotedworker]

I never said it wasn't a process and hard to find an admin, I simply said an Event Admin role should be made.

Well thats a good idea. I see no reason not too ^_^

 

[RegularHumanMode]

In response to "Why not advertise to a wider group of people" and "Why make the map focused on one thing": I agree that possibly advertising to a broader group of people might improve our numbers more, but the problem is we've tried. When we introduced PVE onto the server (a large minecraft player group) it was met with more negative reviews than positive reviews from the majority of the player base. The reason why? The server has always had very deep roots in PVP and the RPG community.

Whenever we have had tweaked the server, and the map to conform to every player group, PVE, Roleplay, Builders, etc. It has always supressed another specific player group, mostly the previous majority, the PVP player community. The addition of PVE to the server was detrimental to the PVP community and dozens and dozens of PVP players permanently left the server because of it. This leads to our situation now where people in favor of PVE have found it easier and easier to live their lives with little to no PVP interaction.

I mean I'm all for roleplayers, builders, but when the majority of the people playing try to avoid PVP like the plague, that shows that the player base that has been edged out of the server from the past is indeed the PVP player base. It shows that simply appealing to everyone clashes, and usually doesn't work as nicely as you'd want it to.

I agree with most of this. If you are going to add content/change server priorities certain groups will be edged out, and that is unavoidable unless you can somehow leave the original sections untouched. This is essentially impossible unless you just create an entirely separate server for different player groups, but even that will draw slightly away from original map's population.

The three groups anyone cares about in MC are PvPers, PvEers, and Builders.

PvP is fairly easy to encourage, but difficult to make rewarding while keeping balance. For full PvP what is needed would be better raiding (which is being added later on). This is really a must have. If a server decides to be PvP, but dissuades players from raiding it will eventually lose its community. Again, this is being added and I think the concepts from it I've heard are pretty awesome. The other aspect is just having random encounters in the world. The best way for this is probably just decreasing the amount of herogates to one per continent as well as a spawn/home warp with long recharge in order to increase player traffic on roads. There's not much else to do other than decreasing the size of the map (increasing player per m^2 ratio increases PvP).

PvEers are fairly easy. Give them non-PvP areas in order to do dungeons. The problem the server faces is that the people who prefer PvE don't want to PvP, but are forced to live in a PvP map. This creates all sorts of issues. Part of me actually liked the previous system of a PvP and PvE continents. I was not around at the end of the map, but from what I heard the problem was that too many people would stay in the PvE continent. Again with the math, if you decrease the size you increase the PvP. That's really the best way keep everyone happy without favoring one and keeping everyone on the same map.

Builders are a bit trickier. They go well with PvE, but not PvP. Personally, I am hoping that the Creative map will be up when I have time to play on the server again. That should appease most builders.

Someone also mentioned something about an event, and so I have one question: what do you guys want to see in a PvP event? Tournaments are only good for a couple hours, and I am personally not a fan of loot drops (I don't know how you feel). So any suggestions?

TL;DR: Just about all that can/should be changed is going to be.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

"The bottom line is that although RPG can involve PVE, changes in previous maps have negatively impacted the large lively majority PVP player base that existed before the changes were implemented."

Again, Change is ok. Baking soda can be used for Baking instead of Toothpaste.

"The majority of players right now absolute detest PVP and they do everything in their powers to go about their day without having to experience one of the main aspects of Heroes, PVP. "

Thats probably a GOOD indication that making changes in PVP's favor will upset "A Majority of the Players"

"people enjoyed doing less PVP, and enjoyed the more passive way of playing the game and they were still happy with how the server was. They never complained"

Having a game where people don't complain is a good thing.

"hey never complained, because they knew that PVP was something that effectively ran the server back then and it gave the server much more depth and detail than would be achieved with people sitting behind their town walls all day, chatting away in o chat"

Whats wrong with that? Why not let people do just that. It makes them happy to play without PVP. Why force them to play it.
I suggest that Features should be made to Complement and help the PVP playerbase, but not when its infringing on all other Playbases. So far I've yet to see any ideas that does that.

Like what I'm trying to say is, that I'm trying to bring back the PVP glory and fun from the previous maps. Obviously due to changes that helped the PVE community it negatively impacted the PVP community making a majority population, into a minority dwindling one. I'm trying to look for ways to help improve the PVP on Herocraft and to bring it back. I think we can both agree that PVP and PVE clash. PVE players want to have a PVP off experience and do their own thing without needing to PVP and fight. PVP players need others to fight. Now if everyone's sitting in their town behind a wall and a trench, in their blocked up houses, who are the PVP players going to fight? The same 5 people who aren't scared of PVP?

The matter of the fact is, if PVE players are enjoying themselves blocked up in their houses trying to avoid any ounce of PVP there is. Then that heavily affects the PVP population. Because there's no one to fight anymore. Thats why PVP and PVE has always clashed in one way or the other. And right now currently, PVE players are definitely having fun, building, farming, at the safety of their homes without needing to PVP. But us PVP players, we run around spawn ./a j ing every second with the same 5 people, because thats the only PVP we can find nowadays.

PVE directly affects the PVP community in a bad way, and thats simply a fact.

 

[LordZelkova]

-Snip-

And PvP can affect PvE in a very negative way too.
Last map I started a PvP town, one of the few ones that wasn't a continuation of an old group. My town wasn't a box, never was meant to be.
Within a month most of my town moved to PvE and rarely came back to PvP, why? Because the PvP groups would camp out town and Death Chests for easily an Hour. We were tracked incredibly often and when we went to level we would be murdered. If we didn't port to spawn and go to PvE to level instead we died. Trying to level and PvP is impossible. There is no way an early group of lvl 5's can take on a party of 5 Masters.

There are plenty of issues around, and I'd rather we discuss changes like Rules/Events/Incentives instead of just arguing what who's point is and who the majority of the server is.

 

[joshtsai]

Hey where's my name in the list of pvpers? I was a manager in Rangpur! And in AD/LO!

Anyways, on to the main point

Certainly the server has changed from what it once was a few maps ago. And honestly in my opinion there can exists plentiful pvp and raids along side building and RP. Look back at the towns that existed in Bastion. I'll take LO as an example because the towns were big. This was a kingdom and community that enjoyed all aspects the server had to offer and has been around for many maps. Along with winning a few pvp tournaments, and attempting to host events of their own, LO also had towns that were good to look at, as well as fun to raid, why else would every other pvp group be there so often, the land was perfect for fighting in, as well as having people willing to fight. These focal points that people could meet up and duke it out in was crucial to the develpoment of team fighting. This brings me to another point and one that a few others might have touched on.

To make it easier here for people who either does not pvp or was not around for the fights a few maps ago, I will go into a section that defines, what kind of pvp is around today, the pvp of old, and the small things that have been put into place on the more recent
maps

What is pvp today? Pvp is a group of ragtag veterans, the remnants of the old power groups. These guys have the experience with some of the most notorious or even noble groups brought together because of the love of action.

Historical pvp was always in favor to the group with the numbers. I can still remember when the noobs of LO was a decent fighting force, striking fear to even the most veteran pvpers. Back then parties or 10 might not have been enough for all the low leveled noobs to join in on the fight.

So what kinds of thins are in place today? It was already mentioned in the post but most people into pvp run around the map for a few hours, get bored, then skirmish with the same people who play the same classes who use the same strategies. Pretty much the winner ends up being determined by the team with a better random composition and not really much by skill or experience. This can be good or bad but with the same people everytime, often everyone in the same teamspeak channel, so everyone just ends up knowing what the other team will do, it gets boring.


So what do I think is the fix? I agree that back then the server was clearly more successful and populated. While I'm not sure what factors led to this, the fact that more people played minecraft a few years ago or the fact that people had more fun with the server in past maps, I think the real issue stems from another thing that is lacking in the map today.

It isn't incentive or any other tangible thing but rather the community and what is being formed in the friend groups today.

I can't pinpoint it exactly why it has changed but the fact of the matter is towns are different from what they were before.

I think all of the differences in the server today all stem from this change in the community and how people get together and team up on the server. With the multitude of towns all over I think that people are opting to live in smaller towns/communies than from the big ones from before.

I am a big proponent of this style of town and I am sad that isn't around today. The major benefit from these towns was because there were so many people, it left room for people to explore all that the server had to offer, allowed for people to explore their interests and helped new players by introducing them to what the server was about and the many different types of it. New players aren't being introduced to the many fun things on the server, pvp being the biggest one. Eventually they will join a town/level in the dungeons out of need but pvp gets the shaft in this situation.

We can see this from the historical growth of players who came out of these communities. The most veteran players, and the most skilled players all came from strong communities where they made friendships, grew, and probably learned a little about themselves.

In these towns, if you didn't want to pvp you didn't have too, but say you wanted to build but there were raiders trying to kill you. These towns had the ability to gather up a fighting force and get rid of the raiders. And to be honest as someone who enjoys pvp on this server. I really don't care about gear or any other items that I might be able to get. Everything on the server I can either make myself or buy. But I'm in it for the thrill that you can't get from fighting a mob- no matter how much mythic mob coding it has behind it.

At the end of the day, pve will always be minecraft pve. No mob can make those decisions that a pvper must anticipate to defeat his enemies. There is no focus of a player in pve, there is no strategy such as, when to use bash to interrupt a wizard's mega bolt to save your friends, or a shield reflect on a bolt to send it right back to the sender, or even any crazy thing that a dude is doing that's unorthodox and takes you by surprise. All of it isnt possible with computers just due to the limitations of both the game and AI code in general. No matter what, player vs player combat/action/anything is always better versus computers. It isn't interesting to watch a chess master beat a bunch of computers as it is master vs master. In fact we can look at what's popular on TV right now. Sports, ESPN, etc are exciting because it's players vs other players. Despite the odds and statistics people want to watch, and participate as part of that thrill.

Damn that got off topic but does well in why I think pvp is a good thing for this server.

Back on topic.


Big towns were a good thing in growing the community and increasing the popularity and population of this server. I came here because a player told me that the best played on here. The best fighters, the best builders, and the best people.

So what's my idea?

Put in things to encourage others to get together and play. Having diverse community's within towns will help both new and older players.


Also small tangent, I don't believe that pvp=no one can build. Look at the towns that were able to be created. Huge massive things that were built on the dead bodies of pvpers fighting in the blood stained fields below.


No TL;DR
I'm also on vacation atm, hopefully this thread will keep going so I can properly reply to the posts made here when I get back.


Remember to keep this thread civil. Won't want to have to stop a thread from going just because a few sour worms messed it up.


Edit #1: I realize my little thing on current towns might be taken as insulting to those running their towns on this map. Please note that I didn't mean this but I was merely contrasting the towns in say Bastion- where the towns were diverse and had players who enjoyed may different things to the towns today which are usually have limited passions, as in they might only exist to build or just hide when threats come there way.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

And PvP can affect PvE in a very negative way too.
Last map I started a PvP town, one of the few ones that wasn't a continuation of an old group. My town wasn't a box, never was meant to be.
Within a month most of my town moved to PvE and rarely came back to PvP, why? Because the PvP groups would camp out town and Death Chests for easily an Hour. We were tracked incredibly often and when we went to level we would be murdered. If we didn't port to spawn and go to PvE to level instead we died. Trying to level and PvP is impossible. There is no way an early group of lvl 5's can take on a party of 5 Masters.

There are plenty of issues around, and I'd rather we discuss changes like Rules/Events/Incentives instead of just arguing what who's point is and who the majority of the server is.

I agree that PVP can affect PVE, but with the changes on the current map, has that really happened? I mean all of us dedicated PVPers were all level 5, leveling at one point. I mean it was harder when the only way to level was in swamps in PVP-On, if raiders came you'd have your townies protect you. It was exhilarating and proved to give the game a good sense of adventure and danger. PVEers just need mobs to satisfy themselves. Add a towny plugin, dungeon systems, and custom items/drops, and its better than ever for them. PVPers in the other hand need players to fight. If the majority of players are sheltered in their PVP-Off dungeons, and they're impossible to raid towns/undercities it COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of PVP on the server and it kills the community. There are so many ways that players on the server can currently PVE without worry of being attacked or being involved with any type of PVP period.

Now onto the possible rules we can implement/tweak:

• Walls can't be over (15 or 20 blocks high)
• Trenches can exist, but they'd need to be filled with water (or lava if it truly fits the theme of the town)
• Floating structures can exist, but they need to be easily accessible by players who aren't in your town. (Pillaring up 100 blocks doesn't count as easily accessible)
• Floating structures cannot be at an unreasonable height (I'm thinking 50 to 100 for limit)
• A certain percent of your town should be above ground and open (Rough percentage, not down to the block) (Prevents fully underground towns, etc)
• Traps can exist but they can't impede the only ways into a town/near a town (A corridor is the ONLY way into a town, or to get near a town, and the floor is a trap. That'd be illegal)
• Absolutely no roofs over the town, unless it incorporates the natural landscape and as long as it follows the rule where a certain percent of your town should be above ground and open

There are probably many more rule tweaks and new rules that can be implemented but these are just a few related to construction of towns that would help PVP and raiding, they also make HC less like Player v Town and more like Player v Player. The "certain percent of town should be above ground and open" rule might not be completely necessary if the raiding thing Kain was working on is implemented, but it'd still be a nice way to prevent completely underground towns.

also shoutout to #4 best asian pvper on HC @joshtsai

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I agree that PVP can affect PVE, but with the changes on the current map, has that really happened? I mean all of us dedicated PVPers were all level 5, leveling at one point. I mean it was harder when the only way to level was in swamps in PVP-On, if raiders came you'd have your townies protect you. It was exhilarating and proved to give the game a good sense of adventure and danger. PVEers just need mobs to satisfy themselves. Add a towny plugin, dungeon systems, and custom items/drops, and its better than ever for them. PVPers in the other hand need players to fight. If the majority of players are sheltered in their PVP-Off dungeons, and they're impossible to raid towns/undercities it COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of PVP on the server and it kills the community. There are so many ways that players on the server can currently PVE without worry of being attacked or being involved with any type of PVP period.

Now onto the possible rules we can implement/tweak:

• Walls can't be over (15 or 20 blocks high)
• Trenches can exist, but they'd need to be filled with water (or lava if it truly fits the theme of the town)
• Floating structures can exist, but they need to be easily accessible by players who aren't in your town. (Pillaring up 100 blocks doesn't count as easily accessible)
• Floating structures cannot be at an unreasonable height (I'm thinking 50 to 100 for limit)
• A certain percent of your town should be above ground and open (Rough percentage, not down to the block) (Prevents fully underground towns, etc)
• Traps can exist but they can't impede the only ways into a town/near a town (A corridor is the ONLY way into a town, or to get near a town, and the floor is a trap. That'd be illegal)
• Absolutely no roofs over the town, unless it incorporates the natural landscape and as long as it follows the rule where a certain percent of your town should be above ground and open

There are probably many more rule tweaks and new rules that can be implemented but these are just a few related to construction of towns that would help PVP and raiding. The "certain percent of town should be above ground and open" rule might not be completely necessary if the raiding thing Kain was working on is implemented, but it'd still be a nice way to prevent completely underground towns.

Why not just shorten that down to "Towns cannot be impenetrable"?

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Why not just shorten that down to "Towns cannot be impenetrable"?

Cause learning from the current rules, broad statements like that are never enforced and are hard to enforce as well as the fact that they just have so many loopholes tbh.

Prime example: Frost and Regius
shoutout to @TheAncientTeam 's 200 block high flying fortress with propellers that don't even follow grade 11 laws of physics.

 

[LordZelkova]

Now onto the possible rules we can implement/tweak:

• Walls can't be over (15 or 20 blocks high)
• Trenches can exist, but they'd need to be filled with water (or lava if it truly fits the theme of the town)
• Floating structures can exist, but they need to be easily accessible by players who aren't in your town. (Pillaring up 100 blocks doesn't count as easily accessible)
• Floating structures cannot be at an unreasonable height (I'm thinking 50 to 100 for limit)
• A certain percent of your town should be above ground and open (Rough percentage, not down to the block) (Prevents fully underground towns, etc)
• Traps can exist but they can't impede the only ways into a town/near a town (A corridor is the ONLY way into a town, or to get near a town, and the floor is a trap. That'd be illegal)
• Absolutely no roofs over the town, unless it incorporates the natural landscape and as long as it follows the rule where a certain percent of your town should be above ground and open

There are probably many more rule tweaks and new rules that can be implemented but these are just a few related to construction of towns that would help PVP and raiding. The "certain percent of town should be above ground and open" rule might not be completely necessary if the raiding thing Kain was working on is implemented, but it'd still be a nice way to prevent completely underground towns.

These are the posts that can get things done.

Let's talk about the rules:

1: They already cannot be 30+ without a design reason, they are rarely allowed past that 30 mark however. Walls also cannot be black cobble walls, they need designs.
2: Fair enough, 10 wide pits to bedrock kinda suck and usually look ugly
3: This is gonna be a very shaky rule. Like many chat rules now, it'd be up to the Staff looking at the build to decide if it was "easily" reachable. What's easily reachable to you? Dragoons jump? Grappling Hook? 50 block pillar? 20?
4: Again, who's to say what's reasonable? Is it Y=100 or 100 above ground level?
5: What %? So part of my town is now above ground. It's 3 small houses no one lives in and a small building with an LWC'd door and a ladder down. I just defeated the rule without breaking it.
6: Eh. I like the idea of the Defenders having the advantage in the sense of Traps or being able to lock off locations. I'd rather more Siege tools than restrictions on Traps or Designs
7: Agreed. Box towns used to (I thought theys till were, though I can't find any written proof) illegal, at least at one point.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

These are the posts that can get things done.

Let's talk about the rules:

1: They already cannot be 30+ without a design reason, they are rarely allowed past that 30 mark however. Walls also cannot be black cobble walls, they need designs.
2: Fair enough, 10 wide pits to bedrock kinda suck and usually look ugly
3: This is gonna be a very shaky rule. Like many chat rules now, it'd be up to the Staff looking at the build to decide if it was "easily" reachable. What's easily reachable to you? Dragoons jump? Grappling Hook? 50 block pillar? 20?
4: Again, who's to say what's reasonable? Is it Y=100 or 100 above ground level?
5: What %? So part of my town is now above ground. It's 3 small houses no one lives in and a small building with an LWC'd door and a ladder down. I just defeated the rule without breaking it.
6: Eh. I like the idea of the Defenders having the advantage in the sense of Traps or being able to lock off locations. I'd rather more Siege tools than restrictions on Traps or Designs
7: Agreed. Box towns used to (I thought theys till were, though I can't find any written proof) illegal, at least at one point.

Regarding the rules...

1: The reason why I want it substantially lower is because it'd make it easier for super jump and grapplinghook to be used to get over. Secondly it makes it easier for people pillaring up because you're not pillaring up 30 blocks. If I'm pillaring up 30 blocks to raid the town, knowing that I have to go back up by pillaring AGAIN, and destroy my pillar really just puts me off raiding the town completely. While you're destroying your pillar you're usually get attacked by the town defending as well, and it just really doesnt favor the raiders at all.

3 and 4: I agree its kinda shaky, I mean if you make the towns too low it destroys the effect of a floating town. I'm just looking for a height that wouldn't make raiding it a chore, and dangerous, even before you get to the townspeople. In the past the biggest thing I've hated while raiding is having to pillar up 100+ blocks while getting pelted by fireballs and arrows, and having to destroy a 100 block high pillar.
I don't have solid numbers for whats 'reasonable' but I feel like within the range of skills (grapplinghook, superjump) is a good base to determine whats a reasonable height and whats not.

5: I get what you're saying, I mean with this rule I'm just trying to prevent people from hiding underground completely in their towns. The idea of people having to walk out into the open to get to their town hall, or their farms, is just simply a lot better for PVP than being sheltered underground wherever you are in your town. (If someone has a way to improve this rule or add onto it feel free)

6: I see where you're coming from, I'm just trying to avoid incidents where the only way into a town is actually a trap. But I guess I should rephrase it to: Any traps that make a town completely inpenetrable and unraidable are illegal.

I mean I hope you can see where I'm getting with these rules. I just want to make raiding less like: Spend 30 minutes trying to get into the town, and realize that everything is blocked up and everyone is in their iron doored houses. And more like: Spend 2-5 minutes trying to get into the town, realizing no one is there, or no is going outside anytime soon, then leaving. Its makes raiding less like Player vs Town.

(Just an example: Like I've actually pillared up 150+ blocks to get into Frost, and I was pelted by arrows the whole time. After getting to the town, and realizing everyone's hiding inside I had to pillar back up 150+ blocks to my first pillar, and slowly destroy both my pillars while still, getting pelted by the town since I was in a vulnerable position trying to avoid getting a "grief ban".

 

[LordZelkova]

Like I've actually pillared up 150+ blocks to get into Frost, and I was pelted by arrows the whole time.

Nice touch with the town name.

And I do get it, I'm mostly trying to play Devil's advocate, because as we've seen, any gray areas can and usually can be abused.

1: I kinda wish the Pillar rule was changed. Making it up to the Raider to remove the pillar is kinda hard. They can't always get back to remove, so I generally agree with it.
3&4: Personally I feel 50 above ground level (Whatever level the average ground is at below) would be fair. Decent pillar amount, but superjump and mobility skills alleviate some of it.
5: I agree too, but as I showed, there are easy counters if they use 1% of their brain power
6: Much better. A giant pitfall covering 10 blocks being the only path in vs an arrow IC's or player detectors with netherack for fire traps. First one is unfair and can't be avoided, the second two offer challenge but can be overcome.

 

[Jrr_]

The mod schematica should be enabled, I tried using it once last map but found out it was blocked. It basically allows you to have the build virtally in front of your eyes and then click paste and you walk around and it places the blocks for you. Lets be honest towns on here are fucking ugly and we should be promoting nice builds on the server. Other servers don't block this mod as its helpful and adds great buildings to the server. I am fine with a 30-40 block wall as long as it looks nice! @Kainzo Would you consider this?

 

[LordZelkova]

The mod schematica should be enabled, I tried using it once last map but found out it was blocked. It basically allows you to have the build virtally in front of your eyes and then click paste and you walk around and it places the blocks for you. Lets be honest towns on here are fucking ugly and we should be promoting nice builds on the server. Other servers don't block this mod as its helpful and adds great buildings to the server. I am fine with a 30-40 block wall as long as it looks nice! @Kainzo Would you consider this?

Personally opposed to any sort of autobuild, a mod that mapped a build out however would be helpful.

 

[ytiggidmas]

Bastion veterans literally stopped playing due to lack of pvp. Not surprised it hasn't changed. The server needs a new system, and not a half assed one that happens every map wipe. It's ok though, cause Kainzo's vision will save the server. Let's not forget Herocraft isn't a pvp server!!!

Edit: Solution? Gather the vets, ask what they want. Then actually give it to them. Who would've known giving a community what it likes would keep it around?

 

[Kainzo]

Every map its the same thing, vets who joined on that map state it was the best map. The past is often viewed with rose tinted glasses, though that's not to say that improvements can't be made, but we must look forward not backwards. The vast majority of all servers are "mini-games" and this has changed the face of the Survival / Persistent server forever, we now compete on a much different play field than ever before.

Sanctum was the best for PVP, zeal killed it!
Zeal was the best for PVP, Dragongarde killed it!
Bastion was the best for PVP, haven killed it!

Every era has its own issues and challenges to face. The minecraft community isn't "new" its a fully fleshed involved thing that isn't just "one thing" anymore.

The Herocraft Network is aimed to please all of those play styles and wants within its server base, something that isn't an easy thing to do but I aim to take on. We started out as a simple town server with rpg elements and no pvp. (why? because it didnt exist). We've always brandished the hardcore tag and probably will always be "harder than normal" than other servers, simply because I feel that's how games should be played. The Herocraft plugin brands have pushed several thousands of servers to new heights and we constantly bug report and fix issues in the server software, our player-base is very well known amongst the developers and even Mojang.

I believe the Town/Survival inspired RPG server needs more fluid PVP, something I have been pushing for the last year or two. Something that isn't "easily" done. I believe un-impregnable towns, no grief rules, cheaper protections but high upkeep is something that will push this in the right way, because this will:
1) make sure active players have protection only,
2) have ways for raiders to get in
3) have an ebb and flow of items transferring.

The moronic statements saying that I don't have the vision for the future can just shut the fuck up. I've led this community for 5+ years and still somehow people play on the server and come back in droves. If you want to be overly negative, offensive and idiotic towards me, you will be doing so without a voice. I take criticism if its constructive, if its mindless bullshit, just go somewhere else, you won't be missed.

 

[ChesterH]

I haven't been able to read ALL the replies so forgive me if I repeat points already stated.

The fact is there is no real way to please everyone.

What do I mean when I say that?
Lets go back a few months. People wanted more content that Was Pvp related and -custom crafting was introduced. In order to get glowing items, you would need 200+ soul fuses (Only people who have been playing the game for a long time would be able to afford this). At that time, there was no "keep inventory" so ppl would complain that " oh what's then point of spending so much when I can lose it so easily?"

When the update came out and keeping your hand and armor was introduced, PVPers complain that now there was really no reward for killing and hunting down players.

"Then if a player can't afford a custom weapon why not buy a cheap one from the market and PVP?"

-Lvling is too hard (I believe ale stated)
-Some classes are Overpowered, I'm not going to restate this point due to a outbreak of fury, but the ranger can do 3 full hearts of dmg with one normal shot.) Not fun to pvp if u ask me.
-The map is big and it is pretty hard to fine ppl to PvP.

One update that was a huge step in the right direction was the arena update. Sure you don't get good loot. sure it may not be as intense. But allowing players to test their skills without feeling the risk of losing stuff and giving player the opportunity to have fun with friends is great.

All in all, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please both sides of the community (PVPers and PVEers)
And there should be NO CHANGE to the combat system execpt for some nerfs where demed appropriate.

Suggestions

The arena mode should implement a game mode where both gear and weapons are on the line. This would make PVPing a lot easier and remove the fact that "Pvp now doesn't drop good loot"

 

[Jrr_]

yep