Suggestion [Farming] - Horses and Breeding / Selling

[DavidKkz]

[Farming] - Horses and Breeding / Selling

Farmers:
Find and Tame horses.
Breed in better or worse stats.
Saddle and give the ownership.
Golden apple attributes increase stats in breeding.

Horses:
Fed to keep HP up and not die.
Can be fought on while in battle.
While leashed they can't be hit. [Stored]
Cannot die in PVP-Off zones.

Commands -
/skill scan - See the horses stats
/transfer steed [name] [souls] - while pointing at the horse in question for farmers. [Selling]
/give steed [name] - while pointing at the horse in question for players. [Cannot sell but can give]
The commands are pretty simple. You see the stats, and you can sell or give the horse away.
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Suggestion Notes:

What if horses could be found and tamed by farmers, possibly bred to be better or averaged out, and sold in the trade exchange to regular players? I've seen other posts on this, but I am not too fond of the idea that you can just summon horses.

Farmers are currently the only players to tame, saddle, and breed horses.
However, that is about all they can do. Not to mention the pain in the butt getting them to your place.

Combat -
I think horses being used could work in combat and give another level of hardcore mode.
Horses should be able to die in combat and / or while someone is riding it around.
If someone does not want to be killed by a horse, they should get one themselves.

Perhaps certain skills and weapons cannot be used while on a horse. (casting was interrupted by movement)
The archers aim would be horrible while moving... things like that.

Yes, some aspects of this may not work so it would have to be tested first.

Finding and Taming -
They are already hard to find, and a pain in the butt to get to your place.
I've blown up 2 horses and a donkey in my search. Barely able to find any more.

I believe finding a horse is a whole part of hardness in trying to get a horse farm. The farmer may even have to pay to locate a horse if someone has found one. They should also be the only ones to tame the horse for others.

Health Points -
I believe that owning a horse takes responsibility and your horse should be fed to keep it alive. Or else there could be a surplus in people owning horses and a horse would be a one time deal. Not very good for farmers who already lack economic structure.

Storage -
That and getting a horse they should have some type of "invulnerability" if you are not using them.
Therefore, if they are stored by lead on a fencepost, they will not be killed by raids to your place.

Name Tags -
Obviously anvils need to be fixed. That or engraving should actually work on them.
Perhaps farmers of a high level can engrave name tags?

Breeding -
I think breeding the horse for others using certain golden apples, and I know there are more than 6 different types of god apples, should be half the fun. I don't know what the different attributes each of the apples gave, but perhaps they could help different stats on the horses. Breeding in different looks are also part of the fun for farmers and for the buyers.

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Problems:
You can not Group Teleport a horse. It will teleport you back to your horse and the same spot. This might be good?
I don't know if horses can go into nether spawns like Nexus or transfer servers yet.

Currently I am told in PVP-Off areas, animals and others can be killed. This is horrible for farmers who want to sell.

Right now it says they average out after breeding but so far my 700hp horses keep producing 400hp horses.

Steeds seem to break after leaving the chunk sometimes...

Name Tags and Health seem to appear from far away through blocks randomly.
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[RagingDragon5]

Good ideas, but a couple of things.

Horses:
Fed to keep HP up and not die.
Can be fought on while in battle.
While leashed they can't be hit. [Stored]
Cannot die in PVP-Off zones

Feeding to keep alive: Seems like a good idea, should be for every animal. If possible to code.
PvP: I believe kainzo didn't want people to pvp with horses. I believe you will automatically dismount if brought into combat.
Invincible while leashed and can't die in PvP-Off zones: Most likely won't happen.

Breeding -
I think breeding the horse for others using certain golden apples, and I know there are more than 6 different types of god apples, should be half the fun. I don't know what the different attributes each of the apples gave, but perhaps they could help different stats on the horses. Breeding in different looks are also part of the fun for farmers and for the buyers.

I like this idea, it reminds me of breeding chocobos in FF7

Currently I am told in PVP-Off areas, animals and others can be killed. This is horrible for farmers who want to sell.

Usually buyers have a farm where you can spawn the animals they want to buy. Farmers may get a SummonHorse skill, but if they don't I think they should make it to when the Horses breed, it drops an horse egg so the farmer can sell it or just use it there.

Right now it says they average out after breeding but so far my 700hp horses keep producing 400hp horses.

I believe due to the new mob spawner mechanic, to get a horse with a lot o hp you have to go to the edge of the map.

There are some really good ideas here. Hopefully most of them will be put in.

 

[AdamForte649]

Love the idea of it! Gives Farmers more of an exploration/reason to choose the profession.

 

[Danda]

Combat -
I think horses being used could work in combat and give another level of hardcore mode.
Horses should be able to die in combat and / or while someone is riding it around.
If someone does not want to be killed by a horse, they should get one themselves.

Perhaps certain skills and weapons cannot be used while on a horse. (casting was interrupted by movement)
The archers aim would be horrible while moving... things like that.

Yes, some aspects of this may not work so it would have to be tested first.

There is a reason there isn't any horse combat. For balancing purposes it essentially throws everything we currently have out of the window. Which is why we've gone for our current model for horses. Horses will be expended so that more people are able to ride them in the future.

Name Tags -
Obviously anvils need to be fixed. That or engraving should actually work on them.
Perhaps farmers of a high level can engrave name tags?

Again this isn't going to happen as we already implemented a system in the past to allow people to name weapons and this was abused by people constantly making offensive names thus was removed. This would result in the same situation as sadly a large portion of this playerbase is rather childish.

Finding and Taming -
They are already hard to find, and a pain in the butt to get to your place.
I've blown up 2 horses and a donkey in my search. Barely able to find any more.

I believe finding a horse is a whole part of hardness in trying to get a horse farm. The farmer may even have to pay to locate a horse if someone has found one. They should also be the only ones to tame the horse for others.

The reason they are hard to find is because there are caps for both Hostile and Passive Mobs. These are set to prevent the server from bogging down with massive numbers of mobs. Once these caps are reached no more mobs will be spawned, this creates issues with every town is making overly huge farms which absorb the entirety of this cap resulting in no natural passive mob spawns. Have you noticed a difference between Haven & Ruins in terms of passive mob spawns? this is why.

Storage -
That and getting a horse they should have some type of "invulnerability" if you are not using them.
Therefore, if they are stored by lead on a fencepost, they will not be killed by raids to your place.

From a coding standpoint I'm not sure this is even possible in an efficient way. You'd need to ask someone with a better knowledge of coding than I.

Steeds seem to break after leaving the chunk sometimes...

This is a Minecraft issue and is not something we're able to fix.

 

[RagingDragon5]

Again this isn't going to happen as we already implemented a system in the past to allow people to name weapons and this was abused by people constantly making offensive names thus was removed. This would result in the same situation as sadly a large portion of this playerbase is rather childish.

I see your point on this, but in all honesty it is not fair to the players who want to use other to be childish. Even though it isn't really important it is still a feature I believe we should have. Can't we have it as a permissions thing, and anyone who has offensive stuff lose their permission?

 

[DavidKkz]

We already implemented a system in the past to allow people to name weapons and this was abused by people constantly making offensive names thus was removed. This would result in the same situation as sadly a large portion of this playerbase is rather childish.

Perhaps farmers could PE the rights to do this? If they abuse it they lose it?

The reason they are hard to find is because there are caps for both Hostile and Passive Mobs. These are set to prevent the server from bogging down with massive numbers of mobs. Once these caps are reached no more mobs will be spawned, this creates issues with every town is making overly huge farms which absorb the entirety of this cap resulting in no natural passive mob spawns. Have you noticed a difference between Haven & Ruins in terms of passive mob spawns? this is why.

[/quote]

What if you had to go to Ruins to get the horses, could that possibly work?

From a coding standpoint I'm not sure this is even possible in an efficient way. You'd need to ask someone with a better knowledge of coding than I.

The only thing that I can think of is summoning a 3x4x4 stable to keep them in and you can't hit pass it lol...
Or "despawning" the horse in an egg, which would also help trading that particular horse. Would that work?

 

[Danda]

I see your point on this, but in all honesty it is not fair to the players who want to use other to be childish. Even though it isn't really important it is still a feature I believe we should have. Can't we have it as a permissions thing, and anyone who has offensive stuff lose their permission?

While yes that is a possible solution it is extremely messy and there would not be a good way to tell which player were to have names the horse to begin with.

What if you had to go to Ruins to get the horses, could that possibly work?

Fairly sure horses are not able to travel through Multiverse portals so there would not be a way to have them change world unless we had a way to despawn them.

Or "despawning" the horse in an egg, which would also help trading that particular horse. Would that work?

Honestly I think this is the real solution to the trading & storage issues is the following. Make the Horse a physical item that you can right click to spawn which changes the item into an "Empty" version but still keep it tied to the horse via a unique identifier of some kind. Then if the horse were to die or despawn the container would be left useless as the horse is now gone and it couldn't be used to spawn the horse again. This would also stop people thieving horses that do not belong to them as the horse and the container are tied together.

But a system like this is fairly complex and would take time to build especially with all the other projects currently on the table for our coding team.

 

[DavidKkz]

Honestly I think this is the real solution to the trading & storage issues is the following. Make the Horse a physical item that you can right click to spawn which changes the item into an "Empty" version but still keep it tied to the horse via a unique identifier of some kind. Then if the horse were to die or despawn the container would be left useless as the horse is now gone and it couldn't be used to spawn the horse again. This would also stop people thieving horses that do not belong to them as the horse and the container are tied together.

But a system like this is fairly complex and would take time to build especially with all the other projects currently on the table for our coding team.

Hmm... well hopefully one day...
I just wished I could sell and trade my horses.
Right now everyone is concerned about the horse shop and does not want to buy them.
Maybe I'll just use them for w/e reason lol

 

[malikdanab]

Which system is Kainzo considering? If it's the one on the Test server, then you wouldn't have to worry about your horse dying/getting lost. The problem with this is that there is no potential for breeding.

 

[RagingDragon5]

While yes that is a possible solution it is extremely messy and there would not be a good way to tell which player were to have names the horse to begin with.

A way I can see this working is if a player decides to buy a horse from someone and they see the name is inappropriate they PE it, and take a picture for evidence. It would be too hard for mods and admins to track everyone down, so it should be players responsibilities too. If they decide not to report them and they are caught with that horse they get in trouble instead. Or any player caught with an inappropriate name gets in trouble. They would lose naming permissions, and possibly a reset to their character or a 24 hour ban. I believe this would reduce the numbers, since people will rarely risk a reset or a 24 hour ban due to someone else.

 

[DavidKkz]

I like the idea of the horse dying and getting lost, it actually gives farmers something to do. :x
If one farmer sells a horse to everyone, once might I add, that farmer and all of the others will have nothing to do with horses.
Right now as it is, it doesn't seem like farmers do much. Not to mention they don't get much xp for farming... using a hoe or planting...

I'm told anyone can use different armors now so leather isn't too much to be wanted. Horses could have been their "big" thing. Food wise, people can just eat zombie meat, or most towns have farms anyway lol

 

[malikdanab]

If only horses had a better breeding system. Imagine a thing where you could see the stats of a horse: HP, Speed, and Jump and when two horses mated, there skills would average out plus a small boots too all stats.

This would allow farmers to make increasingly better horses and make them so they fit a specific role. How this could work is that anyone could buy a horse (From the horse shop), but only farmers could make the better horses.

The problem of your horse getting lost/killed could be solved slightly by having the "Egg" you use being a permanent item. It would work as a regent where you can use a cmd to summon and unsummon your horse. A farmer could get his special breed horses and bound them to a egg. You could then sell the egg to players.

The only problem is that IDK if this could be coded....and if it can, I would imagine it would take a while to do so.

 

[Danda]

The problem of your horse getting lost/killed could be solved slightly by having the "Egg" you use being a permanent item. It would work as a regent where you can use a cmd to summon and unsummon your horse. A farmer could get his special breed horses and bound them to a egg. You could then sell the egg to players.

The only problem is that IDK if this could be coded....and if it can, I would imagine it would take a while to do so.

This is exactly what my suggestion is only it's not a "Problem" of your horse getting lost/killed it was an intentional addition. If you're only adding to the economy and not removing anything everything will eventually become worthless. That's why Prices of everything on HC lower over time because we're not taking as many resources out of the economy as the amount going in.

 

[malikdanab]

I'm pretty sure these same ideas where brought up when we learned that 1.6 was going to add horses. I think this was the thread: http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/heromount-name-wip.41920/page-3#post-365183

The question is, does Kainzo plan to stick to this old concept (Horses only exist when you mount them/You can't breed them) or is a different plan now?

 

[Moralsk]

I don't think all classes should be able to fight on horses. A class like Paladin should be able to fight on a mount. However, you and I as berserkers shouldn't be able to. Berserkers fought on foot. Not saying we shouldn't be able to ride horses just saying we shouldn't be able to fight from them. Some classes are more lore appropriate for mounted combat than others. This introduces more trouble with kiting though...

 

[malikdanab]

I don't think all classes should be able to fight on horses. A class like Paladin should be able to fight on a mount. However, you and I as berserkers shouldn't be able to. Berserkers fought on foot. Not saying we shouldn't be able to ride horses just saying we shouldn't be able to fight from them. Some classes are more lore appropriate for mounted combat than others. This introduces more trouble with kiting though...

NOPE! Classes will NEVER EVER be able to use horses in combat. It is completely game breaking and would be impossible to balance.

 

[Moralsk]

NOPE! Classes will NEVER EVER be able to use horses in combat. It is completely game breaking and would be impossible to balance.

Well not impossible, just unreasonably difficult...

 

[Moralsk]

And about making the horse invulnerable when it's tied to a post, I think it's possible. It amazes me how much the event system with this server can do efficiently. I'm pretty sure you could just have an event fired when the horse is it and have it immediately regain it's health.

 

[Kainzo]

We aren't interested in horse combat at this time.

We are considering the ability to breed horses.

I want the player to be given the ability to "stable" their horse when not used so it doesn't die, but complete immunity may not be good. Another system we've considered (but no plugin currently does) is the system that WoW has... once you tame/purchase a horse you keep it and can summon it without any fear of losing it forever.

On one hand, we have marketability but exclusiveness to farmers and on the other we have a wider audience and more of an ability to let players spend souls on horse upgrades (or even in store for different horse-skins)

 

[Danda]

Honestly if we have breeding Horses should die. Otherwise it's a constantly stagnating market that will only have more stock being introduced to the market with nothing leaving it causing the horses to quickly become worthless.

IMO the only way breeding can work is if we have something similar to what I suggested (It could also be command based instead of item based but something would be needed for horse storage)