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Suggestion Dragoon Stamina Costs

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada

And I do agree with most everything you have said here. Yes I did hype it up a bit, I know that, but I'm trying to bring peoples eyes to the problem. Yes Dragoon is still a very decent class, But compared to Bard (As a utility class) it is completely outmatched.

Also, you say that Dragoon matches up to DK. I completely disagree with that. DKs have more health, way better armor, and Skills that make some of Dragoons skills completely null and void. First of all an empathy harm touch will almost one shot a caster, Even while the DK is tanking everything, and getting health back with soul leech. Next, And this is what really puts the nail in the coffin, is that Terror is now a 6 second slow, and a 7 second silence. (This is what I was told by a DK friend of mine.) Now that is twice the length of a slow than impale. Impale was one of a Dragoon's most useful skills in teamfights, and now it is completely out matched by a DK.

I realise that you can't just buff a class, and that balance is a very tedious task, and I respect that. I'm not asking for a buff, I'm just posting issues that Dragoon has as a class.

Thanks Balance team guys for taking the time to read this.
 

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Everyone knows that Dread knights are "OP" and need re-working. That doesn't mean you need to buff a certain class to match it. (Pretty sure that's not the way terror works, unless it's been buffed within the last week or so.)

The difference between a dragoon and bard is that the dragoon will last longer than the bard with their armor and health.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
Everyone knows that Dread knights are "OP" and need re-working. That doesn't mean you need to buff a certain class to match it. (Pretty sure that's not the way terror works, unless it's been buffed within the last week or so.)

The difference between a dragoon and bard is that the dragoon will last longer than the bard with their armor and health.

I heard thats what terror was changed too. I'll need to get confirmation.

Bard have heals, buffs, slows, silences and more damage output, not to mention almost all of thier skills are aoe. Comparitive to Bards Dragoons are almost useless in Teamfights.
 

brancher

Obsidian
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
And I do agree with most everything you have said here. Yes I did hype it up a bit, I know that, but I'm trying to bring peoples eyes to the problem. Yes Dragoon is still a very decent class, But compared to Bard (As a utility class) it is completely outmatched.

Also, you say that Dragoon matches up to DK. I completely disagree with that. DKs have more health, way better armor, and Skills that make some of Dragoons skills completely null and void. First of all an empathy harm touch will almost one shot a caster, Even while the DK is tanking everything, and getting health back with soul leech. Next, And this is what really puts the nail in the coffin, is that Terror is now a 6 second slow, and a 7 second silence. (This is what I was told by a DK friend of mine.) Now that is twice the length of a slow than impale. Impale was one of a Dragoon's most useful skills in teamfights, and now it is completely out matched by a DK.

I realise that you can't just buff a class, and that balance is a very tedious task, and I respect that. I'm not asking for a buff, I'm just posting issues that Dragoon has as a class.

Thanks Balance team guys for taking the time to read this.
You've misread. I stated that every class has their weaknesses, even a DK.

Yes, DK's are outlandishly strong in 1v1 combat, so much so that it makes it seem somewhat overpowered. I understand this. The thing is that DK's mobility is extremely low, they have one slow, which most of the time won't even let them kill a caster (unless he actually goes out of his way to blow cooldowns) much less a dragoon.

The thing with dragoons is, is that you have the ability to pick your fight. Aside from that note dragoons have more utility than any other warrior class, if not every class period(aside from, lets face it, bards). Dragoons in group combat are invaluable. DK's are good to have for the damage, but unless you have something with utility to keep things still, or heal you, then you really won't do much, as a DK, in a group fight.

DK's do need retooled, but you can't, as spartanman said, buff other classes to match a DK. If this were to happen then we would have two things that people moan about, and not just one.

Bards are, what I feel, the second-most thing thats in need of work. Disciples in front of them.
Support classes should not be having the combat effectiveness that they currently do. That's just my opinion, though.

That said, I will be pushing for some minor retools for classes mentioned in this thread later this week. Don't expect anything too major, but hopefully it will be more bearable to all those afflicted by your current concerns.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
The one thing that does bother me is that in the past, Dragoon was "The Mobile Class". That's what we were, and that was great. But now, with the adition onf skills such as One and Quicken, sometimes I'll find one jump wil lag and not go, and I'll end up behind my friends with quicken or One. Jump can be iffy, where as quicken and One are constant. Not to mention Backflip + One is almost as quick as A dragoon.

Even DK's can have quicken :p.

But I do understand completly where your coming from.
 

Kwong050

Holy Shit!
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
The one thing that does bother me is that in the past, Dragoon was "The Mobile Class". That's what we were, and that was great. But now, with the adition onf skills such as One and Quicken, sometimes I'll find one jump wil lag and not go, and I'll end up behind my friends with quicken or One. Jump can be iffy, where as quicken and One are constant. Not to mention Backflip + One is almost as quick as A dragoon.

Even DK's can have quicken :p.

But I do understand completly where your coming from.
That is why I might stay ninja forever
 
F

~Falker57~

These ideas were very well thought out and you provided very good solutions the problems. I have switched out of dragoon yet I completely agree. Tbh I really dislike stamina. I just dislike how classes that use stamina cant run when they use their skills, yet casters can use their skills and still sprint. Stamina costs should be decreased cds should be increased. If spamming is a problem then cd is a better fix then stamina cost.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
These ideas were very well thought out and you provided very good solutions the problems. I have switched out of dragoon yet I completely agree. Tbh I really dislike stamina. I just dislike how classes that use stamina cant run when they use their skills, yet casters can use their skills and still sprint. Stamina costs should be decreased cds should be increased. If spamming is a problem then cd is a better fix then stamina cost.

This is what I'm trying to get at in general. One of the reasons that DK has less problems, is that they share mana and stam

Even so, DK's 60 skill, 3 stamina and 20% mana.

Dragoons 60 skill, 10 stamina 20% mana.

What the fuck
 
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~Falker57~

Mhm that is exactly why Dks are so good. They share mana and stam between all their skills. Make them a strictly stamina class. See how well they do.... I suggest make jump or something use like 40 mana. Meh thats prob dumb. But Still Dragoons need stam reductions. When I played them, they were definitely hard to play. Yes, Impale did help my team out a lot. But I was lucky to use impale by the time I got up to them in the team fight.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
I think one of the things that gets in the way of balance sometimes, is that we have to put realism first. Does it make sense for DKs to use mana and stam, and dragoons only stam? Yes. Does it work in practice? No.

For samurais to use stamina, it works, because they make up for it in their auto attack power. For Dragoons it doesn't work, because we rely on our skills for our class to work.

Imo all of dragoons skills need to be put down in stamina use and CDs raised,

OR

The regen speed of stamina needs to be doubled.

Obvioisly this would have to be tweaked for it not to be OP, but it really needs to find a balance point, beter than it is right now.

And if you want Dragoon to be a support class worthy of choosing over a bard, we are going to need some buff skills or something, IE Shouts of somesort. Maybe something like a Defenseive Battlecry, and an offensive battlecry.these would buff your party in battle.
 
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~Falker57~

I thought about tremor giving a damage buff you for a short amount of time after using it. That sounds a bit realistic cause if I imagined a Dragoon using temor in a movie or something then he would probaly shake, tremor every gets pushed back then he is on a rampage doing all kinds of insane damage.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
I thought about tremor giving a damage buff you for a short amount of time after using it. That sounds a bit realistic cause if I imagined a Dragoon using temor in a movie or something then he would probaly shake, tremor every gets pushed back then he is on a rampage doing all kinds of insane damage.

Maybe instead it could be somthing like it gives your party a defensive buff, and knocks the enmy back, so it could be used like a last resort to get enemys off your team, then gives time for healer to heal up. Maybe instead of a defensive buff, give. 200 damage sheild that lasts for 15 seconds, or until its damaged down.

Also maybe give like a new skill that gives a damage buff, to your team mates.. That would put us in the same league as bards.

Sorry I'm on my phone.
 

Scycor

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
IHazBryn, I almost everything you say on the forums and almost agree with 100% of what you say. But in this thread I saw that you said "Dragoons need more damaging skills". IMO they don't need more damaging skills because you already said yourself "They were known as the mobility class" (Or something like that). What I think is some of their skills should take lots less stamina then they already do, and I think they should just fix the damaging skills, not add new ones (aka. Charge, Tremor, and change spears warmup)
 
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~Falker57~

That post was just me stating what would be cool. I doubt it would ever happen but what you said Bryn could very well be possible.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
IHazBryn, I almost everything you say on the forums and almost agree with 100% of what you say. But in this thread I saw that you said "Dragoons need more damaging skills". IMO they don't need more damaging skills because you already said yourself "They were known as the mobility class" (Or something like that). What I think is some of their skills should take lots less stamina then they already do, and I think they should just fix the damaging skills, not add new ones (aka. Charge, Tremor, and change spears warmup)

This is true,I don't necesaraly want more damage, its just one of the ways these issues could be fixed.

I agree with what you said.

I have played a Dragoon since the start of zeal, so expect me to be a bit baised :p. I want my class to be good.
 

brancher

Obsidian
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
I thought about tremor giving a damage buff you for a short amount of time after using it. That sounds a bit realistic cause if I imagined a Dragoon using temor in a movie or something then he would probaly shake, tremor every gets pushed back then he is on a rampage doing all kinds of insane damage.
I had no idea Dragoons were used in movies so often.
 
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