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Suggestion Dragoon Stamina Costs

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
I know that most suggestion threads are shot down with screams of "YOUR CLASS IS FINE" and "LOL UR BAD", but I honestly feel like some of dragoons skills are in a wrong place, a place that renders them almost useless in combat. Ill go through the skills and point out what I believe needs changing.

Before we start, lets go over the basics of stamina.

You have 19 base Stamina, which regenerates at a rate of (I eyeballed this) One per second, or One per Two seconds when sprinting. If you get below 6 stamina you can no longer sprint. (Sometimes I literally consider myself to only have 13 stamina, just so I can chase or run.)

Now we have that covered, lets move on to the skills. (I won't be talking about the "Shared warrior skills". IE. Bash, Disarm.)

Strike:

6 Stamina | 6 Second CD:

Does 65 base damage, and puts a dot on that ticks for 12 damage, every 2.5 seconds, for 6 seconds.

Personally I don't use this skill much, for two reasons. One, the Stamina cost of 6 is a little bit high, for only 65 damage (Dragoon shovel does 69), and two, the dot does not work. It only ticks once when use use the skill, and not after.

Usefulness Rating: 2/10

Jump:

5 Stamina | 5 Second CD:

Jumps you though the air, usually 20 to 30 blocks.

Bread and butter. CD is fine, Stam cost is fine. Sometimes it can be a bit obnoxious to use seeing as you have to have 12 stamina to jump and continue to sprint. This puts you at around 10 seconds in between each jump, if sprinting. I only wish that you could still sprint without saving 6 stamina.

EDIT: Just got nerfed to 6 stamina, I don't know what the thought process was, but all its done has made dragoon more annoying to play, and more prone to run out of stamina.

If you want to stop spaming nerf the CD not the stamina cost.

Usefulness Rating: 9/10

Tumble:


Passive | Stops fall damage based on level. I think it is 11 blocks mastered.

Perfect.

Usefulness Rating: 10/10

Charge:

6 Stamina | 5 Second CD:

Jump to your target, dealing (85*0.1 per level) damage, slowing target for 3 seconds and interrupting spell casting.

I took that description right off the wiki. First of all, it doesn't even make you jump more than 5 blocks half the time. Second of all, there is no slow, no damage, and no interrupt. I don't know if this is an old description, or if its bugged, but if its meant to be just the little hop, I will never use it.

Usefulness Rating: 0/10
If Fixed: 8-9/10

Impale:


8 Stamina | 10 Second CD:

Deals 134 damage, slowing the target for 3 seconds.

First of all I want to say that this is one of the most useful skills in a Dragoon's arsenal. But, Most of its usefulness is null and void when it takes almost half your stamina. Use it as an opener, and you wont have enough Stam left to Strike and Bash. Use it In the middle of a fight, Just kidding you don't have enough stamina, and if you do, you can't sprint any more. Use it to slow someone who is running, Just kidding you can't jump to catch up to them, and if you do, you run out of sprint as soon as you use it. By the time the slow is over, they aren't dead, and you can't sprint any more.

PS: it only does 69 damage, so don't even try to use it as a damage skill.

It needs it stamina cost to be lowered to 6, maybe even 5 before it gets useful. Bump the CD up to 15, even 20. I don't care if I have to wait longer to use it again, I just want to be able to USE it.

Usefulness Rating: 6/10
If Changed: 9/10


Super Jump:


10 Stamina | 5 Second CD:

Fly 35-40 blocks upwards, gives you safefall, and makes you jump twice as high for 5 seconds.

Not very useful in pvp, very situational. Great for getting over things, up things and anything else you can do with it. The stam cost is fine, its all fine.

Usefulness Rating: 8/10

Tremor:

10 Stamina | 7 Second CD | 20% Mana:

Knock back everyone within 5 blocks around you, dealing 95 damage.

The great level 60 skill! Too bad it has the exact same problem as Impale, except worse. It uses more than half of your stamina, does decent damage, and knocks people back. I have had lots of fun with this skill, but in combat? Its almost useless. The mana cost is fine, to stop spaming, but really, 10 out of lets say 13 stamina (taking out the sprint stamina), is a bit overkill. I was hoping that for a 60 skill it would be something with more uses.

Needs the stamina to be put down to to 5-6. CD maybe upped to 10 seconds, but its not like its some massive finisher. More of a control ability. Mana is fine.

Usefulness Rating: 6/10
If Changed: 8-9/10

Spear:

5 Stamina | "Didn't check the number" CD | 5% Mana | 2 Second Warmup:

Force pull, does 65 damage.

Perfectly fine.

Usefulness Rating: 9/10

____________________________________________

Really Only "Tremor" and "Impale" need stamina changes. The rest are fine, except for the multiple bugs. I don't know charge is meant to actually do what it says, but if it really should do that, that that would be a great skill to have.

TL;DR:
Some Dragoon skills use way to much stamina, causing them to be useless in an actually fight. Mainly "Impale" and "Tremor". Charge doesn't do what the wiki says, and is completely useless as a skill. The bleed on Strike is broken.

I put some time into this, so even if you have nothing to say, leave a post with some feedback.

Thanks.
 

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
The thing about impale is that, unlike other roots it doesn't break on damage. This means that you can sit there and beat on them while regenerating more stamina.

Edit: If you impale them that means you don't have to sprint so regen stamina faster, and don't use auto sprint because it's bugged with stamina (after you use it you have to sprint normally to regen stamina normally).
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
The thing about impale is that, unlike other roots it doesn't break on damage. This means that you can sit there and beat on them while regenerating more stamina.

Its not about having stamina after, its about the fact that if you use any other skills, you won't have stamina enough to use it.

Also its a 3 second slow, that's 3 stamina, if you sprint for one second thats 2, if you use auto sprint its 1 stamina.

As I said, Boost the CD, I just want to use it with other skill combos, other than bashing impale and then smacking them.

Also, a single stamina refers to half a bar of food. For those who play casters
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
@spartanman118

I personally don't even use auto sprint.

But you seem to be saying that using impale gives you enough stamina regened to use other skills.

you can't use any skills with 3 stamina.
 

jbird112233

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
I feel that impale is fine where it is. It's the best slow in the game and after you use it you can still jump then sprint.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
I don't understand. Bryn says impale takes 8 stam and it's nearly half the total stam. I am a samurai and I have only 10 stam total. Do Dragoons get like 20 stam? Most of my skills takes half my stam or more.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
I don't understand. Bryn says impale takes 8 stam and it's nearly half the total stam. I am a samurai and I have only 10 stam total. Do Dragoons get like 20 stam? Most of my skills takes half my stam or more.

you have 19 stamina, every half bar is one stam.

EDIT: just looked at the stam costs for Samurai. Bleed at 6 stamina, for 20 seconds, and Mortal wound at 10 stamina for 20 seconds.

If you apply both at once, you'll have enough stamina to re apply them by the time they are both up again. Bladegrasp at 10 seems fair for 5 seconds of almost invulnerable.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
you have 19 stamina, every half bar is one stam.

EDIT: just looked at the stam costs for Samurai. Bleed at 6 stamina, for 20 seconds, and Mortal wound at 10 stamina for 20 seconds.

If you apply both at once, you'll have enough stamina to re apply them by the time they are both up again. Bladegrasp at 10 seems fair for 5 seconds of almost invulnerable.
Bladegrasp stops no skills. Mortalwound is useless for the cost. Bleed is great! Bleed do 50 more damage then mortalwound and cost way less stam. I just realised, old Inversion took 14 stam. Holy shit!
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
Bladegrasp stops no skills. Mortalwound is useless for the cost. Bleed is great! Bleed do 50 more damage then mortalwound and cost way less stam. I just realised, old Inversion took 14 stam. Holy shit!

Yea but it one hit casters :p

Dragoon is a utility class, and I just want to be able to use impale in more skill combos.

Right now you can only jump twice, then impale. Or only one jump, then impale if you still want to sprint.

You can bash once, then impale, but then you cant sprint.

you can disarm, then impale, but then you cant sprint for 4-5 seconds.

you can jump once, spear once, then wait 2 seconds to impale.

you can spear, impale. That's like the only useful combo.


Tremor though, does not do enough for what its worth, for sure.


In a teamfight I usually just impale the target, and my team kills them. I want to do more, or at least be able to use more interesting combos, especially with Tremor. I can't really help control an engagement with no sprint and one skill. And its not like I do much damage.


And it would be nice if charge did what the wiki said, that might make up for impale being a little costly.
I don't know if its bugged though. @Kainzo
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Hard to perform combos as a stam class. Bleed + Bash + Bash + Bleed ~ Repeat is the best combo for a samurai currently (Yeah that's how plain sammy became with the last updates.)
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
Hard to perform combos as a stam class. Bleed + Bash + Bash + Bleed ~ Repeat is the best combo for a samurai currently (Yeah that's how plain sammy became with the last updates.)
Yea For me its basically, jump, bash, hit stuff. Throw in an impale if I save my stam.
 

Thunderjolt

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Location
California
@iHazBryn

It's been a while since i've messed with Dragoon skills on test server, but if I remember correctly charge only seemed to work as intention while I was jumping, not the skill, the spacebar jump.

Could you try it out and let me know if that does anything different?
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
@iHazBryn

It's been a while since i've messed with Dragoon skills on test server, but if I remember correctly charge only seemed to work as intention while I was jumping, not the skill, the spacebar jump.

Could you try it out and let me know if that does anything different?

I'll test it out.

@Thunderjolt

EDIT: I checked it out, when you jump, you fly farther, but there is no damage, and no slow.

Plus tumble doesn't work with it, I took damage from 2 blocks up.

Its basically just a target jump, that takes more stamina.
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
Strike down to 4, but I'm still not going to use it seeing as two hits with my spade does 50 damage more, and is four times as fast

Jump up too six, that's just fucking great.:confused:

any info on charge @Thunderjolt ?
 

iHazBryn

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Canada
Oh well thats interesting about strike, but yea, Jump got put up to 6 stamina, which I consider a nerf.

Its hard enough already to keep your stamina at a decent level. Use one skill every 10 seconds, auto attack for the rest.

Kinda boring if you ask me.
 
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