Suggestion Disciple it hits like a truck and tanks like a ton.....

[werwew19]

Alright I am sure mostly everyone knows disciples current state.

Chakra
You radiate a group heal of 110 health and remove a random debuff to party members within 10 blocks.

Forcepush
4 second cooldown about 70 damage only 10 mana points and it pushes them away 5 blocks

Forcepull
4 second cooldown about 70 damage 20 mana points and a 10 block range.

FlyingKick
10 second cool down 60 damage you kick them upwards 5 block range and a 4 SECOND SILENCE.

Quivering Palm
A 1 second stun 60 damage and decreases all incoming damage by 50% (Pretty sure that is the debuff)

These are just a few skills I feel is plain out stupid and he is why.

Disciple has 870 health with blaze rod doing over 60 damage at max level a hit. Raw fish up to 55 damage. There skills such low mana costs especially for the effects they have on people with like 180 mana points.

Chakra is 30 mana on a 15 second cooldown it can be used solo and really screws over caster classes with it which I don't have a problem with however it does it with the entire party making them amazing in teamfights it makes classes like pyro completely useless and it is such a good skill

Forcepush and Forcepull are on 4 second cooldowns for such cheap mana costs and they have a high range doing almost 100 damage a piece I feel with the tankiness of a disciple with chakra and heals with MEDITATE that these skills at its current state are jokes and probably the strongest skills because those are the only two skills they need.

Quivering Palm with the skills disciple has right now they have a 1 second stun and a debuff reducing incoming damage by 50 percent for a pretty decent time while doing 60 damage with disciple at the moment they do NOT need the stun and it is just making them stronger my jaws almost dropped when I saw that disciple got buffed this patch and I started noticing the plethora of people going disciple because of how broken it is.

I am going to throw in the heals for disciple here as a whole because they can heal a ton hit like a truck and tank quite a bit of damage with there chakra and heals. Disciple seriously needs to be rebalanced because it will win against basically any class with some of there skills.

A suggestion I have is for chakra maybe have it not work in 1v1's or on yourself during teamfights. Also for quiveringpalm remove the stun its stupid and for Flying Kick lower the silence for a bit I am fine with the rest. Forcepull and ForcePush seriously make the cooldowns higher possibly by double because it is stupidly OP you can destroy masters at like level 30.

 

[monkeyfatzer]

Alright I am sure mostly everyone knows disciples current state.

Chakra
You radiate a group heal of 110 health and remove a random debuff to party members within 10 blocks.

Forcepush
4 second cooldown about 70 damage only 10 mana points and it pushes them away 5 blocks

Forcepull
4 second cooldown about 70 damage 20 mana points and a 10 block range.

FlyingKick
10 second cool down 60 damage you kick them upwards 5 block range and a 4 SECOND SILENCE.

Quivering Palm
A 1 second stun 60 damage and decreases all incoming damage by 50% (Pretty sure that is the debuff)

These are just a few skills I feel is plain out stupid and he is why.

Disciple has 870 health with blaze rod doing over 60 damage at max level a hit. Raw fish up to 55 damage. There skills such low mana costs especially for the effects they have on people with like 180 mana points.

Chakra is 30 mana on a 15 second cooldown it can be used solo and really screws over caster classes with it which I don't have a problem with however it does it with the entire party making them amazing in teamfights it makes classes like pyro completely useless and it is such a good skill

Forcepush and Forcepull are on 4 second cooldowns for such cheap mana costs and they have a high range doing almost 100 damage a piece I feel with the tankiness of a disciple with chakra and heals with MEDITATE that these skills at its current state are jokes and probably the strongest skills because those are the only two skills they need.

Quivering Palm with the skills disciple has right now they have a 1 second stun and a debuff reducing incoming damage by 50 percent for a pretty decent time while doing 60 damage with disciple at the moment they do NOT need the stun and it is just making them stronger my jaws almost dropped when I saw that disciple got buffed this patch and I started noticing the plethora of people going disciple because of how broken it is.

I am going to throw in the heals for disciple here as a whole because they can heal a ton hit like a truck and tank quite a bit of damage with there chakra and heals. Disciple seriously needs to be rebalanced because it will win against basically any class with some of there skills.

A suggestion I have is for chakra maybe have it not work in 1v1's or on yourself during teamfights. Also for quiveringpalm remove the stun its stupid and for Flying Kick lower the silence for a bit I am fine with the rest. Forcepull and ForcePush seriously make the cooldowns higher possibly by double because it is stupidly OP you can destroy masters at like level 30.

It needs a definite change, the damage output is too high with the heals, they can run out bare and kill you 1v1. Plus the stun is really broken since it's a stun then it silences you....

 

[Kainzo]

http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/stop-using-subjective-terms-op-up-nerfed.25237/

Just posting numbers doesn't mean you're backing your outrageous statements.
"X is just plain stupid"
You aren't mentioning that some of these abilities also take stamina. Also - after reviewing the skills, it seems DivineWord slipped through the cracks and shouldnt be out yet.

 

[werwew19]

http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/stop-using-subjective-terms-op-up-nerfed.25237/

Just posting numbers doesn't mean you're backing your outrageous statements.
"X is just plain stupid"
You aren't mentioning that some of these abilities also take stamina. Also - after reviewing the skills, it seems DivineWord slipped through the cracks and shouldnt be out yet.

I tried to follow those guidelines however sure they take stamina but have you seen them in recent PvP? I kinda derped out on this thread due to frustration but it is still such a strong class. 4 second CDs on Forcepull and ForcePush is insane especially compared to other classes they pull a caster in get a few hits with there blazerod over 300 damage easy flyingkick then forcepush them away for an extra 70 and they can let there stam regen etc. It is insane how much damage they can output for a healer class and heal a pretty decent amount.

 

[monkeyfatzer]

http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/stop-using-subjective-terms-op-up-nerfed.25237/

Just posting numbers doesn't mean you're backing your outrageous statements.
"X is just plain stupid"
You aren't mentioning that some of these abilities also take stamina. Also - after reviewing the skills, it seems DivineWord slipped through the cracks and shouldnt be out yet.

Sorry, my bad. What we're trying to get at here is that disciples can literally kill any class by themselves, the heals and the damage output are too high. When they get low on mana they can just meditate and they are back at full, I understand that they have stamina as well. The stamina costs I would have to toy around with, but Disciple is definately one of the strongest classes. If disciples had the high damage with low heals, it would be fine. They have high damage and high heals, it could even be high heals and low damage and they would still be great. If you consider taking a look at disciple I am willing to help out in any way needed.

 

[joshtsai]

Couple easy fixes here:
Up the cool downs on skills like force, and the heals not including chakra.
You guys seem to have missed that due to the Self Heal Nerf chakra only heals for 89 damage. If you can't deal 89 damage with in the time span of 2 chakras, don't make even try.

Forcepush would be an extremely strong skill, if it worked 100% of the time. Good example I was in an arena and despite my spam of force push a the ninja focusing me got me down and kept on me to the point that I could not heal myself back up.

Lowering the damage done with the blaze rod and fish might also be a possible action. And the fact that they can fight naked is what the disciple was designed for and that aspect should be kept.

Meditate has a warmup, so if you see that skill begin you should counter it as hard ad you can.

 

[werwew19]

Couple easy fixes here:
Up the cool downs on skills like force, and the heals not including chakra.
You guys seem to have missed that due to the Self Heal Nerf chakra only heals for 89 damage. If you can't deal 89 damage with in the time span of 2 chakras, don't make even try.

Forcepush would be an extremely strong skill, if it worked 100% of the time. Good example I was in an arena and despite my spam of force push a the ninja focusing me got me down and kept on me to the point that I could not heal myself back up.

Lowering the damage done with the blaze rod and fish might also be a possible action. And the fact that they can fight naked is what the disciple was designed for and that aspect should be kept.

Meditate has a warmup, so if you see that skill begin you should counter it as hard ad you can.

Meditate has a 2 second warmup and not every class has an interrupt it isn't like arcane blast where you can definitely interrupt it. 2 seconds go pretty quick in fight and only warriors can do that but the counter to the interrupt well forcepush. If forcepush doesn't work like you claim there still would be a way to use meditate if it wasn't against a huge burst class like Ninja and it still will be deadly. Now the chakra nerf heal wasn't on the wiki even with the 60 skills up so I apologize for that but it removes the debuffs like fire etc. which makes some classes useless because fire is there bread and butter like pyromancer. Against a disciple as a wizard (They counter me and I won't argue that) they chakra my fireballs and interrupt my bolts so it is hard to get a decent damage output against one and I always going down leaving them at like 300+ due to there chakra's healing fireballs and my bolts getting interrupted.

 

[joshtsai]

How about and increase to meditates warmup? Make it a skill not to be used in the thick of things but as a last resort or after a fight. As for getting rid of fire, even mend aka bandage does that.

Edit: Chakra removes 1 debuff randomly a Pyro should then get both the fire and the wither off on a disciple.

 

[Teerian]

This thread seems silly to me. All of these skills except for quivering palm have been a part of the disciple skill set long before the level cap increase. Why are they now suddenly "OP"? As far as I know, none of the skills were changed except for bandage (now called mend) and pray (renewal). Both seem to function the same way they did under their old names.

Did I miss something, or is it just the fact that more than three people on the server play the class now and no one is used to fighting them?

 

[JacobBurkey]

Teerian, disciple isn't just suddenly OP, people have been complaining for a while about it. It has always been a VERY strong class, just nobody thought of playing it before. Just writing this short lil thing cause im really tired...

 

[werwew19]

This thread seems silly to me. All of these skills except for quivering palm have been a part of the disciple skill set long before the level cap increase. Why are they now suddenly "OP"? As far as I know, none of the skills were changed except for bandage (now called mend) and pray (renewal). Both seem to function the same way they did under their old names.

Did I miss something, or is it just the fact that more than three people on the server play the class now and no one is used to fighting them?

You missed quite a bit I always complained about them I know that for a fact but when they got the stun and the heal buff (Which wasn't intended) it made me make the thread.

 

[macura]

My suggestion:

Up the cds of forcepull and forecepush by 1-2s and increase the stamina cost from 4 to 5 for both.

Lower the silence if flying kick, 4s is the longest kick type skill silence since dragonguard.

 

[Teerian]

You missed quite a bit I always complained about them I know that for a fact but when they got the stun and the heal buff (Which wasn't intended) it made me make the thread.

Gotcha. I had forgotten about the accidental Divine Word addition since I was still leveling dragoon at the time. As for the stun, I view that as something everyone will just have to get used to. Each class has something new at 65. Just have to learn to expect the ability and try to find a counter to it, same as all of the other new skills.

My suggestion:

Up the cds of forcepull and forecepush by 1-2s and increase the stamina cost from 4 to 5 for both.

Lower the silence if flying kick, 4s is the longest kick type skill silence since dragonguard.

No and no. The force spells are already fairly unreliable in a pvp fight due to the targeting system and client/server latency issues. It's also already easy enough to stamina-starve oneself in an intense fight, and these two abilities are pretty much the make-or-break skills for the class.

The silence on flying kick I'll leave to the balance team. My experiences against casters have led me to believe that the length is necessary. Some of the more ballsy wizards have shown that a good tactic against a disciple is to just unload everything in a blinding torrent of close-range, instant (or fast) burst damage spells. These instances where I walked away the victor, I typically did so with one heart or less. Shaving off even one second of silence would mean that practically every kamikaze wizard rush results in a very dead disciple. Then you also have beguilers chaining pigify/plaguebomb over and over. That 4 second silence against them can often be the only damage time you get in the fight. Fighting the other healing specs without silence just turns the battle into a heal-off that a disciple will eventually lose. A four second window can be pretty small against a heal-spamming cleric.

In short, I feel flying kick should be left alone as well, but I need time at 65 fighting level 65's with all the new skills before I can say "You're out of your mind. Leave the ability as is."

 

[Teerian]

Teerian, disciple isn't just suddenly OP, people have been complaining for a while about it. It has always been a VERY strong class, just nobody thought of playing it before. Just writing this short lil thing cause im really tired...

Somehow missed this post. I agree disciple has always been a strong class, but it has always been a class that you have to know how to play correctly if you want to be successful.

When people started noticing the incredible mobility and durability of the dragoon class, the world was flooded with dragoons. When people saw the samurai class' abilities made it all but a 'left-click-and-win' path, Herocraft turned into feudal Japan. However, despite seeing the two or three max disciples of the server doing very well for themselves, very few people switched, and many of those who did abandoned it before long.

This leads me to believe that people are basing their information off of the top players; the ones who excel at the class. The fact that disciple isn't (or at least wasn't) a popular class choice just makes it seem like more people than normal excel at it.

It's something I've seen in many other games. 100 players all play the same class. 2 of them are really good at timing their abilities, chaining them the right way, and making the best decisions against specific classes, making them seem almost godlike. The other 98 aspire to this, but never reach that high bar. They either don't mesh with the style of the class or simply don't have the skill or timing of those top 2. The rest of the player base sees/fights the top 2 and believes such is the norm for the entire class. Cries of "NERF" ensue (and in some cases, sadly, are met with success).

Is this the case with the disciple class? I don't know for sure, and I won't claim to. It just seems very odd to me.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I am aware of the issues with Disciple. Working on some number changes for them.

 

[Templar_James]

Somehow missed this post. I agree disciple has always been a strong class, but it has always been a class that you have to know how to play correctly if you want to be successful.

When people started noticing the incredible mobility and durability of the dragoon class, the world was flooded with dragoons. When people saw the samurai class' abilities made it all but a 'left-click-and-win' path, Herocraft turned into feudal Japan. However, despite seeing the two or three max disciples of the server doing very well for themselves, very few people switched, and many of those who did abandoned it before long.

This leads me to believe that people are basing their information off of the top players; the ones who excel at the class. The fact that disciple isn't (or at least wasn't) a popular class choice just makes it seem like more people than normal excel at it.

It's something I've seen in many other games. 100 players all play the same class. 2 of them are really good at timing their abilities, chaining them the right way, and making the best decisions against specific classes, making them seem almost godlike. The other 98 aspire to this, but never reach that high bar. They either don't mesh with the style of the class or simply don't have the skill or timing of those top 2. The rest of the player base sees/fights the top 2 and believes such is the norm for the entire class. Cries of "NERF" ensue (and in some cases, sadly, are met with success).

Is this the case with the disciple class? I don't know for sure, and I won't claim to. It just seems very odd to me.

No not really last map I was a disc and didn't even max because I was to lazy and yet I was always killing people...

 

[MultiHeartGold]

No not really last map I was a disc and didn't even max because I was to lazy and yet I was always killing people...

You do know that last map ended about 8 months ago, and this one started 7 months ago, right?

 

[lioIIoil]

Yeah I agree disciple just needs longer cooldowns on Forcepull/forcepush. And needs a longer cooldown on its heals.​

 

[Templar_James]

You do know that last map ended about 8 months ago, and this one started 7 months ago, right?

Discipline is literally the same thing it was back then just different heals which don't even matter...

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Discipline is literally the same thing it was back then just different heals which don't even matter...

So... Disciple has been the same the whole time, yet I recall nobody playing Disciple the whole 2012 part of Bastion, people sometimes said its a shitty class, but now its suddenly too powerful, which it apparnently was before?