• Guest, HEROCRAFT PUBLIC RELEASE IS HAPPENING AN HOUR EARLIER! TONIGHT @ 7PM CST GET READY FOR IT! play.hc.to
    Read up on the guides and new systems! Here.
    View the LIVE Map here @ hc.to/map
    Stuck or have a problem? use "/pe create" to to open a ticket with staff (There are some known issues and other hotfixes we will be pushing asap)
  • Guest, Make sure to use our LAUNCHER! Read more here!

Suggestion Conceptual Class -Cleric(Reborn)

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
Third Draft -
If you like the idea then please rate the post! If you have concerns, questions or comments please reply below!
Please keep in mind this is a fledgling suggestion and I would love to hear any constructive criticism or suggestion you may have
As per usual please don't get stuck on numbers as this is a design document and not a balance document, if these changes were ever to see the light of day the actual numbers would be tested and determined through testing and not this document!
__________________________________________________________________________
"The Cleric, revered by all the warriors of the lands for their ability to touch the eternal and carry back with them the ability to protect and heal those around them. I will warn you though, that even though a Cleric's true calling lies in his ability to heal, don't mistake a Cleric for an easy target, for they truly do have the divine on their side. ~ Eldrylars


Cleric - (Divinity Reborn)
A rebirth of the Cleric class for the Heroes system?

The Cleric is a stout and resilient class that is generally focused around healing but can sometimes have a bit of a sharp edge to them as well. The Cleric can choose to follow the path of Wisdom to strengthen his divine healing abilities, or he can spend his days on the path of Intellect and focus himself more towards purifying those who need it.


Basic Information:
Type: Healer
Focus: Medium/Long Range Healer
Base Equip Weight: 46.25
Weapon: Hammer(Pick)

Base Health: 635
Health Per Lvl: 3.5
Max Health: 861

Base Stamina: 1000

Base Mana: 948
Mana Per Lvl: 3
Max Mana: 1140


Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: 3
Endurance: 5
Agility: -6
Intellect: 0
Wisdom: 7
Charisma: -3

Strengths:
Tanky
Strong Heals
Strong Combat Support


Weaknesses:
Mana management
Low damage without loss of primary healing abilities.


Drain Counters are placed on the Cleric when using certain spells. Drain counters are on a shared 8 second timer which starts when the first counter is given and all counters are removed when the initial counter has expired. While Drain Counters are in effect the cost of some Cleric spells may increase, while other spells may be weakened in their potency.


Skills:
Level: 1
SacredWord - Skill power: 3.3

Mana: (25 + (12.5*Drain Counter)) Stamina: 0 Cooldown: .5 sec Warmup: instant Reagent: None
Description: You shout the sacred mantra of the divinities, healing your target (within 8 blocks) for (5 + 1.5 per Wisdom point - .75 per Intellect point.) and gaining 1 Drain Counter.

HolyFlames - Skill power: 118
Mana: 100 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 10 sec Warmup: instant Reagent: None
Description: An orb of fiery purification shoots from the Cleric damaging the first enemy it hits for (40 + 4 per Intellect point - 2 per Wisdom point) damage. This spell does an additional 60 damage to undead targets.


Level: 5

BlessedWeapon - Skill power:

Mana: 120 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 35 sec Warmup: 1.5 Reagent: None
Description: The Divinities bless your weapon for 22 seconds. When you strike an enemy with your weapon you gain one Drain Counter and then deal an additional (.75 per Intellect point / Drain Counters) holy damage. The effects of BlessedWeapon gain an additional 5 damage with undead enemies.


Level: 10

HolyAura - Skill power: 13.95

Mana: 180 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 20 sec Warmup: 1.5 Reagent: None
Description: Radiating a Holy Aura, you heal all allies within 6 blocks (other than yourself) for (10 + 0.3125 per wisdom point) health every 2 seconds. Any undead targets within your Holy Aura will also be dealt (10 + 0.1562 per wisdom point) damage. Your aura takes 1.5 seconds to warm up and it dissipates after 16 seconds.


Level: 15
InnerFire – Skill power:

Mana: 150 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 1 min Warmup: 2 sec Reagent: None
Description: You release your inner fire to fight off your enemies, increasing your Intellect by (.65 per Wisdom point) and reducing your Wisdom to 0 for 30 seconds. Takes 2 seconds to warm up.


Level: 20
Invuln – Skill power:

Mana: 220 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 5 min Warmup: Instant Reagent: Cactus
Description: You are invulnerable to all damage for 4 seconds.


Level 25
Dispel - Skill power: -35

Mana: (60 + (30*Drain Counter)) Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 1 sec Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You remove a magical effect1 from your target (within 12 blocks). Takes .5 second to warm up and you gain 1 Drain Counter.

Level: 30
HolyWater - Skill power: 80
Mana: 200 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 18 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None

Description: You throw a potion of Holy Water at your target location. Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (20 + 4 per wisdom point - 2 per Intellect point) health and your enemies in a 5 block radius are damaged for (20 + 3.75 per Intellect point - 1.75 per Wisdom point) health.

Removed
HolyWater - Skill power: 31.35

Mana: 200 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 18 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You throw a potion of Holy Water at your target location. Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (60 + 2 per wisdom point - 1 per Intellect point) health and the undead receive the same amount as damage.

PurifyingVial - Skill power: 31.35
Mana: 200 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 18 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You throw a vial of purifying water at your target location. Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for (60 + 1.75 per Intellect point - .75 per Wisdom point) health and the undead receive the same amount as damage.


Level: 35
SacredTouch - Skill power: 67

Mana: (160 + (35*Drain Counter)) Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 5 Warmup: 2.5 Reagent: None
Description: Your touch heals your target (within 3 blocks) for (190 + 4.25 per wisdom point - 2.5 per Intellect point) health and gaining 1 Drain Counter. Takes 3 seconds to warm up. This spell is not usable on yourself.

Level: 40
Revive - Skill power: (-100 / 72)

Mana: 200 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 1 min Warmup: * Reagent: Rose
Description: You breathe life back into your target, returning them to the place where they died most recently (if you are within 50 blocks of that place). Takes (12 - .1 per Wisdom point) seconds to warm up.


Level: 45
DivineBlessing – Skill power: 48

Mana: 240 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 15 Warmup: 2.5 Reagent: None
Description: All party members (including yourself) within an 8 block radius are healed for (120 + 3.25 per wisdom point - 2 per Intellect point - (10 per Drain Counter)) health. Takes 2.5 seconds to warm up.


Level: 50

Blessing - Skill power: 132.35
Mana: 300 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 10 Warmup: 7 Reagent: 5 Gold Bars
Description: You encourage your target (within 10 blocks), increasing their Constitution by 15 and all other stats by 5 for (10 + 0.5 per level) minutes. Takes 7 seconds to warm up.


Level: 55
GuardianAngel – Skill power: 2.61

Mana: 350 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 3 min Warmup: Instant Reagent: 1 Cactus
Description: Party members within a 7 block radius are invulnerable for 3 seconds.


Level: 60
SacredHymnSkill power: .25

Mana: 200 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 3 min Warmup: Instant Reagent: None
Description: Your hymn calls down healing upon yourself, restoring (200 + 3.125 per wisdom point - 2 per Intellect point) health and negating their fire effects.


Level: 65
HealingOrb - Skill power: 54
Mana: (100 + (50*Drain Counter)) Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 2 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None

Description: You blast an Orb of healing energy in front of you that will heal the first player it contacts for (80 + 1 per wisdom point - 1 per Intellect point) health and removing fire effects. Takes .5 seconds to warm up.


Fullheal– Removed 7/10/14
Mana: 350 Stamina: 0 Cooldown: 20 Warmup: * sec Reagent: None
Description: You restore your target within (8 + 0.15 per wisdom point) blocks to full health. If cast on yourself, you heal for half your maximum health points. Takes (4 + .1 per Intellect point) seconds to warm up.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts behind design and direction

The current problems with Cleric is downtime and lack of ability to choose a more self efficient path in offensive skills. Currently building Intellect and Strength and neglecting all other stats you will do horrible damage making this class very hard to play solo, without group support. The downtime issue is due to long(but needed) cooldowns to prevent over use of heals. Healing with a Tanky class like Cleric is in a way more powerful as they are not targeted due to their high survivability and can stand in the middle of a massive battle and survive for long periods of time throwing heals on their allies, where as a healer like Druid or Bloodmage needs to kite and avoid the middle of the fight, which will make it a little more difficult to continually apply heal.

Downtime:
Currently there are two factors controlling Clerics healing ability which is cooldowns and Mana cost. Although the Cleric generally has a good mana regeneration they can still blow their entire mana pool in seconds using their skills. Mixed with the cooldowns the Cleric is restrained and cannot burst heal entire groups. What you get from this is large periods of time when you cannot heal, and you are just running around waiting for your heals to fall off cooldown which can be boring as a healer.

My design is attempting to remove the downtime but maintain the controller of forcing the Clerics to choose between healing spam or mana, as the more they cast their spammable spells in short periods of time the more mana the spells will cost or the less effective the spells will become.


Combat:
A long time ago in a far away land, Clerics were a deadly force and I was a Cleric placing 3rd on the 1v1 arenas for weeks. Clerics were not only force as a healer but also as a heavily armored warrior, smiting their enemies for 120 damage while hitting them for 57 damage with each strike of their golden mace. Then there was a great weakening and the Clerics lost the majority of their combat abilities in a quick attempt to reign them in as an offensive AND defensive force and in that it succeeded. The problem is, it succeeded too much making Cleric a pure healing class, that while I could dig it, most players were completely turned off.

My direction for Cleric above was to give it the option of building damage that would at the same time reduce it's healing to prevent a reintroduction of the GodTank of the past. By giving the Cleric several (3 in total) offensive skills, including a personal Melee boost, a thrown potion that provides an AOE smaller then Pulse and a Fireball rip off spell that has to be aimed instead of the automatic Smite Cleric used to have, gives the Cleric an option to build damage at heavily reduced rate of healing, or if the Cleric still wants to build healing but still wants to have the option to defend themselves you have InnerFire. InnerFire boosts your Intellect based on your Wisdom which boosts your combat abilities to a small extent, but then reduces your Wisdom to 0 which will remove the Wisdom penalty from your offensive spells while crippling your healing for a short period allowing them to output heavier damage while preventing them from stacking it with heavy heals.
 
Last edited:

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
Change Log
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7/10/14 - Changed the class name from Diviner to Cleric as it did not fit the purpose or the class.
Minor text updates.
Changed SacredTouch to be useable on allies only and not a self cast.
Changed DivineBlessing to be weakened by Drain Counters
Removed Fullheal and moved HealingOrb in it's place as the level 65 Skill - Fullheal is a mostly useless skill due to it's warmup and mana cost in most scenarios and 8 heals were to many imo :p Thoughts?
Removed the separate thrown Holywater spells and combined them into one. Initially I thought that two spells were needed to keep the skill from being over powered, but since either effect is diminished by it's opposing attribute the damage/healing will be reduced so much by whichever attribute you are focusing, thus eliminating the need for two skills. Thoughts on this?
Added the Skill Power for more skills from Kainzo's skill balance page to the skills.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills Overview:
Statistics
7 Heals
3 Damage Skills
3 Support Skills
3 Other Skills
15 Total Skills

Average Mana user per skill: 14%
Primary Attributes: 4


Heals tied to the Drain Counters
  • SacredWord
  • SacredTouch
  • DivineBlessing
  • HealingOrb
Standard heals
  • HolyAura
  • HolyWater
  • SacredHymn
Damage skills
  • HolyFlames
  • BlessedWeapon
  • HolyWater
Support skills
  • Revive
  • Blessing
  • GuardianAngel
Other skills
  • InnerFire
  • Invuln
  • Dispel
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call Outs
@northeaster345 @Jonsoon @Delfofthebla @Kainzo @gabizou @Dakinara @Jpenguin @Keache @Tjundis @PewPewPewLasers @Leo2596 @Midnight_Storm67 @Ahrall@yeelowsnow @Irishman81 @MichaelRL

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Last edited:

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
TBH gunna be really blunt here, the name is stupid. Diviners (I think that's how it's spelled) are people who practice the art of Divination - do yeah they are basically oracles meaning they see the future/read prophecies
 
Last edited:

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
I think Cleric shouldn't be doing damage and have heavy armor and heals... Not to mention 2 invulns but I've thought for a while that cleric (mostly fullheal) needs to be looked at
I mean 350 mana is a pretty good chunk but 20 second cd? I litterly think that cool down was just added as a joke just cuz it's so short and spammy
 

Faunherer

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Location
Winterfell
How about name it Dervish? Historically they are Sufi Muslim Ascetics who would spend quite a bit of time wandering and they often had badass weapons that were like curved knives on a staff. They were also the name of a kickass state that fought off the British and Italians in the early 20th century.

I also like how there are many paths this class can go based on what attributes you emphasize; very excellent incorporation of the attributes system.
 

Trazil

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
This just seems like you crying for a higher dmg cleric, so lets just take this for example your rip-off fireball would do 120 dmg with 20int which isn't very much to sacrifice considering you can still have around 35 wis and enough points left to add into other stats.
 

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
TBH gunna be really blunt here, the name is stupid. Diviners (I think that's how it's spelled) are people who practice the art of Divination - do yeah they are basically oracles meaning they see the future/read prophecies

Actually I totally agree, I was at odds with even changing it in the first place and almost did this myself. Good suggestion and good points.

Yeah Jup is right. The name is bad.

Agreed

So less "Priest" and more "Battle Cleric"...THIS I LIKE!
This rate the POST damn it! :p
Not forced, but you have the option to opt out of the stronger heals and focus on a more damage route. This would allow Cleric to play similar to it's current style but with more constant action, or actually give players the option to go for a more damage centric build at a good loss to their healing. It would be more like a Paladin that does not have the peeling or cc but has more heals.

I think Cleric shouldn't be doing damage and have heavy armor and heals... Not to mention 2 invulns but I've thought for a while that cleric (mostly fullheal) needs to be looked at
I mean 350 mana is a pretty good chunk but 20 second cd? I litterly think that cool down was just added as a joke just cuz it's so short and spammy

Hmm, well as I said above the numbers would be up for balancing and should not be focused, but lets address the main concern brought up, which is mainly around invulnerability, heavy armor and damage/heals. The closest thing we can compare a Clerics Tankyness to would be Paladin as it has Invuln, more armor then Cleric and damage.
  • A Paladin with a Diamond Sword will be hitting left click for 47 damage per click(not considering any Str which they will have)
  • A Clerics will be hitting for 36 (Clerics should not have any strength)
    • If the Cleric uses his Inner Fire then over the next 10 attacks he will do an additional 60(with 30 intellect) damage (60/10)+36 = 42
So we see here that left click damage from Cleric even when he reduces his healing to .25 of what it was AND reduces his mana regeneration to 20 is still not as high as Paladins normal left click. Then we can compare the attack abilities of a Cleric, HolyFire and PurifyingVial.
  • HolyFire is a skillshot fireball style spell, that does minimal damage unless the Cleric has taken a major hit to his healing, If the Cleric has built Intellect instead of Wisdom the spell will hit nearly as hard as a Wizards Fireball (stronger then a Paladins Bash or Strike in it's working state.) but has twice the cooldown of any of these spells
  • PurifyingVial would be like a throwable mini pulse but it has a smaller AOE as well as twice the cost and cooldown as well as less damage keeping withing the range of a reasonable combat skill for the Cleric to use
So in short, Clerics do gain combat abilities but they are either weak and situation, or at the expense of large amounts of mana, mana regeneration and most healing abilities.

Seems like the current cleric, heals circles around people. It also has a spammable fullheal :(

This is actually pretty accurate, I was not trying to change the healing capabilities of the Cleric so much as I was trying to change them to be able to sacrifice healing for some combat abilities and remove the looooong cooldowns in place of a system that draws more and more mana the faster theier main spells are used. I did add an increase to the warm up of Fullheal based on your intellect but I think at 1/4 of the Cleric mana pool and a 4+ second cast time the only time Fullheal could be abused is in a 2v2 or 3v3 situation where a tanky target is being focus and the Cleric actually has time to spend 4+ second and a quarter of his mana to heal the tank. Any other time its going to heal more and cost less to use the other skills.

As far as Cleric running circles around other classes healing abilities, it's supposed to.
  • Druid has Ports, CC, Buffs, Damage, and Heals.
  • Bloodmage has Debuffs, Buffs, Lots of Damage, and Heals.
  • Disciple has good Melee with a passive heal, CC, Buffs, Mobility, Damage and Heals.
  • Paladin has good Melee, Damage, CC, Heals, Mobility, Defensive skills. Heavy Armor
  • Cleric has Heals and Heavy Armor, Buffs
But ya know what, I think that's ok, there should be a class that is focused on healing. The problem is most people say "Screw playing a class that only heals, never gets kills, and can only function in a group." So what I am attempting to do is maintain the primary function of Cleric as a Tanky Mana Blowing Healer, give the option to opt out of the heavy healing and do more damage. This would change the above list to this

  • Druid has Ports, CC, Buffs, Damage, and Heals.
  • Bloodmage has Debuffs, Buffs, Lots of Damage, and Heals.
  • Disciple has good Melee with a passive heal, CC, Buffs, Mobility, Damage and Heals.
  • Paladin has good Melee, Damage, CC, Heals, Mobility, Defensive skills. Heavy Armor
  • Cleric has Good Heals or Medium Damage and Heavy Armor, Buffs
How about name it Dervish? Historically they are Sufi Muslim Ascetics who would spend quite a bit of time wandering and they often had badass weapons that were like curved knives on a staff. They were also the name of a kickass state that fought off the British and Italians in the early 20th century.

I also like how there are many paths this class can go based on what attributes you emphasize; very excellent incorporation of the attributes system.

Yeah, Dervish is cool but afaik they were not armor clad, so I will just bring it back to it's original name!

This just seems like you crying for a higher dmg cleric, so lets just take this for example your rip-off fireball would do 120 dmg with 20int which isn't very much to sacrifice considering you can still have around 35 wis and enough points left to add into other stats.

Sure, except you did not read the skill so no.

HolyFire is weakened by Wisdom so a Cleric with 20 Int and 35 Wisdom would land HolyFlames that hit for 50 damage 40 + 80(20 Int *4) - 70 (35 Wis *2.) Notice hos even with 20 Int I made the skill to the same as Smite does currently, as well as making it a skillshot.

With my suggestion your combat abilities only kick in when you have sacrificed your healing, either permanently with attributes, or temporarily with InnerFire. The design above does not make a TankyGodHealerWizard. In fact this cleric by will do less damage then the current Cleric unless they sacrifice healing.
Also you mention 20 Int and 35 Wis as a build and although it's possible to build a Cleric this way, it's not nearly as viable as Med End and high Con which would have to be sacrificed to get 20 Int.
 
Last edited:

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
Updated the change log and added statistics -
Removed Fullheal?! I don't like the skill, not because I feel it's over powered, but because it's plain and it's very situational almost to the point of needing to be lucky to use it.
 

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
7/10/14 - Changed the class name from Diviner to Cleric as it did not fit the purpose or the class.
Minor text updates.
Changed SacredTouch to be useable on allies only and not a self cast.
Changed DivineBlessing to be weakened by Drain Counters
Removed Fullheal and moved HealingOrb in it's place as the level 65 Skill - Fullheal is a mostly useless skill due to it's warmup and mana cost in most scenarios and 8 heals were to many imo :p Thoughts?
Removed the separate thrown Holywater spells and combined them into one. Initially I thought that two spells were needed to keep the skill from being over powered, but since either effect is diminished by it's opposing attribute the damage/healing will be reduced so much by whichever attribute you are focusing, thus eliminating the need for two skills. Thoughts on this?
Added the Skill Power for more skills from Kainzo's skill balance page to the skills.

Example of the effects of the new combined HolyWater
Level: 30
HolyWater - Skill power: 80
Mana: 200 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 18 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You throw a potion of Holy Water at your target location. Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (60 + 2 per wisdom point - 1 per Intellect point) health and your enemies in a 5 block radius are damaged for (60 + 1.75 per Intellect point - .75 per Wisdom point) health.

Considering 35 Wisdom and 10 Int
Allies within 7 blocks are healed for 120
Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for 51.25

Still might need some tweaking but I think it could be made to work without be to strong.

EDIT!!!
A much better way to keep the skill balanced more to one side or the other then even above would be this latest revision:

Level: 30
HolyWater - Skill power: 80
Mana: 200 Stamina: 250 Cooldown: 18 Warmup: .5 Reagent: None
Description: You throw a potion of Holy Water at your target location. Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (20 + 4 per wisdom point - 2 per Intellect point) health and your enemies in a 5 block radius are damaged for (20 + 3.75 per Intellect point - 1.75 per Wisdom point) health.

Considering 35 Wisdom and 10 Int
Allies within 7 blocks are healed for 140
Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for 0

If the Cleric uses InnerFire with the same stats as above

Allies within 7 blocks are healed for 0
Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for 142


Considering 35 Wisdom and 20 Int
Allies within 7 blocks are healed for 120

Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for 33.75

If the Cleric uses InnerFire with the same stats as above

Allies within 7 blocks are healed for 0
Enemies within 5 blocks are damaged for 180
 
Last edited:

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
I tried to keep all the skills nearly copyable from other existing skill to quickly template @0xNaomi @Delfofthebla. Seems like even the Drain Counters could mostly be taken from the BloodMages Blood Union and just adjusted so they are not used up but instead time out.

Out of curiosity and for my own understanding how close am I to having most of the skills mostly copy pasta from various existing skills?
 
Top