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Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,518
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#61
It's not just my opinion. It's probably 70% or more of people who played on the server for more than 2 years.
No, sorry thats your opinion :)
Over the last 2 years, we've had 120,000 players that have logged in. The chances of you speaking for even 1% of them is super slim.

But you do you, babe.
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Likes
358
#62
No, sorry thats your opinion :)
Over the last 2 years, we've had 120,000 players that have logged in. The chances of you speaking for even 1% of them is super slim.

But you do you, babe.
Kain, be honest, of those 120k, how many stuck around? Especially over the last year or so.

Who cares if the entire population of the world logged in if no one sticks around to play?

Maybe there's a some of truth to what people are saying here.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Likes
18
#63
No, sorry thats your opinion :)
Over the last 2 years, we've had 120,000 players that have logged in. The chances of you speaking for even 1% of them is super slim.

But you do you, babe.
Yea... He was saying the people with 2+ years playtime. Not over the last 2 years...
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,518
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#64
Yea... He was saying the people with 2+ years playtime. Not over the last 2 years...
The numbers then are even higher, whats your point?
"I speak for the community" - doesn't go well ever. You can speak for YOUR group, but the amount of people who are voiceless is almost endless in comparison to those who voice their concerns.
Its the highway affect. People usually go and rate something very poorly when they feel they received poor service much more often than if they felt they received adequate or good service.

Kain, be honest, of those 120k, how many stuck around? Especially over the last year or so.

Who cares if the entire population of the world logged in if no one sticks around to play?

Maybe there's a some of truth to what people are saying here.
The truth is we've been up for 7+ years. Much longer than any other server. As many others have posted here, its not the "PVP" that made the server alive and fun, it was the staff and the community, people will deal with bugs and issues as long as there's a social connection. Our goal is to re-energize and help the community grow again.

The constant stream of toxicity and server bashing won't be tolerated. If all you do is complain about how bad the server is or the direction we're taking, its probably best just to let it go and find another community to infect (not referring to anyone specifically but a general statement)

We have a plan for Herocraft. Pip and others are very passionate about it and are carrying it forward. Structured PVP is part of that plan, love it or hate it, but its there. Herocraft will never go back to "the way it was" because we can't recreate the community or experience and even if we did, this is a new world we're in, it just /will/ be different. I'd love to go back to EverQuest back in 1999 and experience it all over again with wide eyes, but thats not possible. Its been tried over and over again and its never the same. This is the very same reason why people smoke crack again and again, to get that first "high" the first rush and excitement. You are demanding that I provide it again - its just not doable.

What we offer will be different, because different is the only thing left to do. We've tried releasing PVP specifc maps, pvp centric servers, we tried largely reverting to old rulesets and nothing worked, we've tried our hand at advertising ($3500+ cost) and no one stayed. The path we are on is the only path left for Herocraft to thrive and we need active members of the community to step forward and help.
 
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Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Likes
29
#65
No, sorry thats your opinion :)
Over the last 2 years, we've had 120,000 players that have logged in. The chances of you speaking for even 1% of them is super slim.

But you do you, babe.
This is such an ignorant statement. But w/e. I'll let you believe what you want. It's not like many other people have voiced toxicity isn't a problem. Players that weren't in my group btw.


The numbers then are even higher, whats your point?
"I speak for the community" - doesn't go well ever. You can speak for YOUR group, but the amount of people who are voiceless is almost endless in comparison to those who voice their concerns.
Its the highway affect. People usually go and rate something very poorly when they feel they received poor service much more often than if they felt they received adequate or good service.


The truth is we've been up for 7+ years. Much longer than any other server. As many others have posted here, its not the "PVP" that made the server alive and fun, it was the staff and the community, people will deal with bugs and issues as long as there's a social connection. Our goal is to re-energize and help the community grow again.

The constant stream of toxicity and server bashing won't be tolerated. If all you do is complain about how bad the server is or the direction we're taking, its probably best just to let it go and find another community to infect (not referring to anyone specifically but a general statement)

We have a plan for Herocraft. Pip and others are very passionate about it and are carrying it forward. Structured PVP is part of that plan, love it or hate it, but its there. Herocraft will never go back to "the way it was" because we can't recreate the community or experience and even if we did, this is a new world we're in, it just /will/ be different. I'd love to go back to EverQuest back in 1999 and experience it all over again with wide eyes, but thats not possible. Its been tried over and over again and its never the same. This is the very same reason why people smoke crack again and again, to get that first "high" the first rush and excitement. You are demanding that I provide it again - its just not doable.

What we offer will be different, because different is the only thing left to do. We've tried releasing PVP specifc maps, pvp centric servers, we tried largely reverting to old rulesets and nothing worked, we've tried our hand at advertising ($3500+ cost) and no one stayed. The path we are on is the only path left for Herocraft to thrive and we need active members of the community to step forward and help.
I'm glad you have a plan. I'm just slightly confused on why ask the PvP players for feedback if you knew the answer you were going to get. I honestly do hope it works out like I have said before. I also have said many times you are best taking HC in the direction you want to take it. You already have been the whole time after/during Haven, so may as well fall through with it. If it does become active again then I'll gladly play if it has active PvP.
 

Aneriel

Glowing Redstone
Joined
May 25, 2015
Likes
5
#69
I'd love to go back to EverQuest back in 1999 and experience it all over again with wide eyes, but thats not possible. .
omg more than anything I would as well. Have played on a couple progressive servers ..but of course it's just not the same. Still fun, but there is no way to ever "go back to way things were". Can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that one statement is.
 
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Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,518
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#70
omg more than anything I would as well. Have played on a couple progressive servers ..but of course it's just not the same. Still fun, but there is no way to ever "go back to way things were". Can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that one statement is.
It's true!
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,518
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#72
There is so much I want to say and probably should but I just don't think it's worth it anymore :(
Yet its worth it to lurk and read the forums?

I have faith that @Piptendo, @ele_96 and many others can help bring Herocraft back. It's a lot of work but we're getting there. Theres a new culture and community brewing, and several of them have no "this is how it was and i miss it" mentality. It's refreshing for people to see the server for what it is and not what it was for once.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Likes
183
#73
Yet its worth it to lurk and read the forums?

I have faith that @Piptendo, @ele_96 and many others can help bring Herocraft back. It's a lot of work but we're getting there. Theres a new culture and community brewing, and several of them have no "this is how it was and i miss it" mentality. It's refreshing for people to see the server for what it is and not what it was for once.
Yes, it's worth it to lurk the forums in hope that you will eventually see that the players that have actually been dedicated to your server for YEARS are asking for a change. We want what we once had to come back, not in the exact form it once was but in the correct direction. You are constantly saying that we represent a small part of the community and the rest just aren't vocal about their desires however this is (to whatever degree of truth) is not a correct path to take. If we can't speak for others, neither can you. If they don't say what they want then you cannot just guess. You need to go off of accurate feedback from your community and from players that have been with you for years. Through the rise and fall of Herocraft we have stayed because we want it to succeed.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Likes
11
#74
I've been more on the sidelines just sort of watching the development of the server from a distance for the last few maps, lurking on the forums, not being incredibly involved in game, hopping on every now and then to see new updates, so take that into account when reading this.

I've been with Herocraft since Zeal and it's gone through a great deal of change in that time. Townships, mob arenas, dungeons, trade district, bankers, shit man i remember when Beast Masters were OP as shit lmao. I digress. Herocraft, like anything, changes over time. I agree with Kainzo that things will never be quite the same as they once were because that was a different era with different players of different ages as well as personalities. Just on principle it will literally never be the same.

The last few maps honestly haven't really interested me and it's sort of felt like Kains attention has been divided. I wanna say its been a mix of trying to please a lot of the player base, while at the same time trying to implement new and interesting things to pull new people in (not to mention the fact that this is still a hobby for him) BUT I haven't been active enough on the server to really, truly, honestly conclude this.
@Kainzo Every patch I would hope something different would happen and it never really did. Only YOU really know what it takes to maintain a Minecraft server this ambitious. A lot of people here seem to think they can do a better job but its a hell of a lot easier to give feedback than it is to actually implement said feedback and please most of the community. Like you said if they don't like the direction it's headed than they can leave and make their own server, you were even generous enough to allocate energy and time into a server they deem to be "great" WHILE they continued to shit on your ideas for the future. While their ideas are great in theory, thats kinda it, a theory.

This is just as much your server as it is all of ours but a lot of people commenting on this thread (not all of them) seem to feel entitled to the server suiting there exact fucking whims at all times. If this was a business I would totally agree, you're selling a service and they should get what they expect if they're the customers. This is however NOT a business as you said yourself lol this is a hobby and a creative outlet and you can do whatever the fuck you want with it and people can come and go as they please. I don't understand where this entitled attitude came into play where they think they own like stocks in Herocraft and you're ass fucking their portfolio. This server is not a triple A title that ANYBODY had to pay for. Just Microsoft $20 or so for Minecraft and the server IP, any in game purchases are entirely optional. Aside from that this man literally decided to make a Minecraft server for a bunch of people

Look maybe I'm totally fucking wrong but if people have gripes with the way you run things, then maybe they should honestly just skedaddle and make their own server, and if they don't want to do that then why are they still here being upset? That just doesn't make any sense to me idk
It'd be like ramming your head into a wall and then asking somebody to move the wall and then when they say "no i like where the wall is you should move" you just ram your head into the wall again and then blame them for not moving the wall. Like dude just go somewhere there isn't 6 inches of concrete in your way come on you look crazy running into that wall over and over again.

I understand where the complaints come from and I know you aren't perfect here either Kainzo I'm sure you've made a ton of mistakes during your adventure here but you keep investing time and money into this server so that tells me at least that you don't want it to crash and burn. The way you speak here on the forums I can tell you are incredibly patient, but not a pushover.

I'm rambling at this point but either way.

I'm always going to miss the good ol' days, irreplaceable memories were made within this dumb block game but I'm also excited to see your plans for the future and I anticipate I will return to the server to see what things have changed and what direction you're headed in, as the name "Herocraft" will always hold a special place in my heart. Love ya Kain, keep doing your thing. I honestly hope it works out because I would love to have fun on this server again.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Likes
42
#75
It's certainly fair to say Herocraft literally shaped my expectations for every other game I've played and will play. And honestly, I don't hate the ideas currently being executed for the future of Herocraft. As is stands though my desire to put time into the community and this game doesn't equate to the love and nostalgia i have for it. The amount of inter-personal drama that's occurred in this relatively small group is staggering, which I feel will always lead to a sense of distrust from both Kainzo and the veteran community.

I've been close with quite a few people that have had genuinely valid reasons for quiting the server entirely on nothing more than distaste towards Kainzo. Similarly, I have Kainzo to thank and congratulate for acquiring such a remarkable group I can largely call friends. It was also this group that kept me into Herocraft, and now away from it. Having literally grown up with these people on this minecraft server, it's become nearly impossible to revive interest in the server without them to enjoy it with. It is actually kind of insane how hardwired the community was into this server. To the point that if I'm not playing it with them, I'm not playing it at all. This fact being an entirely personal and human issue I understand.

Still, the amount of veteran opinion being expressed here leaves me almost desperately wishing I could experience those neuro-chemicals again. I simply couldn't see this thread without voicing my opinion. (Yes, I too stalk the HC forums. FIght me.)

I agree largely with J2Gay on the topic of a balance of grind vs risk vs reward. It sums up so well much of how I've always viewed HC, and how it shaped my taste in video games. It also explains the backwards logic of (Sorry Kainzo, but this has been a fairly common thread with games I've loved and seen die), "There needs to always be more features and gameplay and options and mechanics to bring in new players and keep old players!"

There will always be more complexity, interaction, and desire driven from human interaction than any mechanic you could implement. The emphasis was on HARDCORE, and that's what made it hard to quit. 'Cause if you quit then you're just not suited to the server; which from an animalistic perspective is addicting and entirely undesirable. In my opinion, that was how you cultivated such an insanely dedicated community. It was literally some of the best genetic material you could ask for. Through simply letting people crush each other and leaving the interactions to the players Herocraft developed its own history and story.

This whole debate: PVP VS PVE!!! Is legitimately mute, and of no consequence. Becuase in general people don't know what they want. Which was why old Herocraft worked. The hardcore aspect made it addicting and put people into rolls as apposed to letting them choose: PvP or PvE. Honestly though, this whole debate of toxicity is such a fucking problem in this generation. Toxicity is a sign of emotional immaturity, and in general doesn't survive in a hardcore environment. Because it gets you isolated in a mature environment. It's called heard mentality. Once the hardcore nature of Herocraft began to dissipate, and it no longer sated that instinctual part of us, the mature crowd left. So instead of herding maturity and respect, toxicity began to breed.

Such is the way though lol. It takes so much to explain something so simple, because it's really not: All I want is hardcore.

Want to know really the only other game I can get a taste of old Herocraft? Eve Online. But that's much more a thinking game, but similarly addicting. The conflict of where Kainzo is going, to what the community has always been asking for, just seems like a lack of understanding what it was that was exactly so addicting. Kainzo's analogy of cocaine was remarkable accurate. Sure, you're never going to get that first high ever again, but our brains have been forever rewired to be addicted to it. This source of toxicity is likely a symptom of, "Hey, where's my fix!!!"

If implemented right, and not as a replacement for my hardcore drug, I could see grinding for equipment and bosses really fun. Fuck all those generationals who have no sense of delayed gratification. They're not the ones who have the emotional capacity to earn a living and fuck scrubs into the ground on their off time. Grinding sucks. Getting rewarded for it is the best. Getting ganked right as you get your reward is the worst.

You will never top the complexity and excitement brought by intelligent interaction by smart people trying to get the upper hand on each other, Kainzo.

The word count on this post is starting to get insane though. So i'll end it after this parting paragraph.

Nobody wants to move backwards. The term reverting implies this. Trimming and cutting in order to perform more efficiently is not. Think of Herocraft like a body. Whether you want to think of all the added features and mechanics as fat or muscle, it doesn't matter. Are you building glory muscles? Or are you training to be a lethal warrior? If you're just tying to generate looks from being insanely jacked, it will never amount in the real world. Want to try something? Try to aim to be as hardcore as you can again. See what sort of community emerges.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Likes
153
Location
Arizona
#76
Hiya folks,

There was a time when nobody gave a shit if you were PvE or PvP. We all did everything. Flash back: We had a group of BUILDERS compete in a PvP tourny and get second place and even beat one of the "top pvp groups". Woo Templars lol. As the maps went on people started dividing themselves more and more between PvP and PvE and respect was lost between people and towns themselves didn't know how to defend themselves from raiders like they used to. Which we even tried to catered to both groups by offering the split worlds/parts of the map. I got labeled so many times as a PvEr simply because I built shit to try and make a functional town and group of people to keep the server growing(I succeeded to and got to watch the players I helped grow go make their own towns in the future and contribute to the server). I PvP'd plenty of times and won. I eventually PvP'd less and less because all the PvPers decided to mesh into one group and kill the PvP aspect on their own and then complain about it. I grew up in the mix of PvE and PvP in one world and it was the tough/thick skin community we had that made it work, but many of those players simply grew up and moved on which I understand completely. Like Arcanegrove said, many of my original crew from Herocraft also stopped playing because they didn't like how Kainzo ran the server, but it was mostly because Herocraft could have been so much more 5 years ago when you compare it to what Minecraft Mods offered. The main thing was Herocraft used so many plugins and no mods that could have offered a lot to multiple aspects of the game.

As far as catering to PvP or PvE goes, I think many things just came too late to satisfy people. By the time things got implemented people had already left. Toxicity really killed things and that was most because we gained players that had a hard time respecting other players or understanding that the server isn't there to only satisfy their own personal gain and there are more aspects of the game. I'd like to think I handle toxic people okay even inviting them to my town and trying to mold them into better players. I try to think of the person behind the computer and their life situation and not just their actions in game. At the end of the day it is a creative outlet that I still enjoy in however I can. One of the main things I enjoyed was the trade district and I really did not like global trade chest or whatever it was. Just me though. After PvP sort of died down for me, I turned to the economy, then the economy died, and I turned to building. Now I'm stuck in a loop of trying to build massive projects on my own but only finish it half way lol. Also every game I play now I think about how I can "alexhoff" the economy and become rich.

We're also in a new world of gaming than we were way back when. It's not going to be the same. There's a new generation of players to cater to even if they are more babied than we were growing up.

I have Herocraft to thank for so much. Close to even putting on a resume as it has helped grow my leadership skills A LOT. I now lead multiple research groups and clubs at my University and get to mentor new students and Herocraft helped me gain these skills. I personally moved on because I had to focus on college/life. I'll definitely be here to try out whatever is coming in the future if life permits me the time.

Thanks,
Dwarfers aka dofers aka dorfers aka dwafers aka dwaf aka dafers

P.S. People got really entitled to boosts/events and lost the love of the hardcore/community grinding aspect. It's like do you use a master ball to catch a legendary pokemon because you're too lazy to put time into it or are you like me and try to catch it in something harder like a pokeball?
 
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Aneriel

Glowing Redstone
Joined
May 25, 2015
Likes
5
#78
lol. I honestly can't decide if I should go on a rant or just laugh at all of you. Kainzo literally said to come up with some type of structure for PVP and he would BUILD THE FUCKING SERVER FOR YOU. How old are you guys? WTF is up with the sense of entitlement. He is handing you a silver platter and all you can do is spit in the guys face and say it's not good enough. PVP the way YOU think it should be PLUS you don't need to have the necessary skills or time to get a server up and running... Jesus fucking christ.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Likes
6
#80
hey i just got a wierd tought in my head. what if instead of poeple focus on the server itself we fix the toxic community that likes to bully poeple. mayby then poeple who just join the server will stay on here. and dont say there is no way to do that bequese there whas before. half of the world pvp and half of the world pve. making those bullys go to the pvp area and the poeple who just like the server go to the pve.

just a random tought tho. totaly didnt stop with this server bequese the toxic community gone to far to many times.
To all the PvP players complaining here, you're wasting your words. It's time for all of you who enjoyed PvP so much to let Herocraft go, you're all too old for it now. Minecraft is a kid's game, and so Kainzo needs to cater to the kids of the next generation. Take a look at kid's and how they interact now? Its much different from how you acted when you were their age because almost all of them try to avoid confrontation and cry if anything happens to them. Parent's no longer hit their kids, and personally I think that's the problem.

But look, here is someone who genuinely enjoyed the HC PVE experience! I know it appears to be a rare sight, but just look at how he types, completely ignorant of blatant grammatical and spelling issues in almost every sentence. He is in fact a child (or foreign or something). Probably between age 8-10. That is the community minecraft caters to, and therefore the commmunity HC needs to cater to.

Now all you PvPers pick up a real big boy game, and just let HC cater to what is going to be a terrible generation of no confrontation ever. I recommend Rocket League because it's fun af.
 
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