Class revamps + Level Increase

[Delfofthebla]

I've been playing around with some of the new skills, and Samurai is now much stronger than I believe it should be.

The skill "Tackle" is too strong. WAY too strong. I do not think it should be added to the class unless it is reworked from the ground up. Here's why:

1. It stuns, which is immensely powerful. Not only that, it stuns all targets that are between the Samurai and his target.

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Samurai is one of the highest damaging melee classes in the game, and stun is one of the most powerful tools for dealing extra damage to a target. This, combined with the large amount of DoT effects the Samurai has, allows them to burst ANY class (including a fully armored Paladin) from 10 hearts to 0 in less than 4 seconds.​

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This skill being AoE based just pushes it way over the edge. A samurai could charge a target in the back of a group, kill the single target before the stun expires, and then windwalk to safety before anyone can even react.​

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2. This is a "teleport" mobility skill rather than a "physical" mobility skill. (Physical meaning velocity based, like Jump and Backflip.)

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The current Samurai (on live) is tied to the ground. He cannot climb up ledges, he cannot teleport through doors, he can only reach things that are directly in front of him. I think that's how it should stay. With tackle, this is no longer true. They will be able to teleport up walls, through 1x1 holes, through iron doors / glass panes / ect. As long as they can target a player, they can get wherever they want. I do not believe this fits the lore / balance of the class.​

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3. The stun is far too long.

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The stun lasts 3 seconds. This is long enough to use 3 skills on the target while they cannot move or use any abilities. Like I mentioned before, a Samurai can burst a target from 10 hearts to 0 within the duration of the stun. It's too strong.​

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So yeah. I like the idea, but I don't believe it should be nearly as strong as it currently is, and I don't think you can reduce the strength without re-coding the skill from scratch. Sure, you can reduce the stun duration, reduce the range, and reduce the damage, but none of that will make it mechanically balanced. A stun on a high damage melee class that has DoT effects will never be balanced. All the more true if this is coupled with a teleport.

Unless you are willing to recode the ability to be "physical" based, I do not think it should be added to the samurai at this time.

 

[Kainzo]

I've been playing around with some of the new skills, and Samurai is now much stronger than I believe it should be.

The skill "Tackle" is too strong. WAY too strong. I do not think it should be added to the class unless it is reworked from the ground up. Here's why:

1. It stuns, which is immensely powerful. Not only that, it stuns all targets that are between the Samurai and his target.

​

Samurai is one of the highest damaging melee classes in the game, and stun is one of the most powerful tools for dealing extra damage to a target. This, combined with the large amount of DoT effects the Samurai has, allows them to burst ANY class (including a fully armored Paladin) from 10 hearts to 0 in less than 4 seconds.​

​

This skill being AoE based just pushes it way over the edge. A samurai could charge a target in the back of a group, kill the single target before the stun expires, and then windwalk to safety before anyone can even react.​

​

2. This is a "teleport" mobility skill rather than a "physical" mobility skill. (Physical meaning velocity based, like Jump and Backflip.)

​

The current Samurai (on live) is tied to the ground. He cannot climb up ledges, he cannot teleport through doors, he can only reach things that are directly in front of him. I think that's how it should stay. With tackle, this is no longer true. They will be able to teleport up walls, through 1x1 holes, through iron doors / glass panes / ect. As long as they can target a player, they can get wherever they want. I do not believe this fits the lore / balance of the class.​

​

3. The stun is far too long.

​

The stun lasts 3 seconds. This is long enough to use 3 skills on the target while they cannot move or use any abilities. Like I mentioned before, a Samurai can burst a target from 10 hearts to 0 within the duration of the stun. It's too strong.​

​

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So yeah. I like the idea, but I don't believe it should be nearly as strong as it currently is, and I don't think you can reduce the strength without re-coding the skill from scratch. Sure, you can reduce the stun duration, reduce the range, and reduce the damage, but none of that will make it mechanically balanced. A stun on a high damage melee class that has DoT effects will never be balanced. All the more true if this is coupled with a teleport.

Unless you are willing to recode the ability to be "physical" based, I do not think it should be added to the samurai at this time.

Tackle was in for testing - not in for Samurai in its current state. Wasnt in change / revamp notes for that reason.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Tackle was in for testing - not in for Samurai in its current state. Wasnt in change / revamp notes for that reason.

Ah, alrighty. That's good then.

 

[Kainzo]

Ah, alrighty. That's good then.

Most everything is setup... We still have to do some very painful debugging to get decimation and darkbolt in
I dont want to.... going to take 6+ hrs

 

[iHazBryn]

I've noticed that it is pretty inflexible, it's unfortunate that it is. I suggest lowering the slowness by 1 level. I think it is currently slowness II, which would place it at slowness I. While slowness I isn't very powerful, if the Ranger has a speed buff to accompany this, I think it will be balanced enough.

This sounds good to me, I find that once you're slowed with a slowness II, you are an easy target, and just get stuck in a position where the ranger can keep slowing you.

 

[victim130]

So I was looking at the Anathema skill that you have on Clerics. While I know its a healer class, the charge time (Seems to be around five seconds) on this skill seems a bit overkill. I doubt a cleric would ever land it without help. I think it needs reworking, possibly a lesser charge time or longer range.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Most everything is setup... We still have to do some very painful debugging to get decimation and darkbolt in
I dont want to.... going to take 6+ hrs

Yeah I heard that it's giving you guys trouble from Gabi. Would I be able to help at all with it?

 

[Kainzo]

Yeah I heard that it's giving you guys trouble from Gabi. Would I be able to help at all with it?

Its either a plugin or config conflict... not much you can do without having our entire setup cloned several times.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Its either a plugin or config conflict... not much you can do without having our entire setup cloned several times.

Ah. Oh well.

 

[Kainzo]

So I was looking at the Anathema skill that you have on Clerics. While I know its a healer class, the charge time (Seems to be around five seconds) on this skill seems a bit overkill. I doubt a cleric would ever land it without help. I think it needs reworking, possibly a lesser charge time or longer range.

I really want to start going towards longer cast times for more damaging spells - going to test this on cleric

 

[victim130]

I really want to start going towards longer cast times for more damaging spells - going to test this on cleric

Fair enough, I just mean its not going to land at its current state. Not to mention vs a ranger at level 65, it only hits for about 2 hearts after about 5 seconds and if I back step about 4-5 blocks in about 3 seconds, I can easily escape that cast time. I think longer cast times should maybe rely on interrupts/silences where they generally have longer ranges.

Though as a test I'm sure it will do fine and its not like that is the main focus of a cleric in the first place. So I doubt it will break the class any.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I really want to start going towards longer cast times for more damaging spells - going to test this on cleric

I don't think there's anything wrong with testing things out, especially on a class that isn't necessarily meant to do damage, but from my experience on Herocraft, I can say that making this work on other classes isn't very feasible unless you start revamping abilities and adding longer cast times in mass.

Herocraft PVP is fast paced. Players move quickly, and action happens in an instant. There's a plethora of fireworks, sounds and blocky models moving around in a rapid manner constantly. It's hard to keep up at times. Targeting the player you wish to target, and ensuring that you "stick" to them, is a difficult task.

You can ask any pvper on Herocraft--warmups are murder. They feel as though they're harder to target, and they're definitely harder to get off. You're slowed down and you're locked in. You can't do anything other than try to stay in the "dead zone" of your enemy, and hope to god your skill lands. Even still, it's a very common thing for your abilities to be interrupted by their skills, or canceled due to them moving out of range. It's...frustrating, to say the least.

I just don't think that warmups are very fun for most players, and I question whether or not a longer cast time can really fit in in the current Herocraft PVP scene.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Kainzo]

Yup, change is afoot

I want people to have to plan when to interrupt long-casts. Means we'll have to ramp damage up, more than likely and maybe even have a chance on hit to interrupt.

The range for skills will need to be increased to compensate. Right now I think their insanely low for "casters" and not sure why. Normal RPG's have casters AT range and they CAST spells... but yah.

 

[Kainzo]

New healing skills (renamed/clones only mostly)

Cleric - SacredWord (Bandage) - Remove Confusion/Blind/Bleed/Fire -0/ Pray (Remedy) / SacredTouch (chant) / FullHeal
Bloodmage - Infusion (bandage)-Cures Poison / BloodGift (Pray) / ????? (Chant)
Mystic - Soothe (Bandage)-Cures Withering / Chloroblast(Pray) / Chlorobon (Chant)
Disiciple - Mend (bandage) Cures Flame/Bleed / Renewal (Pray) / DivineWord (Chant)
Paladin - Absolution (pray) / Contrition (Chant)
Ranger - ???

 

[iHazBryn]

You're slowed down and you're locked in. You can't do anything other than try to stay in the "dead zone" of your enemy

Would it be possible to have multiple warm up timers active at once, ie, cast bolt, cast another skill, cast a third skill, then bolt goes off, the second skill goes off, and the third skill goes off?

This would remove the dead time.

I also agree, with longer cast times, longer ranges will be needed.

I'm a big fan of slower paced combat. It was at its best mid zeal when all the heaths got buffed a lot. combat should last 10-20 seconds imo, not this crazy 3-4 seconds its currently at.

 

[Kainzo]

Would it be possible to have multiple warm up timers active at once, ie, cast bolt, cast another skill, cast a third skill, then bolt goes off, the second skill goes off, and the third skill goes off?

This would remove the dead time.

I also agree, with longer cast times, longer ranges will be needed.

I'm a big fan of slower paced combat. It was at its best mid zeal when all the heaths got buffed a lot. combat should last 10-20 seconds imo, not this crazy 3-4 seconds its currently at.

No - cast times are channeling of spells - it is not possible or intended to have multiples.

 

[Kainzo]

And here we are...

• Paladin
  • Remove Diamond Leggings
• Dreadknight
  • Remove Diamond Helm & Boots
  • Add Diamond Leggings
• Samurai
  • Remove Iron Boots
  • Add Iron Helmet & Diamond Helmet,
• Dragoon
  • Remove Diamond Leggings
  • Add Diamond Boots and Iron Boots

 

[Delfofthebla]

Here are my proposed number changes that I think need to go through before the update is pushed to the live servers tomorrow. I have mentioned my reasoning behind these changes in separate posts across several threads. I'm condensing it all into one post so that you can easily see them.

WEAPON DAMAGE CHANGES AT LEVEL 65

Ninja:

Diamond Sword - FROM 111 damage TO 105 damage​

Gold Sword- FROM 132 damage TO 124 damage​

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Paladin:

Diamond Sword- FROM 60 damage TO 57 damage​

Gold Sword - FROM 72 damage TO 66 damage​

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DreadKnight:

Gold Axe - FROM 70 damage TO 64 damage​

Samurai:​

Diamond Sword- FROM 93 damage TO 90 damage​

Gold Sword - FROM 103 damage TO 100 damage​

Pyromancer:

Diamond Axe - FROM 89 damage TO 70 damage​

Gold Axe - FROM 94 damage TO 78 damage​

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Ranger:

Bow - The /hero tools for bows seems to be broken. Ranger appears to be dealing 200-240 damage. I think this should be lowered to somewhere around 185-190 damage.​

SKILL NUMBER CHANGES

Curse (DK / Pyromancer):

FROM 50% miss chance TO 60% miss chance.​

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Heartshot (Ranger):

FROM 150 extra damage TO 50 damage.​

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Plague Bomb (Beguiler):

FROM 10 second cooldown TO 13 second cooldown.​

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Harrow (Dreadknight):

Increase block range by 1 block.​

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ShadowStep (Dreadknight):

Increase block range by 3 blocks.​

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There are more changes that I think should be made, but these should be easy to do in the time frame we have remaining.

 

[Kainzo]

Here are my proposed number changes that I think need to go through before the update is pushed to the live servers tomorrow. I have mentioned my reasoning behind these changes in separate posts across several threads. I'm condensing it all into one post so that you can easily see them.

WEAPON DAMAGE CHANGES AT LEVEL 65

Ninja:

Diamond Sword - FROM 111 damage TO 105 damage​

Gold Sword- FROM 132 damage TO 124 damage​

​

Paladin:

Diamond Sword- FROM 60 damage TO 57 damage​

Gold Sword - FROM 72 damage TO 66 damage​

​

DreadKnight:

Gold Axe - FROM 70 damage TO 64 damage​

Samurai:

Diamond Sword- FROM 93 damage TO 90 damage​

Gold Sword - FROM 103 damage TO 100 damage​

Pyromancer:

Diamond Axe - FROM 89 damage TO 70 damage​

Gold Axe - FROM 94 damage TO 78 damage​

​

Ranger:

Bow - The /hero tools for bows seems to be broken. Ranger appears to be dealing 200-240 damage. I think this should be lowered to somewhere around 185-190 damage.​

SKILL NUMBER CHANGES

Curse (DK / Pyromancer):

FROM 50% miss chance TO 60% miss chance.​

​

Heartshot (Ranger):

FROM 150 extra damage TO 50 damage.​

​

Plague Bomb (Beguiler):

FROM 10 second cooldown TO 13 second cooldown.​

​

Harrow (Dreadknight):

Increase block range by 1 block.​

​

ShadowStep (Dreadknight):

Increase block range by 3 blocks.​

​

​

There are more changes that I think should be made, but these should be easy to do in the time frame we have remaining.

Several of these have been pushed... the curse stuff not yet... its 2:30am heh

 

[Delfofthebla]

Several of these have been pushed... the curse stuff not yet... its 2:30am heh

Sounds good.

I have a few more suggested changes after playtesting through the night (and morning >.>).

ArcaneBlast (Wizard):

Add reagent cost: 1 Ender Pearl​

Decrease block range by 1 block​

Forcepush (Disciple)

Increase cooldown by 7 seconds.​

Forcepull (Disciple)

Increase cooldown by 7 seconds.​

QuiveringPalm (Disciple):

Remove until further notice. I'm not really sure I can re-code this one, and the current implementation is too strong for the class.​

ShieldReflect (Paladin):

Increase cooldown by 2 seconds.​

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Duskblade (Runeblade):

Reduce damage by 10. (120 damage -> 110 damage)​

(The healing amount should stay the same)​

I know the Disciple stuff sounds a bit extreme, but the class is very strong right now. The proposed changes prevent him from being able to have so much control over a fight.