Suggestion Caster nerf.

[Demonxman]

ok, I've actually done it so don't talk out your ass until you've actually tested it.

 

[Aetosion]

I'll test it when I get home to my computer.

 

[vudani]

Why would a range class purposefully fight a paladin in a 5x5 space?

Ask why the people crying nerf move into direct range of a Wizard instead rather than insulting your target audience by calling them idiots.

Also, thanks for agreeing that the Necro would require more skill in an enclosed terrain than they would on an open field.

It is a pretty basic principle to look at every aspect of a mechanic and I don't know why you would ignore any aspect of combat as a part of the balance team. To deny terrain being a huge factor in how one plays a class and spec is to ignore we play Minecraft, a game with set rules that must be followed. While it may not affect the pure damage numbers of a class it will surely affect the mobility from class to class or you run into issues of "feeling broken". Not because numbers are necessarily wrong, but because control, movement, skill requirements, etc are causing imbalances in certain situations.

 

[Aetosion]

Yeah. I own melee classes if they're foolish enough to walk into Loch Ness. I also will blink like a hampster with tourettes if you stick me in the middle of mountains for a fight.

 

[Kainzo]

1) Refrain from name calling
2) Refrain from "subjective" information
3) Stick to "objective" information.

Thanks!

 

[Digger360]

Iv'e tested it demon. No difference in damage. Just stops the ticks.

 

[Digger360]

go underwater and caster fireball is useless. the disciple must have sucked, and the pally must not have known how to play his class or maybe these guys aren't max level.

fireball damage is nulled when you're completely underwater

No it's not. It still does 18 base. With fire-protection IV armour, lava barely hurts me, and fireball ticks do nothing to me. I still feel the base damage from a fireball.

ok, I've actually done it so don't talk out your ass until you've actually tested it.

Iv'e tested it demon. No difference in damage. Just stops the ticks.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

what we talking about?

Digger was explaining how if you fireball someone in water, you still take all of the initial damage, but the fire ticks do not continue to damage you.

I think fighting casters in water is actually a dumb move. It's MORE dangerous than fighting on land (depends on the terrain). Casters have to turn around to use fireball, slowing them up, giving you a second to catch up a bit (gap is re-opened with the use of slowing skills), but in water, there is no way to close to gap without a boat... which can be demolished in one hit with a fireball.

 

[vudani]

Haha, you guys are great. I never have fought in pvp with anyone else so how would I know! True! Some people don't understand how to remain reasonable when discussing things they are invested in. I'm glad you all finally agree my point of view. Even though my disposition may read as negative to you, that is simply the reader reflecting their feelings upon the topic being discussed or the person engaged in the discussion.

It's funny that you were provoked, Mellow, that was not the intent ! Maybe if you weren't so ill and would recognize I'm just discussing important factors with important people. Not trying to provoke anyone, just bringing up some suggestions I noticed about the suggestions being mentioned.

 

[Kainzo]

Thread pruned for efficiency. Stay on topic, gents.

 

[victim130]

Something that should be taken into account is the strategy of the two combatants.

Pair a Wizard who spams fireballs and a Ninja who plays his class well.
Ninja should win.

Pair a Wizard who has a strong combo and takes terrain into account to use Blink to the best of his ability, bolts AND megabolts dependant on replenish cd, and fireball to finish off the opponent - versus that same Ninja.
Wizard should win.

Pair a Necro that rotates his DoTs with Fireballs and Drainsoul, and a Paladin that likes to just thwack people with his sword.
Necro should win.

Pair a Necro that just fireballs, and a Paladin that watches his mana- self heals and distributes his combat skills economically and efficiently.
Paladin should win.



My one major problem with HC PVP is the lack of use of valid combination and situationally based attacks. As a long-time Wizard this isn't so much of a problem. I rotate the following if say, fighting a thief: Fireball->Bolt->Mbolt->Replenish->Run like hell-> Blink->Bolt->Mbolt (about 110 damage). If fighting a Dragoon, I may: Root->Bolt->Blink->fireball->Blink->Replenish->Mbolt->Bolt->Blink->Fireball (140 damage, but takes much more time, mana is an issue).

I agree that the problem isn't the casters, it's the proficiency of Rogues in killing them. A Ninja, if engaging a Wizard, should probably: Blackjack-> (One if speed is needed to catch up)->Smoke->Ablade->Garrote->Sword->Sword->Bolt->Kick->Sword-Sword (Deals in the ballpark of 130 damage and keeps the wizard silenced the entire time).

It's all about which order of skills works best in the given situation. I would do something completely different if fighting a theif in a 5v5 arena than I would in the wilderness 1v1 (watch the most recent tournament videos). The problem I often see, is the lack of skill variance used by melee classes, and the equally bothersome fireball spammers (Sidenote: Fireball is being completely changed with the upcoming edition of Heroes that comes after 1.2, once that spamming ability is gone, casters will be balanced).

It doesn't always come down to class matchups, it comes down to your mastery of your class, and familiarity with it. People that flip flop classes, and level up just to master one... meh. I can tell you that someone who has been playing Samurai for a long time, will fare much better than someone who just mastered it. Shoutout to Diffuse and victim130 . Sexy sammies.

He's correct, where I do think fireball is a bit on the up side, its all based on combos and with a nice landed fireballs alone, I'm going to wreck you with sword swings alone. Mind you I use 3 different combos based upon if I'm fighting a runner, close combat with a caster, or some fool who decided to fight me to my face. Casters don't need a nerf, especially with 2 specs that still need reworking.

 

[Flippintuna1]

@teddytazer I remember killing you multiple times and getting virtually nothing from it as in nothing being 10 bread and maybe something else occasionally. while as a paladin I use 17 diamonds per fight. I personally think that how much you need to have on you (warrior sword armor. caster dirt. ranger bow&arrows) should affect how much damage you do. By this i don't mean that if you have 10 gold blocks on you you'll do 100 damage but bare minimum for your class.

 

[Aetosion]

I'll take the 10 gold blocks for 100 damage. That's chill. 100 damage is nice.

 

[Flippintuna1]

lol what i mean is that how much the class needs should be a factor with balancing

 

[Aetosion]

Casters needing items is being worked on by the balance team. We're juggling a few different options of how to do it.

 

[Aburido_burrito]

As I said before, caster should have to have something like a stick or a hoe because it's a bit rediculas imo that a wizard can kill someone with dirt bound to fireball.

 

[Dielan9999]

Well as you can see on the homepage Necro's lost fireball in favor of all drainsoul all the time. Megabolt also requires a reagent. You can expect MORE changes in the future, but we are headed in a direction I think everyone can agree with.

 

[Flippintuna1]

anybody know the regents that are needed now? i would love to know

 

[teddytazer]

@teddytazer I remember killing you multiple times and getting virtually nothing from it as in nothing being 10 bread and maybe something else occasionally. while as a paladin I use 17 diamonds per fight. I personally think that how much you need to have on you (warrior sword armor. caster dirt. ranger bow&arrows) should affect how much damage you do. By this i don't mean that if you have 10 gold blocks on you you'll do 100 damage but bare minimum for your class.

Tell me about it. i recently went back to necro cause every time i died as a dreadknight. i was out 12 diamonds.. and usually had to take 5 mins to re-equip. and dont forget the countless times ive been killed coming back from GY as dreadknight with nothing more then my fists and sweat to protect myself.


But.. in necromancers defence... coming out the graveyard with no reagents sucks hard as well. pretty much limited to drain soul and fireball. So with the 6 working skills of necromancer.. I can cast 4 of thoses. fireball, drainsoin, decay and poison. The last too are recently been added. So yeah you killing me and only finding bread might have something in common..

 

[Carlover1234]

I think people really need to stop bitching about casters. Yes some things are a bit unfair but Kainzo will balance it. I think fireball should have a stick as a reagent. It's easy to make and can act like a wand. Most people use that anyways.