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Suggestion Bring back Dragoon superjump

Yavool

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Location
Spokane, WA
@Balance Team

I think the Sky Knight got hit too hard with the removal of superjump. I understand that it was strong and was being used throughout a fight, but as a signature skill, it should be brought back in a limited way:

Superjump: (as before), cannot be cast while in combat.

This would allow a hard engage, but not allow an easy disengage.

Please reconsider this skill, and implement it back in the Dragoon's skill set.

Thanks :)

-yav
 

batorah

Iron
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
I have personally removed this skill for balance concerns and a "free pass" to easily bypass structures.

We will not be re-adding SuperJump (or at the least in its old form)

ShockTotem, possibly

On rainy days the firestrike totem is not very good, if the shock totem back would be of great help
 

MajDeath

Portal
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
On rainy days the firestrike totem is not very good, if the shock totem back would be of great help
I'd honestly love if the firestriketotems form of damage were changed, the fireballs are incredibly unreliable, they won't hit a target in range if its moving diagonal the totem, won't hit a target if its being hit within totem range by something else... and won't hit a target if its standing right next to the totem.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
Tis a shame. Was easily my favorite skill from Dragoon. I fought it as long as I could, and tried to appease the "non Dragoons" by adding a warmup and all. But alas, the voice of the common noob is louder than that of a Dragoon's, and the beautiful skill was slain in cold blood.
 
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batorah

Iron
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
I'd honestly love if the firestriketotems form of damage were changed, the fireballs are incredibly unreliable, they won't hit a target in range if its moving diagonal the totem, won't hit a target if its being hit within totem range by something else... and won't hit a target if its standing right next to the totem.

Fire helps us lower levels where the damage is not so high
 

malikdanab

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Too bad invuln frames are shit and sometimes fire-ticks prevent you from getting hit by the fireballs.

In the case of goon, Super jump was rarely used in actually combat and was just used to escape.
 

Dakinara

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Too bad invuln frames are shit and sometimes fire-ticks prevent you from getting hit by the fireballs.

In the case of goon, Super jump was rarely used in actually combat and was just used to escape.

used to escape ... from combat =O. I vote for bringing it back but with not usable in combat flag. I know they can just jump away in most 1v1 until out of combat anyways, but the combat flag would still help a lot for non 1v1 situations and such.

Either way, sounds like it aint comin back.
 

malikdanab

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
used to escape ... from combat =O. I vote for bringing it back but with not usable in combat flag. I know they can just jump away in most 1v1 until out of combat anyways, but the combat flag would still help a lot for non 1v1 situations and such.

Either way, sounds like it aint comin back.
If you do that, do the same with jump :p That or make it so jump works like lunge in combat.
 

Yavool

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Location
Spokane, WA
I have personally removed this skill for balance concerns and a "free pass" to easily bypass structures.

It is just unfortunate. I don't even plan on playing Goon this map, but I see how essential it is to the kit. With regard to bypassing structures, it is no different than a Wizard's Blink, or a Druid's Vines...it just gets the job done well. It is versatile, allows for a unique perspective in HC specific to Goon, and requires a town to *think* with regard to their town design. Structures will be bypassed in one way or another, from the aforementioned skills, to pillaring and removing the pillar during a raid afterwards.

With regard to reworking it, I see other spells in Dragoon's kit to be more OP than the superjump, especially Tremor - which has a ridiculously short cooldown for what it does. Perhaps we could consider combining a superjump-esque skill with Tremor, making it a leap-then-pound the ground skill combo with a longer cooldown and no ability to cast when in combat. It would give the superjump a Pantheon-style feel (gotta gank them all!)

I hope you will reconsider. :)

-yav
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
We are removing abilities that give an extreme bypass of content - things are on the docket - these are for adventure changes.

Superjump can completely bypass necessary obstacles / bosses - never mind the combat advantages of it.
 

MajDeath

Portal
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
We are removing abilities that give an extreme bypass of content - things are on the docket - these are for adventure changes.

Superjump can completely bypass necessary obstacles / bosses - never mind the combat advantages of it.
Couldn't it be possible to disable certain skills and abilities in certain areas? Such as enderpearls.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
We are removing abilities that give an extreme bypass of content - things are on the docket - these are for adventure changes.

Superjump can completely bypass necessary obstacles / bosses - never mind the combat advantages of it.
Does that mean that GrapplingHook, EnderPearls, Jump, Backflip, and Blink are all on the chopping board?

You could classify SuperJump, GrapplingHook, and EnderPearls as "extreme" mobility skills. Skills that allow you to bypass a large amount of terrain that would otherwise be impossible to bypass.

SuperJump allows instantaneous vertical movement--great for scaling trees and walls alike.

GrapplingHook provides the same, but is less advantageous in combat. Additionally, the effectiveness is directly proportional to the distance you're attempting to traverse. That is to say, the higher the wall, the more effective the skill. The lower the wall, the less effective.

EnderPearls have lower vertical effectiveness, but can get damn near close to the other two. What's nice about EnderPearls in comparison to the other two skills, is that you can traverse horizontally, but also through small gaps that are impossible to walk through normally. I'd argue that the "distance" is less relevant than the ability to bypass small gaps/holes for this item.

Jump/Backflip are roughly the same, and only really allow you to bypass small walls or a few trees.
Blink is the same, but it has a little bit of the Ender Pearl twist to it. You can pass through "one block" holes that you can not normally walk through. Not quite as powerful as Ender Pearls are, but still quite effective.


----
The keyword here is "Bypass". It may be viewed as "exploity" or "undesirable" by you or the HC staff, but it's actually what makes the abilities enjoyable. I loved jumping over really love walls. I love scaling buildings with GrapplingHook. I love Ender Pearling through a crack in a fence. I love blinking through an open window. All of these things are allowing me to "bypass" defensive measures in a legitimate matter. That is what makes them fun.

We won't be continuing the development of Herocraft under this type of ideology. It's backwards.
I definitely agree with this. I agree with it in the same way that I think skills should never be disabled just because you are in combat. I find both thought processes to be very backwards and I would not like to see either present on HC.

However! Removing skills on the premise that they allow you to "bypass content" is something I cannot personally agree with either. If there are issues with an "Adventure Map" or "Dungeon" that come about from these skills, I would much rather see the map and/or dungeon be modified to accommodate the skills, rather than see the skills be removed or disabled in favor of preserving the 'adventure' components. I would rather fix the "world" rather than alter the skills.


Of course, it's not my decision to make, but I'll say that it is an unfortunate decision to see being made. These types of mobility skills are very fun and I hate to see them purged half-haphazardly. Just my opinion anyways...
 
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