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Bloodmage

Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#2
Could we change BloodBond's passive healing through magic damage from 14% to 5%? It's incredibly powerful when combined with Drainsoul.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
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114
#3
Could we change BloodBond's passive healing through magic damage from 14% to 5%? It's incredibly powerful when combined with Drainsoul.
Does bloodhound heal the caster for the % of skill damage done also, or just party members?
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
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448
Location
USA
#4
Does bloodhound heal the caster for the % of skill damage done also, or just party members?
The caster, too. That's the problem...

You can just easily party yourself and have it take effect. Which is what people have been doing.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
Likes
114
#5
The caster, too. That's the problem...

You can just easily party yourself and have it take effect. Which is what people have been doing.
I don't think that we should lower the effect, because if we did we would most likely have to prolong the effects of the skill be requiring to use less mana or it would be useless. Then it would seem less of a toggle skill and more of a passive skill so it would not have any large impact on the class. I think that we should keep it at the same % but possibly increase the mana cost that it requires when it is active so it is only really able to be used effectively if the bloodmage is in a party. This would make the skill more strategic, skill pretty good and it will solve the problem with bloodmages using it as a personal buff instead of a party buff. (not a buff but i am not sure what to call it). It is like how clerics only use groupheal if they are in a group because it costs them alot of mana.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#6
Eh... A level 18 bloodmage was able to survive 5 Smites, 2 Poisons, 1 Decay, and a few Drainsouls, over a period of time, no armor. This is solely through the BM's Drainsouls and occasional bandage.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
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29
Location
USA
#7
After reading through this, I can certainly say that bloodbond does not heal the caster. I know a lot of you are concerned about bloodmage, so I suggest we take action! I believe Dsawemd has the solution which can be found here: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/project-coordination.33127/

By inscreasing the mana drain on bloodbond, the bloodmage will eventually run out of mana and will be forced to use transfuse in group fights.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#8
After reading through this, I can certainly say that bloodbond does not heal the caster. I know a lot of you are concerned about bloodmage, so I suggest we take action! I believe Dsawemd has the solution which can be found here: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/project-coordination.33127/

By inscreasing the mana drain on bloodbond, the bloodmage will eventually run out of mana and will be forced to use transfuse in group fights.
I do like that... Transfuse doesn't seem to get much usage from BMs atm.

For numbers:
10 mana per 30 seconds?
15 mana per 45 seconds?
5 mana per 10 seconds?
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Likes
29
Location
USA
#9
Since bloodbond is broken currently, it's hard to think of numbers, but the drain should eventually drain the bloodmage's mana to 0 after a period of time. I'm not sure what the numbers would be atm but will think more tomorrow.

In addition to bloodbond, I feel that these skills need a lookin at:

Silence: From a 5 second silence it should probably be something like a 3 second silence.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#10
Since bloodbond is broken currently, it's hard to think of numbers, but the drain should eventually drain the bloodmage's mana to 0 after a period of time. I'm not sure what the numbers would be atm but will think more tomorrow.

In addition to bloodbond, I feel that these skills need a lookin at:

Silence: From a 5 second silence it should probably be something like a 3 second silence.
I agree. A five second silence disables Casters and other Healers especially for far too long.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Likes
214
#11
I'd like to revive this and bring up the current state of bloodmage. We all know the horrors of Bastion's BM, but I think it got hit by the Nerf Bat™ too hard.
Looking over the skills, I can see one major problem. That would be the cooldown of the skills and their warm-ups. Even though the cooldowns are low, the fact that you must wait 1.5 just to deal/gain 80 damage/HP is low IMO.

I suggest that all skills be increased in potency Healing/Damage costs (Health/Mana) and cooldown. Similar to many of my other changes, I'm in the opinion that attributes should be used to their full potential. Depending on the class (especially for Hybrids such as BM) they should be able to go healer/Damage depending on how they allocate their attributes. For Example:

Siphon Blood:
  • Current-
    • Mana: 100
    • Cooldown: 5 seconds
    • Damage: 40 + 1.5 Int
    • Heal: 75% of damage dealt
  • New-
    • Mana: 100
    • Cooldown: 5 seconds
    • Damage: 60 + 1.5 Int
    • Heal: 45% + 1.5% Wis
Infusion:
  • Current-
    • Mana: 65
    • Cooldown: 8 seconds
    • Heal: 65 + 1.375 Wis
    • Cost: 30 HP
  • New-
    • Mana: 80
    • Cooldown: 10
    • Heal: 90 + 1.5 Wis
    • Cost: 35
Even if you don't like my changes (I just threw them together) I'd like to bring attention back to this class so we can discuss some well deserved fixes.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Likes
214
#12
My crazy ideas from ME!

Mind you I don't play BM myself, but that doesn't mean I can suggest damn way to fix it :p
So I was looking over BM's skills and I went over all that "Blood Union" has to offer. IMO the system is overly complicated and provides little benefit. My suggestion is to remove all reliance on the passive and instead make the passive support the skills. To compliment the Union system, I propose the introduction of the "Hemorrhage" system. (Fancy term for bleeding/Look it up) The way it would work:

Maximum Blood Union 20% / 17.5% / 15% / 12.5% / 10% Neutral 10% / 12.5% / 15% / 17.5% / 20% Maximum Hemorrhage
Now, you may be wondering what the HELL you looking at. The it would work is that a DM would start off neutral. If they use a healing spell such as infusion, they would gain a point tin Blood Union. This make all their healing skills heal more. At the same time, if they use a damage spell, they lose Blood Union. Using damage skills will increase your Hemorrhage and increase your damage. To prevent being neutral from being lackluster, once you gained a point in Blood Union/Hemorrhage, you keep it as long as it lasts. So if you consistently switch between damage and heal spells you would have 10% increase in both.

Note- The numbers are just for demonstration purposes.
The point of this system is that it rewards a player to choose a role as a blood mage. While they are certainly viable in doing both, with this they can choose a particular role they want to play and stick with it through out a battle.

Again, I'm not saying this is the only way to fix blood mage, this is just an Idea that would be fun an unique to the class that still fits its playstyle.

TLDR; A new system that makes doing dmg do more dmg / healing heal more hp.
 

Delfofthebla

Coder
Tier 4
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Likes
174
Location
United States
#13
I'd like to revive this and bring up the current state of bloodmage. We all know the horrors of Bastion's BM, but I think it got hit by the Nerf Bat™ too hard.
Looking over the skills, I can see one major problem. That would be the cooldown of the skills and their warm-ups. Even though the cooldowns are low, the fact that you must wait 1.5 just to deal/gain 80 damage/HP is low IMO.

I suggest that all skills be increased in potency Healing/Damage costs (Health/Mana) and cooldown. Similar to many of my other changes, I'm in the opinion that attributes should be used to their full potential. Depending on the class (especially for Hybrids such as BM) they should be able to go healer/Damage depending on how they allocate their attributes. For Example:

Siphon Blood:
  • Current-
    • Mana: 100
    • Cooldown: 5 seconds
    • Damage: 40 + 1.5 Int
    • Heal: 75% of damage dealt
  • New-
    • Mana: 100
    • Cooldown: 5 seconds
    • Damage: 60 + 1.5 Int
    • Heal: 45% + 1.5% Wis
Infusion:
  • Current-
    • Mana: 65
    • Cooldown: 8 seconds
    • Heal: 65 + 1.375 Wis
    • Cost: 30 HP
  • New-
    • Mana: 80
    • Cooldown: 10
    • Heal: 90 + 1.5 Wis
    • Cost: 35
Even if you don't like my changes (I just threw them together) I'd like to bring attention back to this class so we can discuss some well deserved fixes.
I've dropped everything but the wisdom scaling for SB onto test. It's been a standard that heals based off of damage are not scaled by wisdom. I could see us breaking that for bloodmages case, but I'm not so sure I'd like to. We'll see.

My crazy ideas from ME!

Mind you I don't play BM myself, but that doesn't mean I can suggest damn way to fix it :p
So I was looking over BM's skills and I went over all that "Blood Union" has to offer. IMO the system is overly complicated and provides little benefit. My suggestion is to remove all reliance on the passive and instead make the passive support the skills. To compliment the Union system, I propose the introduction of the "Hemorrhage" system. (Fancy term for bleeding/Look it up) The way it would work:

Maximum Blood Union 20% / 17.5% / 15% / 12.5% / 10% Neutral 10% / 12.5% / 15% / 17.5% / 20% Maximum Hemorrhage
Now, you may be wondering what the HELL you looking at. The it would work is that a DM would start off neutral. If they use a healing spell such as infusion, they would gain a point tin Blood Union. This make all their healing skills heal more. At the same time, if they use a damage spell, they lose Blood Union. Using damage skills will increase your Hemorrhage and increase your damage. To prevent being neutral from being lackluster, once you gained a point in Blood Union/Hemorrhage, you keep it as long as it lasts. So if you consistently switch between damage and heal spells you would have 10% increase in both.

Note- The numbers are just for demonstration purposes.
The point of this system is that it rewards a player to choose a role as a blood mage. While they are certainly viable in doing both, with this they can choose a particular role they want to play and stick with it through out a battle.

Again, I'm not saying this is the only way to fix blood mage, this is just an Idea that would be fun an unique to the class that still fits its playstyle.

TLDR; A new system that makes doing dmg do more dmg / healing heal more hp.
Well, I'd like to clarify some things on the current system, before commenting on yours.

BloodUnion is more of a "resource" system than a buff system. You build up the additional resource in order to use your more powerful abilities. The idea is to promote careful choice. Do you keep your blood union so that your skills are more effective? Do you cash it in for a quick save, or for more damage?

I haven't really played BM much since attributes, so I can't say whether or not it is still fulfilling that role, but that's the idea behind it. You spam siphon and combust so that you can deal damage yes, but it's also so that you can continuously use your more powerful skills. The true point of siphon and combust is to feed those skills.

As far as the "complication" factor goes, I think most players that have actually played the class would state just the opposite. It's a common opinion that Bloodmage is just about "spamming two buttons" until you can drop your load on your big stuff. This was intended, but I can't say I entirely agree on it being looked at so simply by other players.

It's possible that the system needs some tweaking to give the class more "umph", and it's possible that it needs to be completely reworked to be something different. As far as your system goes however, I think it would end up being treated very similarly. Players would use abilities as they felt they "needed" them, and would ignore all the buzz that goes on in the background. "Spam damage until you need heals, heal up a bit, go back to spamming damage". Without something to punish for incorrect play, you're unlikely to see any real attention or worth in the proposed system.

Overall, I'm fairly neutral on it, but I will state that I am not really keen on the idea of re-designing and re-balancing their skillset to accommodate it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
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0
#14
I'm wondering what we can do to improve bloodmage.. after the nerf they can no longer graveyard run, which is why they were so strong. I think we need to find a way to increase their viability because at this very moment there is practically no one playing Bloodmage
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Likes
318
Location
Republic City, Earth Kingdom
#15
I'm wondering what we can do to improve bloodmage.. after the nerf they can no longer graveyard run, which is why they were so strong. I think we need to find a way to increase their viability because at this very moment there is practically no one playing Bloodmage
Many suggestions have been given about bloodmage.

Bloodmage needs to be made into a more support like class, move more health and mana around, deal less damage, and have real heals. Most people, including myself, think the class would need a small revamp for this to happen. Making small tweaks don't work. It's what made it unappealing last map.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Likes
0
#19
Many suggestions have been given about bloodmage.

Bloodmage needs to be made into a more support like class, move more health and mana around, deal less damage, and have real heals. Most people, including myself, think the class would need a small revamp for this to happen. Making small tweaks don't work. It's what made it unappealing last map.
I agree but is bloodmage really meant to be a support class? I would see it as more of a go and do over time damage with dots or casts
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Likes
318
Location
Republic City, Earth Kingdom
#20
I agree but is bloodmage really meant to be a support class? I would see it as more of a go and do over time damage with dots or casts
I had the same thought last map. I played bloodmage the majority of the map and got mad when people suggested anything along the lines of making bloodmage more support. I realized later I was wrong. Bloodmage is meant to be support. The bloodunion system started the journey in that direction but the class is still lacking. If you want lots of DoT and casts, go necromancer.

Bloodmage had lots of DoTs last map which gave people the impression, myself included, that the class should be mainly about damage and less about healing. When you make a bloodmage into basically a damage mage you get:
  • Mana issues
  • Conflicting/pointless skills
  • Dmg issues
As a support it would have stronger heals, more widespread dmg (with less power obv), and utility. Things that's it's been lacking for a very long time.
 
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