Bible/come to Jesus

[WoleverEntun]

by real christianity you seem to mean extremist/literalist christianity, and seeing as there's no mention of it in the bible and animals have no decision making abilities on trhe same level as humans they must be carrying out the actions God intended therefore they kind of have to be going to heaven. Another way to look at it is that they aren't as mentally developed as humans, can't make the choices and weigh up the information and aren't susceptible to temptation so they couldn't possible go to heaven or hell because they didn't choose 'good' or 'evil' and don't even have the concepts of good or evil. Another way to look at it is that logic has no place in anything to do with religion but personally I think adding logic and reason into religion opens it up to being much more useful and much more likely to actually help people.

Which is exactly why both Catholics and Southern Baptists are too crazy for me. My pastor (up here in Canada) goes into very interesting interpretations of different passages and tries to instill logic into his explanations of the bible.

 

[victim130]

If I was to view the bible as a realistic religious icon, I would assume it was their way of explaining shit waaaay back, however, it has been adapted by us here in the future. I actually would enjoy to hear some of his ideas, I quite enjoy explanations of things once thought to be far fetched. I think my favorite on a religious topic was about Moses when he "Split" the sea. People think he may have been viewed as parting the sea, but really just made good timing on a land bridge.

 

[HelsEch]

Not to be a prick, but, how is that a realization? You backed atheism so much that you scared yourself into being a Christian? Not important though. Human beings (Of all or no religion, faith or life style.) need to stop being so ignorant. Life is not about whether you will be remembered. Its not about being forgotten or living on in the hearts of others. Its about living. Just enjoy life, you can't let ideals get you down. Plus, who the fuck cares what others think anyways?

We humans try to live based on the ideas our society have. Meaning, murder, stealing and other laws exist (Not to say I disagree with them, but this is my example). If I told someone I could go murder or steal, they would laugh at me and say that I am not allowed. Well yes I am allowed, its just some words a higher up said, he's still just human. Now, I wouldn't ever kill without good reason, so no worries. We follow these words blindly because its our life now.

At the end of the day, you must keep an open mind. You need to realize the world as it should be and how it is. And do me a favor, bob_de_blastoise and other Christians, do not become extremists. Its fine to believe in something if it helps you get through the day, but the moment it starts to dictate your life and the moment you feel that others need to believe too, is the moment you become my enemy. You must let people come to the conclusion on their own,

Life does not care whether you are right or wrong, if you truly wish to win, you must overcome all obstacles.

The Vikings put a heavy importance on being remembered, which is why northern Europe and the British Isles had many bards. At the same time, they knew that you got remembered for living harder than everyone else.

So let's be like Vikings, cuz errybody wants to be a Viking!

P.S. The Word of Helios does not support Viking-like behavior. Do not eat, speak, or breath like a Viking if you are a Heliolyte.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

by real christianity you seem to mean extremist/literalist christianity, and seeing as there's no mention of it in the bible and animals have no decision making abilities on trhe same level as humans they must be carrying out the actions God intended therefore they kind of have to be going to heaven. Another way to look at it is that they aren't as mentally developed as humans, can't make the choices and weigh up the information and aren't susceptible to temptation so they couldn't possible go to heaven or hell because they didn't choose 'good' or 'evil' and don't even have the concepts of good or evil. Another way to look at it is that logic has no place in anything to do with religion but personally I think adding logic and reason into religion opens it up to being much more useful and much more likely to actually help people.

by real christianity you seem to mean extremist/literalist christianity, and seeing as there's no mention of it in the bible and animals have no decision making abilities on trhe same level as humans they must be carrying out the actions God intended therefore they kind of have to be going to heaven. Another way to look at it is that they aren't as mentally developed as humans, can't make the choices and weigh up the information and aren't susceptible to temptation so they couldn't possible go to heaven or hell because they didn't choose 'good' or 'evil' and don't even have the concepts of good or evil. Another way to look at it is that logic has no place in anything to do with religion but personally I think adding logic and reason into religion opens it up to being much more useful and much more likely to actually help people.

Unlike humans, animals are not spiritual creatures, I'm sure there will be animals in heaven, but I don't know about animals from earth going to heaven

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Kainzo Would it be possible to restrict who can post on this thread? That way I can try to keep it on topic and then make another thread labeled commentary where everyone can post. If its too much trouble don't worry about it, but if you could I would appreciate it! Thanks

 

[Kainzo]

Kainzo Would it be possible to restrict who can post on this thread? That way I can try to keep it on topic and then make another thread labeled commentary where everyone can post. If its too much trouble don't worry about it, but if you could I would appreciate it! Thanks

No, this is an open-forum

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

No, this is an open-forum

Okay

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"
- John 3:16

 

[Weikauno]

seven words, people. "Don't believe me. Prove it to yourself."

 

[Fjordsen]

I just though of this, if you had to be a christian, or rather jewish if you wanted to get to heaven in your afterlife back in the BC days how many good ordinary humans went to hell because the first jews didn't come around before 1000 BC? There were civilisations already at 4000 BC with their own religions, what happened to them when the christian god didn't excist untill 1000 BC?

Or we could even go back to the days before the Homo Sapiens began spreading, what about all the other ''human'' races like Homo Erectus and Homo Neandertalis that died out? Did they go to heaven or hell? Or did god simply not care about humans before Abraham?

Even after jesus, most of the humans in the world didn't even know about the christian and jewish god. Only in the mediterrenian did people get knowledge of the christian and jewish religion untill the fall of the Western Roman Empire when christianity was adopted by barbarians. What about all those billions who lived without knowledge of the christian/jewish god for their entire lives? Did your god simply not care? Surely if he could place down a prophet to preach ''his words'' in the middle east, why couldn't he do the same in America, Africa, Asia and Oseania?



Another question:
The christian god is also the jewish and muslim god. Why didn't he stop the massacres of jews and muslims under christian rule when all 3 groups are his ''people''? Why did he not punish the christian group who discriminated jews for over a thousand years in europe? Why did he allow his chosen people to fight between each other over Jerusalem, why didn't he simply give them a message telling them to share?

 

[Weikauno]

I just though of this, if you had to be a christian, or rather jewish if you wanted to get to heaven in your afterlife back in the BC days how many good ordinary humans went to hell because the first jews didn't come around before 1000 BC? There were civilisations already at 4000 BC with their own religions, what happened to them when the christian god didn't excist untill 1000 BC?

Or we could even go back to the days before the Homo Sapiens began spreading, what about all the other ''human'' races like Homo Erectus and Homo Neandertalis that died out? Did they go to heaven or hell? Or did god simply not care about humans before Abraham?

Even after jesus, most of the humans in the world didn't even know about the christian and jewish god. Only in the mediterrenian did people get knowledge of the christian and jewish religion untill the fall of the Western Roman Empire when christianity was adopted by barbarians. What about all those billions who lived without knowledge of the christian/jewish god for their entire lives? Did your god simply not care? Surely if he could place down a prophet to preach ''his words'' in the middle east, why couldn't he do the same in America, Africa, Asia and Oseania?



Another question:
The christian god is also the jewish and muslim god. Why didn't he stop the massacres of jews and muslims under christian rule when all 3 groups are his ''people''? Why did he not punish the christian group who discriminated jews for over a thousand years in europe? Why did he allow his chosen people to fight between each other over Jerusalem, why didn't he simply give them a message telling them to share?

God is not responsible for the choices of men. that's the best way to put it. He gave us free will, and those people who massacred people and did horrible stuff were confused people. They were not clear on what the right thing to do was, and they made bad choices. And as for the people who never heard of or knew of God in their life, they will be resurrected in the second resurrection, when all people will have a chance to learn God's way and live it, and gain the gift of eternal life, even the most horrible of people, who did the most horrible things.(this is only but what I believe, no more arguing, please.(and I don't believe in going to Heaven, I believe in the Kingdom on Earth that will come, replacing all death and suffering, bringing peace and prosperity after an extremely epic war that destroys the entire Earth.))
Edit: answer to first question: nada. zero. cero. none. no one goes to hell when they die. just in the ground.

 

[Fjordsen]

God is not responsible for the choices of men. that's the best way to put it. He gave us free will, and those people who massacred people and did horrible stuff were confused people. They were not clear on what the right thing to do was, and they made bad choices. And as for the people who never heard of or knew of God in their life, they will be resurrected in the second resurrection, when all people will have a chance to learn God's way and live it, and gain the gift of eternal life, even the most horrible of people, who did the most horrible things.(this is only but what I believe, no more arguing, please.(and I don't believe in going to Heaven, I believe in the Kingdom on Earth that will come, replacing all death and suffering, bringing peace and prosperity after an extremely epic war that destroys the entire Earth.))
Edit: answer to first question: nada. zero. cero. none. no one goes to hell when they die. just in the ground.

So hell nor heaven excists, but an eternal kingdom lead by god on earth will excist? Err, I'd like to see god making space for hundreds of billions of people on earth.

I do agree though, the earth will end in a large scale epic war. But it won't be because god wants it, but because it's human nature and eventually our technology and intellegence is so great that we end up destroying ourselves as a race. Probably won't happen soon, but I doubt the time of imperalists is over after excisting for thousands of years already.

 

[EvilThor]

So hell nor heaven excists, but an eternal kingdom lead by god on earth will excist? Err, I'd like to see god making space for hundreds of billions of people on earth.

I do agree though, the earth will end in a large scale epic war. But it won't be because god wants it, but because it's human nature and eventually our technology and intellegence is so great that we end up destroying ourselves as a race. Probably won't happen soon, but I doubt the time of imperalists is over after excisting for thousands of years already.

By the time someone has the technology, political will AND money to do so, and avoid dying in the process, human will not only live on earth. There will be small bases around the solar system, that supply themselves with food, water and such.

But yes, there will be more great wars, that's the natural way the number of people regulates it selves.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

I just though of this, if you had to be a christian, or rather jewish if you wanted to get to heaven in your afterlife back in the BC days how many good ordinary humans went to hell because the first jews didn't come around before 1000 BC? There were civilisations already at 4000 BC with their own religions, what happened to them when the christian god didn't excist untill 1000 BC?

Or we could even go back to the days before the Homo Sapiens began spreading, what about all the other ''human'' races like Homo Erectus and Homo Neandertalis that died out? Did they go to heaven or hell? Or did god simply not care about humans before Abraham?

Even after jesus, most of the humans in the world didn't even know about the christian and jewish god. Only in the mediterrenian did people get knowledge of the christian and jewish religion untill the fall of the Western Roman Empire when christianity was adopted by barbarians. What about all those billions who lived without knowledge of the christian/jewish god for their entire lives? Did your god simply not care? Surely if he could place down a prophet to preach ''his words'' in the middle east, why couldn't he do the same in America, Africa, Asia and Oseania?



Another question:
The christian god is also the jewish and muslim god. Why didn't he stop the massacres of jews and muslims under christian rule when all 3 groups are his ''people''? Why did he not punish the christian group who discriminated jews for over a thousand years in europe? Why did he allow his chosen people to fight between each other over Jerusalem, why didn't he simply give them a message telling them to share?

Man had knowledge of God since the beginning. Adam and Eve walked with Even walked with God. Man had knowledge, but they still rejected God as people do today. That's why God made the flood. To get the people back to him. The Muslim God is not the same as the Christian God. People will always fight because of their sinful nature.

Almost had this thread back on topic too

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

By the time someone has the technology, political will AND money to do so, and avoid dying in the process, human will not only live on earth. There will be small bases around the solar system, that supply themselves with food, water and such.

But yes, there will be more great wars, that's the natural way the number of people regulates it selves.

We already have the technology to destroy the world more than once. With h-bombs 1000 times the power of the atom bomb.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

So hell nor heaven excists, but an eternal kingdom lead by god on earth will excist? Err, I'd like to see god making space for hundreds of billions of people on earth.

I do agree though, the earth will end in a large scale epic war. But it won't be because god wants it, but because it's human nature and eventually our technology and intellegence is so great that we end up destroying ourselves as a race. Probably won't happen soon, but I doubt the time of imperalists is over after excisting for thousands of years already.

There will be a new heaven and A new Earth after the Armageddon.

 

[EvilThor]

We already have the technology to destroy the world more than once. With h-bombs 1000 times the power of the atom bomb.

Nobody will actually dare to use those bombs, ever.
They will need to come up with something different.
No country will send out a bomb, knowing the moment they did that, the enemy will send back their entire storage of close to equal bombs.
(that's atomic war, and that will most likely never happen).

It'll be a great war that will erase tons if people, then each person gets more space, food, water and other needs, and there will be less political struggles that may lead to war.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Nobody will actually dare to use those bombs, ever.
They will need to come up with something different.
No country will send out a bomb, knowing the moment they did that, the enemy will send back their entire storage of close to equal bombs.
(that's atomic war, and that will most likely never happen).

It'll be a great war that will erase tons if people, then each person gets more space, food, water and other needs, and there will be less political struggles that may lead to war.

War is like gravity, sometimes it just needs a push. Someone is going to eventually be crazy enough to give a little push. Then everyone else is going to push back.

 

[Fjordsen]

Man had knowledge of God since the beginning. Adam and Eve walked with Even walked with God. Man had knowledge, but they still rejected God as people do today. That's why God made the flood. To get the people back to him. The Muslim God is not the same as the Christian God. People will always fight because of their sinful nature.

Almost had this thread back on topic too

First: The abrahamic religion started around 1000 BC, there was a very similar religion in egypt a few years before which was based on the same principals as the jewish religion (Most likely a group of israelis adapted to it when visiting egypt and took the religion back home and made their own version of it)

Secondly: The muslim god is not the same as the christian god, yet muslims accept jesus as a prohpet? This makes no sense, muslims are just the same as christians atleast in the founding. Christians though Jesus was the last prophet of the abrahamic religion, jews are still waiting for it and muslims accepts jesus as an important prophet, but claims Mohammed was the final one.

>Jews waits for the final prophet to come
>A group of jews believe Jesus is a prophet and the final one
>The other jews doesn't accept Jesus as a prophet, and continue to wait for their final prophet
>The jews believing in Jesus calls themselves christians and break out of the jewish religion

Time-jump

>Group of people believing in the abrahamic god accepts Mohammed as the final prophet and jesus as only one of the earlier prophets
>Forms Islam based on the teachings of the final prophet Mohammed.



You see, the abrahamic religion was based around the middle east when Jesus came and is why Jesus was accepted as much as he was.

When Mohammed came, the abrahamic religion had spread troughout europe already so only the believers in the middle east got to believe in Mohammed while the others living in europe were skeptical.

So if the christians never migrated troughout europe, but instead stayed in the middle east. Most likely there would be a MUCH larger part of christians today believing in Mohammed rather than Jesus as the final prophet and Islam would become the largest one of the 3 abrahamic religions. This theory makes sense as religion really is just culture, people will be skeptical to foreign religions just as they would to foreign culture which is so unlike their own.

 

[Weikauno]

So hell nor heaven excists, but an eternal kingdom lead by god on earth will excist? Err, I'd like to see god making space for hundreds of billions of people on earth.

I do agree though, the earth will end in a large scale epic war. But it won't be because god wants it, but because it's human nature and eventually our technology and intellegence is so great that we end up destroying ourselves as a race. Probably won't happen soon, but I doubt the time of imperalists is over after excisting for thousands of years already.

I didn't say heaven and hell don't exist, I said no one goes there when they die.(and again, I said clearly this is only what I believe, so don't start this again)