Suggestion Berserker changes

[Avoir]

9- Yes dragoon is probably one of the most worthless classes now when the patch hits. It's mobility will be shit, armour will be crap, impale and spear sucks, super jump is gone, so please tell me how a class to shit is the right thing to do? Dragoon is the new blood age I don't need anyone wanting to play it anymore, I personally won't.

Oh and I forgot left click dmg got nerfed too.

 

[malikdanab]

Oh and I forgot left click dmg got nerfed too.

Ok, at least your statement is more clear than whatever jupiter was trying to say. If kainzo removes the warm-ups on spear and impale, it would do wonders for goon. Kainzo is also planning to replace superjump with a combat skill. Until we find out what that is and how it will effect the class, I think we should hold off judgement of it being up or not.

 

[Moralsk]

Didn't I already agree that rupture is horrendously op? Also, it depends on the match up. Berserker has a very hard time against kite heavy classes and magic-damage dealers. When it comes to melee classes, it's pretty much unstoppable. Also, it really depends who you are facing. It may be easy to play, but it doesn't mean it's easy to play well.

That's in short really what I've been trying to emphasize. The main problem is that most classes can kite berserker with somewhat to extreme ease. Casters I don't really mind, but rogues and dragoon really piss me off because of how easy they do it. Casters should be > than zerker in my opinion, but rogues and dragoons(since rupture was so useless and did nothing against kiters) typically wrecked it before the buff and that isn't right..

Believe it or not people, rupture isn't meant to plainly deal damage, it should be a skill to help Berserker stand against kiters, which there a ton of.

Did rupture buff go overboard? Yes, indeed it did, but if we change it back to 5 damage it's going to be back to no effect at all. Malik and I actually tested rupture before it got buffed (and Malik tested as a Druid as I recall) and it dealt very very little damage to him when he sprinted as fast as he possibly could. So in a real fight when the person is not trying to hurt themselves, it's even worse.

So I do agree that rupture needs nerfed, but not back to 5 damage like many here are calling for.

Also, why is this getting turned into a "oh my god dragoon is getting nerfed" thread? This is about Berserker, if you want to protest Dragoon getting nerfed, then make a thread.

 

[Trazil]

rupture was not useless, and I don't feel it needed a buff, if you couldn't do dmg with it that's your fault at the very least you can toss your target. even if the classes heal is a lifesteal it is still a heal. and @malikdanab how squishy you are depends on your build, and it does decent dmg when at full hp, notice how I said decent and not poor because it isn't poor.

 

[malikdanab]

rupture was not useless, and I don't feel it needed a buff, if you couldn't do dmg with it that's your fault at the very least you can toss your target. even if the classes heal is a lifesteal it is still a heal. and @malikdanab how squishy you are depends on your build, and it does decent dmg when at full hp, notice how I said decent and not poor because it isn't poor.

Don't act like I don't understand the class when I'm one the most knowledgeable about it.

It is a FACT that it is the squishiest of the warriors. If you go back, never did I say that Berserker was squishy compared to all classes, but only to other warriors.

The problem with old rupture was that it was very inconsistent in it's ability to deal damage. In the case where Moralsk and I tested, I ran as far as I could for the entire duration of rupture and it did roughly 5 ticks.

A lifesteal is not the same as a heal. A heal is guaranteed healing. In the case of berserker, it requires you to deal 1K damage in 10 seconds for full effect. And unlike a heal where you can't just kite away and do it. You have to put yourself in danger for it to work. At the same time, a kiting class can just CC/Run away from you.

 

[xMJay]

Ok so nerfing all aspects of goon except for its skills, which it won't be able to take advantage of because of stamina costs sounds cool.

 

[malikdanab]

Ok so nerfing all aspects of goon except for its skills, which it won't be able to take advantage of because of stamina costs sounds cool.

Like Moralsk has said, stop trying to hijack this berserker discussion with talk about Dragoon.

 

[xMJay]

Well I was responding to what you said

 

[malikdanab]

Well I was responding to what you said

Would help to actually reply...

That said, the problem with goons skills is that it's CDs are disporpotanate. While the damage and such of the skills match the CD, the stamina doesn't. How I would fix it:

• Decrease stam costs

or

• Increase damage and cooldown to reflect high stam costs.

 

[JupiterRome]

Srry @malikdanab can't reply in phone, but just cuz you help make or balance a class dosnt have anything to do with your knowledge of the class, tbh it only means you know the original direction of the class, cuz tbh I probs know more about current druid then kainzo and he makes/approves the classes

 

[malikdanab]

Srry @malikdanab can't reply in phone, but just cuz you help make or balance a class dosnt have anything to do with your knowledge of the class, tbh it only means you know the original direction of the class, cuz tbh I probs know more about current druid then kainzo and he makes/approves the classes

It's so silly arguing with you. All you do is say people are wrong without actually explaining your argument. You try to twist facts (and sometimes out right lie) in order to put me in a bad light.

What exactly is Berserker's "New Direction". If I'm not mistaken, this is the first change berserker has had since it's inception.

 

[Moralsk]

rupture was not useless, and I don't feel it needed a buff, if you couldn't do dmg with it that's your fault at the very least you can toss your target. even if the classes heal is a lifesteal it is still a heal. and @malikdanab how squishy you are depends on your build, and it does decent dmg when at full hp, notice how I said decent and not poor because it isn't poor.

1.) It's not my fault that the skill was originally made so buggy and scarce concerning ticks. The ticks were so scarce at times, it couldn't even take a heart.

2.) As Malik said, lifesteal is way different in actual use than a heal. That 200 heal is at the cost of actually fighting, unlike kiters. That 200 hp you gain you're almost sure to lose and then some from actually fighting.

3.) Actually semi-agree here. My only problem I had with left click damage initially was before any of the rogues had been nerfed and were all boasting a near or more tanky build + considerable more damage than Berserker. Berserker has to get pretty low still to match the left click damage of rogues or (current)Dragoon.

 

[JupiterRome]

It's so silly arguing with you. All you do is say people are wrong without actually explaining your argument. You try to twist facts (and sometimes out right lie) in order to put me in a bad light.

What exactly is Berserker's "New Direction". If I'm not mistaken, this is the first change berserker has had since it's inception.

When did I ever say its direction is changing?

 

[Trazil]

@malikdanab you need some class to be the squishiest or they would all be the same so that argument doesn't work and malik a lifesteal is a HEAL and you can't argue that it isn't, where some classes can kite to heal a berserker and go in with bloodrinker and whirlwind, and all they need to do is be close to the target

 

[malikdanab]

When did I ever say its direction is changing?

The part where you said that, "dosnt have anything to do with your knowledge of the class, tbh it only means you know the original direction of the class". Now, that implies that the direction of class is changing or has changed. If neither is true, that would mean my knowledge of the class is up to date and accurate.

 

[malikdanab]

@malikdanab you need some class to be the squishiest or they would all be the same so that argument doesn't work and malik a lifesteal is a HEAL and you can't argue that it isn't, where some classes can kite to heal a berserker and go in with bloodrinker and whirlwind, and all they need to do is be close to the target

I like how you say that when I have been showing my opinion and proof to back it up, while you stay there acting like you word is law and not even defending it.

But the real question is, what argument? I literally stated a fact and then you said I was wrong. I'm fine with berserker being the squishiest warrior.

I find it strange how you keep denying that their is a difference between a heal and a lifesteal. You said it yourself, other classes can just kite and heal, while Berserker needs to attack someone. In the case of whirlwind + blooddrinker, you can't forget that it slows you (and roots you in some cases.) This allows you opponent to just runway/kite you, rendering your combo useless. Now, I'm not saying it's not possible to do, but it's much harder than waiting 2 seconds to regain hp.

 

[Moralsk]

Adding on to this lifesteal vs heal argument...

Ok, they way Blooddrinker currently is, it's almost impossible to get 200 hp when pvping

If you wanted to get 200 hp out of blooddrinker, you'd have to deal 1000 damage in 10 seconds. There's no way berserker could ever deal that much damage by left clicking. Assuming rupture isn't a factor, blooddrinker is extremely difficult to use. Before was rupture was buffed, it wasn't a factor.

Really, the only thing that's making Berserker too powerful right now is rupture, which was accidentally over buffed.

Really getting frustrated by this thread, as it seems the vast majority of people complaining about Berserker know nothing about it.

For example,

go in with bloodrinker and whirlwind, and all they need to do is be close to the target

If you actually knew anything about Berserker, you'd know that whirlwind slows the user, and is extremely easy to kite. Whirlwind is useless against other players.

 

[Dsawemd]

Really getting frustrated by this thread, as it seems the vast majority of people complaining about Berserker know nothing about it.

For example,

If you actually knew anything about Berserker, you'd know that whirlwind slows the user, and is extremely easy to kite. Whirlwind is useless against other players.

People in groupfights can be caught too close to a Beserker as they use this combo, whereas in a 1v1 it will easily be kited.

This was a bad example, as both his claim and yours are true and non-conflicting.

The community will always comment on classes that they know little about actually playing the class, and both viewpoints are valued for separate reasons.

edit: It didnt double quote the quote you quoted but since the quote I quoted was directly above this post it shouldn't be too confusing.

 

[mikehk]

nerf rupture to 12 damage, anyone who is not biased (not raging about being killed by a zerker, or is a zerker and wants to keep high damage) agree? this seems to be the only skill wrong with berserker atm, I can agree the damage (20) is too high, but 5 was too low, causing negligible damage. yes, blooddrinker is a heal, but the berserker often only gets around 100 HP - less against kiters - in a group fight, and it has a long ass cooldown (like 45 seconds or something) and because it's a lifesteal, it varies.

 

[pure_autism]

nerf rupture to 12 damage, anyone who is not biased (not raging about being killed by a zerker, or is a zerker and wants to keep high damage) agree? this seems to be the only skill wrong with berserker atm, I can agree the damage (20) is too high, but 5 was too low, causing negligible damage. yes, blooddrinker is a heal, but the berserker often only gets around 100 HP - less against kiters - in a group fight, and it has a long ass cooldown (like 45 seconds or something) and because it's a lifesteal, it varies.

I just think Rupture's damage should not scale with any of Berserker's damage-increasing skills. 20 damage every block is good for kiting classes but not utterly overpowered.