Balance report (Current HC) + Suggestions

[LightningCape]

Now, it seems like it's been a very long time since we've had a proper balance post. A post that outlines the status of balance on the server at the time it was made and what has to/can be done to fix or change it so I'll give it a try.
Also feel we need more balance team members who actively PvP

Current State of Balance ​

• Some classes are dealing more damage than should be allowed to
  • This is leading to only high damage classes being picked, lots of underplayed classes, and overall PvP becoming "who can do the most damage?". Which leads to the next point

• Healers/Suppoter are lacking and do not play a big enough role in PvP
  • We can deny this all we want but it's true. The current state of damage makes picking healers unnecessary. Making stronger mobs that require groups of people with healers to fight will not solve this.

• Powerful mobility skills create an imbalance
  • This really shouldn't need an explanation. We can pretend that skills like blink and jump are fine but really they aren't. They make classes almost unkillable. Rogues are meant to be hard to catch that's fine. But, warriors and casters? No.

• "Broken classes"
  • This goes somewhat with the first point. Some classes are in desperate need of a direction change/focus. Everytime we ignore this the list gets bigger. Current list is: Bloodmage, Beguiler, and Ninja

Class Specific States + Changes​

• Pyromancer
  • In my opinion this class is well-rounded and does not require any major changes
• Wizard
  • This class has some issues:
    • It can focus only on damage with 0 repercussions and as a result is one of the most played classes on the server. Blink's current state allows wizards to effectively outrun anyone that isn't an amazing shot with ranged skills/weapons.
• Necromancer
  • This class has some issues:
    • Bonespear is broken from when it was first implemented and was never fixed. It was once a slower, wave-like skill that hit multiple enemies. Now it's instant damage with the effects coming afterward AND only hits 1 in a group.
• Beguiler
  • Revamp
    • This class needs major changes. It's currently a shell of its original theme and is just all about the damage. It should be themed around trickery and confusing rather than damage.
• Berserker
  • This class in my opinion is fairly balanced apart from some weak skills like Rupture
• Paladin
  • Same as berserker, balanced but could use "more" (will address changes below)
• DreadKnight
  • Regardless of what some people might say this class is in a good spot, it has debuffs, high burst damage, and decent HP
• Dragoon
  • Apart from the left click damage and the rework to jump everyone has been asking for almost 2 maps now it seems fine. Lower left click damage and (if possible)** make jump behave like a lunge in combat and normally when out. I'm really tired of this "It wont be fun anymore bro" argument every time the community brings this up. Just do it **
• Ninja
  • Revamp
    • After the removal off blackjack (which was good) the class lost one of its best stealth skills. In general the class needs to become more stealth-like.

    • Old idea, but would like to bring it back up:
      How to rework ninja:
      

      • Remove Blitz ( Not only does it not fit ninja [I hate ninjutsu ] it's really loud aka not stealthy)
      • Remove Blind (Will be explained next)
      • Remove the free shurikens from backflip (Skill already has enough utility.)
      • Rework Smoke Bomb: You through a smoke bomb at your feat, blinding nearby enemies.
        • Cooldown: 25 Seconds
        • Duration: 1.5 + 0.035 CHA
        • Stamina: 200
        • Range: 4 block radius
        • Regent: 1 gunpowder

      • MAJOR REWORK: Fade-
        • Fade is now a toggle skill. When toggled it make the user invisible. When active, the users stamina will be drained and his movement will be slowed (Slow I) (This is to prevent them form just using it to get away/chase and to make it more appropriate as if they have to move more carefully) This would allow ninja to constantly go in and out of visability providing a new dynamic to the class.
        • Mana: 25 mana per second.
        • Stamina: 65 Stamina per second ( With this, a ninja wouldn't be able to stealth and regain his stamina mid battle)
        • Cooldown: 5 seconds after you've become visible. You become visible when ever you: Take damage, deal damage, or use any skill (This includes fade which will simply reveal you.)
      • Rework Eviscerate: (Renamed to Assassinate): Same everything, but requires sneak/stealth to use
      • Rework Garrote: OK, IDK what happened here, but when I initially suggested garrote I suggested it as a stun. Now it's just an overall worst skill than kick: (Less damage, Less Silence, Longer Cooldown, Stealth/Sneak requirement.) How I wanted the skill is that when you are sneaking/stealthed you use a string in hand (Doesn't use the string just required in hand) and strangling the target doing damage and stunning them.
      • Rework Backstab: Instead of a damage bonus, make it a on-hit effect that you gain when you have used sneak or stealth (Used once and goes away if you get out of sneak/stealth)

      @Kainzo Thoughts on this?
      I know we aren't supposed "Create new skills," but in this case it's small modifiers and the only major thing is fade which is just an alteration on smoke.

• Ranger
  • This class has some issues:
    • This class falls in the group of popular classes that deal very high damage. Its skill set is great tbh but it deals a high amount of damage with both skills and normal bow dmg
• Runeblade
  • This class is fine it has some of the best dps on Herocraft atm but is kept in check with some weaknesses
• Bard
  • This class has some issues:
    • For a rogue the amount of armor, HP, and damage this class has is horrifying. And I play it. With full chain armor, an infinite speed III boost, and crazy bow damage (130-140) I can get at least 80dmg with envenom and warsong(disc). Needs to be more support-like.
• Cleric
  • Strong heals but that at it really has. Not much to say about it really.
• Druid
  • Strong support relatively balanced but hopefully with a direction shift to support on the server its damage can be reduced.
• Bloodmage
  • Revamp
    • This class has somewhat lost its way imo. Its magic damage is the single highest on the server and for a class that's meant to heal through combat it does a terrible job of it. With the current damage and the push for support classes it really needs a direction refocus.
    • There are threads all around the forums about how to change this class. I made a post about ideas that soonafter died. http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/bloodmage-revamp-2-idea.49785/
• Disciple
  • Some changes are needed
    • @TrueCorruptor Feel free to chime in. Last time malik and I looked at this class it was having some attribute woes and identity crisis with magic and physical damage.
• Shaman***
  • Eh been hearing it's been having issues with damage and heals
    • Will admit I've never played this class apart from the balance tests for it so I cant give an honest overview of it. @0xNaomi

These aren't things that need to be address in the future they need to be dealt with now (yeah that sounded bratty heh). The server always seems to benefit from large balance changes which have been lacking this map. We have to deal with this stuff eventually why not now?

@Balance Team / @Kainzo

Edit-

Making a more comprehensive sum of the suggestions in the form of a more realistic patch note:
Pyromancer-

• No major changes needed

Wizard-

• Lower fireball damage (initial) from 95 to 70
  • The damage of this skills is just nuts being able to kill a class in less than a minute (not a joke) with one skill and kiting is a problem
• Lower blink initial range from 8 to 5 and keep scaling at 0.1 per INT
  • Hard to defend wizard damage by saying they're paper thin and then make it impossible to catch them
• Remove range scaling on Arcaneblast and reduce range to 6 blocks (from 12+scaling)
  • This is wizard's nuke, you can try to run but most people have enough INT to give this skill a 15 block range and deal almost 300 damage. Again, nuts...

Necromancer-

• Lower bonespear damage (initial) from 80 to 70 and if possible reduce its speed
  • Having mastered this class on RPG I can say kiting with this skill is very easy. With around 30-40 INT I can get 140-150 instant dmg

Beguiler-

• Revamp recommend by most balance team members and players. Less damage, more trickery and support

Ninja-

• Major direction change recommended. More stealth!
  • Old idea, but would like to bring it back up:
    How to rework ninja:
    • Remove Blitz ( Not only does it not fit ninja [I hate ninjutsu ] it's really loud aka not stealthy)
    • Remove Blind (Will be explained next)
    • Remove the free shurikens from backflip (Skill already has enough utility.)
    • Rework Smoke Bomb: You through a smoke bomb at your feat, blinding nearby enemies.
      • Cooldown: 25 Seconds
      • Duration: 1.5 + 0.035 CHA
      • Stamina: 200
      • Range: 4 block radius
      • Regent: 1 gunpowder
    • MAJOR REWORK: Fade-
      • Fade is now a toggle skill. When toggled it make the user invisible. When active, the users stamina will be drained and his movement will be slowed (Slow I) (This is to prevent them form just using it to get away/chase and to make it more appropriate as if they have to move more carefully) This would allow ninja to constantly go in and out of visability providing a new dynamic to the class.
      • Mana: 25 mana per second.
      • Stamina: 65 Stamina per second ( With this, a ninja wouldn't be able to stealth and regain his stamina mid battle)
      • Cooldown: 5 seconds after you've become visible. You become visible when ever you: Take damage, deal damage, or use any skill (This includes fade which will simply reveal you.)
    • Rework Eviscerate: (Renamed to Assassinate): Same everything, but requires sneak/stealth to use
    • Rework Garrote: OK, IDK what happened here, but when I initially suggested garrote I suggested it as a stun. Now it's just an overall worst skill than kick: (Less damage, Less Silence, Longer Cooldown, Stealth/Sneak requirement.) How I wanted the skill is that when you are sneaking/stealthed you use a string in hand (Doesn't use the string just required in hand) and strangling the target doing damage and stunning them.
    • Rework Backstab: Instead of a damage bonus, make it a on-hit effect that you gain when you have used sneak or stealth (Used once and goes away if you get out of sneak/stealth)

Ranger-

• Decrease bass HP from 634 to 600
  • For the amount of armor this class generally wears along with the damage it's far tankier than it needs to be
• Change explosiveshot, Add a regent of 1 gunpowder and remove the fireticks
  • Although the function of this skill is currently vital for rangers it's cheap costs aren't
• Lower Aimedshot damage (initial) from 155 to 125 (OR) fix the bug that allows you to fire arrows while charging this skill
  • You can shot high damage arrows while loading a high damage nuke that almost always ends the fight then and there.

Runeblade-

• No major changes needed

Bard-

• Reduce base HP
  • Number up in the air
• Reduce left click damage
  • Number up in the air

Druid-

• No major changes needed

Cleric-

• No major changes needed

Bloodmage-

• Revamp recommend by most balance team members and players. Less damage and more support. Refocus on original theme

Disciple-

• This thread by @TrueCorruptor summarizes most of me and Malik's idea of fixing disciple attributes which are just all over the place
  • http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/disciple-stuff.50057/
  • INT- forcepull, forcepush
  • STR- FlyingKick
  • etc
• Remove FistofJin

Shaman-

• Changes regarding mana, CDs, dmg, and heals. @0xNaomi

Paladin-

• No major changes needed

Berserker-

• Change Rupture bleeding from 5 damage every block to 10 damage every block (still 8 secs)
  • I've seen many Berserkers complain about this skill doing next to nothing in terms of damage. After testing/looking at it the skill does seem to be lacking power considering it's not free to use

DreadKnight-

• Re-add Shadowwalk (Not sure if that was the exact skill name)
  • Skill added variability to the class and pretty much every Dreadknight I've spoken says they liked the skill. Damage can be removed if needed for this to be reintroduced but I feel this would benefit the class

Dragoon-

• Jump revamp
  • Jump would function as the current jump out of combat and as a low CD, small dmg lunge during combat
• Reduce left click damage
  • Class hits like a rogue at the current time. even with the jump change the would be needed

That's pretty much it. Added to OP
@Balance Team | @Kainzo

 

[JupiterRome]

I agree with most

edt: I think rupture should do more damage but not as frequent for zerker

 

[mikehk]

i can agree with almost all of this. I'll go through a list of proposed changes. if a class isn't listed, I either don't know much about it, or it's already been talked about in this thread.

bonespear still hits multiple enemies, which makes necromancer a monster in group fights. with plague, bonespear, and despair, the class has high group fight potential, and still has the dps to be a good 1v1 class. not to mention the sustain it has with drainsoul, which is on like an 8 second cooldown. drainsoul's cooldown needs to be increased, as I've said in another post. if the cooldown is not to be increased, i say make it like siphonblood and restore only 70%~ of damage instead of 120%.

if the bug with rupture (where it does damage every 5 or 6 blocks instead of 1 or 2) is not to be fixed, i say increase the damage to 10~ per damage tick, so it can be equivalent to what it's supposed to be.

for paladin, what if they got fierysoul or whatever it was called last map. where they would have a small chance when attacking with their sword to light the target on fire. I know it was stupid with the MC damage tick invuln period, but what if it simply has a chance to add an extra 22~ damage. small chance, like 5-10% chance.

unless it has already been changed, dreadknight's manafreeze could use a touch-up. atm it costs 90~ mana to use, and lasts 10 seconds. most classes don't even rely on two ticks of mana regen, and almost no class (except for some healers) even have enough mana regen to reach the 90 that the DK used. I say increase it's duration to 15 seconds, to make it more useful. and terror, by default, is a 1.5 second slow/blind, with a 1 second warmup. the 1 second warmup makes the skill almost useless, with you gaining only .5 seconds slight advantage. for this, I say decrease warmup to .5 seconds.

goon, I highly agree, jump needs the change. also superjump should be like enderpearls, where it's cooldown is increased heavily if used in combat. if not doable, decrease armor as it makes no sense to be leaping everywhere in heavy armor, and also having high left click damage and skills with low cooldowns.

ninja's backstab needs fixed. IDK if its with lag or something, but it has a bug where sometimes even when hitting from the front it does backstab damage, and sometimes when hitting from the back (less often than the frontal bug), it does normal damage.

ranger's melee damaged needs to be lessened. it's melee damage is higher than the warriors (cept goon), and it's meant to be a ranged class! and if it's to keep its damage, I believe it's armor needs to be fixed. I am currently a 41 or 42 ranger, have put like 3~ points into endurance and can wear a diamond chestplate, or in my case, an iron chest with iron boots.

runeblade, I say it's good where it's at, where it can easily be pummeled down, but 1v1 can shit on almost anything.

druid, I think it needs a more supportive change. it can win 1v1's easily by kiting then (with 30 int) can pull a 350~ damage combo every 28 seconds. during those 28 seconds you can easily keep enemies at bay with earthwall and entangle, and add a few more ires in there for 161 damage every 6~ seconds.

bloodmage I don't know where exactly it needs to go... it has some of the highest burst damage/heals in the game. Many people say that bloodmage lacks in heals, but use siphonblood and combust blood combo twice, and you've readied (with my build that includes 40 wisdom) a 54% heal. 54% of a target's max health. If you are grouped with a paladin, and that paladin's taking some beatings, you can use infusion and bloodgift on him as to make the most use of your bloodunion, and then bloodritual to where he's gained about 900+ HP from those 3 skills. it's group heals are lacking however, but with it's damage, I do believe it can accommodate.

cant provide much info on disciple

apparently shaman has changed recently? I can't offer much input on that either...

 

[Egorh]

i can agree with almost all of this. I'll go through a list of proposed changes. if a class isn't listed, I either don't know much about it, or it's already been talked about in this thread.

bonespear still hits multiple enemies, which makes necromancer a monster in group fights. with plague, bonespear, and despair, the class has high group fight potential, and still has the dps to be a good 1v1 class. not to mention the sustain it has with drainsoul, which is on like an 8 second cooldown. drainsoul's cooldown needs to be increased, as I've said in another post. if the cooldown is not to be increased, i say make it like siphonblood and restore only 70%~ of damage instead of 120%.

if the bug with rupture (where it does damage every 5 or 6 blocks instead of 1 or 2) is not to be fixed, i say increase the damage to 10~ per damage tick, so it can be equivalent to what it's supposed to be.

for paladin, what if they got fierysoul or whatever it was called last map. where they would have a small chance when attacking with their sword to light the target on fire. I know it was stupid with the MC damage tick invuln period, but what if it simply has a chance to add an extra 22~ damage. small chance, like 5-10% chance.

unless it has already been changed, dreadknight's manafreeze could use a touch-up. atm it costs 90~ mana to use, and lasts 10 seconds. most classes don't even rely on two ticks of mana regen, and almost no class (except for some healers) even have enough mana regen to reach the 90 that the DK used. I say increase it's duration to 15 seconds, to make it more useful. and terror, by default, is a 1.5 second slow/blind, with a 1 second warmup. the 1 second warmup makes the skill almost useless, with you gaining only .5 seconds slight advantage. for this, I say decrease warmup to .5 seconds.

goon, I highly agree, jump needs the change. also superjump should be like enderpearls, where it's cooldown is increased heavily if used in combat. if not doable, decrease armor as it makes no sense to be leaping everywhere in heavy armor, and also having high left click damage and skills with low cooldowns.

ninja's backstab needs fixed. IDK if its with lag or something, but it has a bug where sometimes even when hitting from the front it does backstab damage, and sometimes when hitting from the back (less often than the frontal bug), it does normal damage.

ranger's melee damaged needs to be lessened. it's melee damage is higher than the warriors (cept goon), and it's meant to be a ranged class! and if it's to keep its damage, I believe it's armor needs to be fixed. I am currently a 41 or 42 ranger, have put like 3~ points into endurance and can wear a diamond chestplate, or in my case, an iron chest with iron boots.

runeblade, I say it's good where it's at, where it can easily be pummeled down, but 1v1 can shit on almost anything.

druid, I think it needs a more supportive change. it can win 1v1's easily by kiting then (with 30 int) can pull a 350~ damage combo every 28 seconds. during those 28 seconds you can easily keep enemies at bay with earthwall and entangle, and add a few more ires in there for 161 damage every 6~ seconds.

bloodmage I don't know where exactly it needs to go... it has some of the highest burst damage/heals in the game. Many people say that bloodmage lacks in heals, but use siphonblood and combust blood combo twice, and you've readied (with my build that includes 40 wisdom) a 54% heal. 54% of a target's max health. If you are grouped with a paladin, and that paladin's taking some beatings, you can use infusion and bloodgift on him as to make the most use of your bloodunion, and then bloodritual to where he's gained about 900+ HP from those 3 skills. it's group heals are lacking however, but with it's damage, I do believe it can accommodate.

cant provide much info on disciple

apparently shaman has changed recently? I can't offer much input on that either...

Paladin: The skill you were mentioning was called soulfire (I'm pretty sure) and overall the PvP on herocraft has moved away from these 'chance' skills. Blackjack used to be a % chance to stun your target when attacking and it ended up being changed. Chance based skills are rarely balanced~it is luck. Some fights you could get so many procs that it pretty much wins the fight for you, and other fights you could get barely any; making you lose.

Druid: Its Ire and Bolt do very similar damage. This imo doesn't make the most sense. I think that reducing the scaling on ire and increasing the scaling on bolt would better fit the class. More risk for more damage (the warmup is the risk). Atm you can simply kite around with ire and not rely on bolt because of the minuscule damage difference

Dreadknight: As I stated in the other thread, I do not believe that their CC is the issue. Atm soul leech is set up so after the 20 second period you get 80% of the damage dealt. I don't really understand why it is set up like this, a lot of fights in world pvp don't last a long time. I suggest that we reduce the 20 seconds to between 10-15 seconds (maybe have the time scale with a stat) and have the heal be 100% of the damage dealt.

@LightningCape in theory, yes Dreadknight is good, but you need to remember that they have a lot of warmups. A good amount of classes have something that can stop a warmup (silences, CC, or plain interrupt skills like shockingstrike and forcepush). Most of their damage comes from warmups, and so does their healing. This class can barely survive a fight if it gets interrupted more than once.

 

[Kainzo]

Random/chance skills are a vital part of gameplay. Not everything should be calculated. I never intended to remove Soulfire from Paladin and its something that will be coming back in some shape/form.

Anywho, I've had a rough night but I'll read this soon.

 

[Dsawemd]

Original post:

• Disagree with Blink/Jump change. Mana costs are all that need to be used to balance these specific mobility skills, do not remove/recode.

• Disagree with Beguiler opinion: While it IS a tricky class, at the end of the trick, their nuke goes off. Beguiler is based off that, and shouldn't change their theme of "CC with a bang" without a clear direction to go in.
• Agree with Ranger Change (Nerf): Easily the tankiest ranged damage dealer, ExplosiveShot allows the class to kite easily while doing lots of damage. Combine that with the fact that GrapplingHook can be a Superjump equivalent, and Ranger is too mobile, tanky, and damage heavy. It was nice to see it FOTM for a while though, Ranger for life!
• Agree with the Necro Change (BoneSpear came into the server unexpectedly strong due to the coding of the utility aspect of it): we need to restore this class to it's intended role of DPS. As is, necro's are used as FrontLine Mages, which is good because that is a role that few others besides Pyro's are playing right now. This means I would vote to change the Dmg of BoneSpear before we change the Range or its potential to catch/kite.
• Bloodmage: Try changing SiphonBlood to heal 100% (up from 70%) of damage dealt, like Necro's equivalent heals 120%. See where that leaves the class after a bit, and go from there.

 

[LightningCape]

i can agree with almost all of this. I'll go through a list of proposed changes. if a class isn't listed, I either don't know much about it, or it's already been talked about in this thread.

bonespear still hits multiple enemies, which makes necromancer a monster in group fights. with plague, bonespear, and despair, the class has high group fight potential, and still has the dps to be a good 1v1 class. not to mention the sustain it has with drainsoul, which is on like an 8 second cooldown. drainsoul's cooldown needs to be increased, as I've said in another post. if the cooldown is not to be increased, i say make it like siphonblood and restore only 70%~ of damage instead of 120%.

if the bug with rupture (where it does damage every 5 or 6 blocks instead of 1 or 2) is not to be fixed, i say increase the damage to 10~ per damage tick, so it can be equivalent to what it's supposed to be.

for paladin, what if they got fierysoul or whatever it was called last map. where they would have a small chance when attacking with their sword to light the target on fire. I know it was stupid with the MC damage tick invuln period, but what if it simply has a chance to add an extra 22~ damage. small chance, like 5-10% chance.

unless it has already been changed, dreadknight's manafreeze could use a touch-up. atm it costs 90~ mana to use, and lasts 10 seconds. most classes don't even rely on two ticks of mana regen, and almost no class (except for some healers) even have enough mana regen to reach the 90 that the DK used. I say increase it's duration to 15 seconds, to make it more useful. and terror, by default, is a 1.5 second slow/blind, with a 1 second warmup. the 1 second warmup makes the skill almost useless, with you gaining only .5 seconds slight advantage. for this, I say decrease warmup to .5 seconds.

goon, I highly agree, jump needs the change. also superjump should be like enderpearls, where it's cooldown is increased heavily if used in combat. if not doable, decrease armor as it makes no sense to be leaping everywhere in heavy armor, and also having high left click damage and skills with low cooldowns.

ninja's backstab needs fixed. IDK if its with lag or something, but it has a bug where sometimes even when hitting from the front it does backstab damage, and sometimes when hitting from the back (less often than the frontal bug), it does normal damage.

ranger's melee damaged needs to be lessened. it's melee damage is higher than the warriors (cept goon), and it's meant to be a ranged class! and if it's to keep its damage, I believe it's armor needs to be fixed. I am currently a 41 or 42 ranger, have put like 3~ points into endurance and can wear a diamond chestplate, or in my case, an iron chest with iron boots.

runeblade, I say it's good where it's at, where it can easily be pummeled down, but 1v1 can shit on almost anything.

druid, I think it needs a more supportive change. it can win 1v1's easily by kiting then (with 30 int) can pull a 350~ damage combo every 28 seconds. during those 28 seconds you can easily keep enemies at bay with earthwall and entangle, and add a few more ires in there for 161 damage every 6~ seconds.

bloodmage I don't know where exactly it needs to go... it has some of the highest burst damage/heals in the game. Many people say that bloodmage lacks in heals, but use siphonblood and combust blood combo twice, and you've readied (with my build that includes 40 wisdom) a 54% heal. 54% of a target's max health. If you are grouped with a paladin, and that paladin's taking some beatings, you can use infusion and bloodgift on him as to make the most use of your bloodunion, and then bloodritual to where he's gained about 900+ HP from those 3 skills. it's group heals are lacking however, but with it's damage, I do believe it can accommodate.

cant provide much info on disciple

apparently shaman has changed recently? I can't offer much input on that either...

Seems bonespear was changed maybe? Just tested it seems to be hitting multiple targets but is still instant damage.
Few things

• Drainsoul in no way "sustains" the necromancer
• Ranger is a rogue class and should do more damage than a Dragoon left click wise (warrior)
• Bloodmage
  • High damage yes, high heals not really. Do you know how much int and con you get after getting 40 wisdom? Not a whole not.
  • Bloodgift cannot be used on yourself
  • If you lower the damage it directly affects the heals of bloodbond

Original post:

• Disagree with Blink/Jump change. Mana costs are all that need to be used to balance these specific mobility skills, do not remove/recode.

• Disagree with Beguiler opinion: While it IS a tricky class, at the end of the trick, their nuke goes off. Beguiler is based off that, and shouldn't change their theme of "CC with a bang" without a clear direction to go in.
• Agree with Ranger Change (Nerf): Easily the tankiest ranged damage dealer, ExplosiveShot allows the class to kite easily while doing lots of damage. Combine that with the fact that GrapplingHook can be a Superjump equivalent, and Ranger is too mobile, tanky, and damage heavy. It was nice to see it FOTM for a while though, Ranger for life!
• Agree with the Necro Change (BoneSpear came into the server unexpectedly strong due to the coding of the utility aspect of it): we need to restore this class to it's intended role of DPS. As is, necro's are used as FrontLine Mages, which is good because that is a role that few others besides Pyro's are playing right now. This means I would vote to change the Dmg of BoneSpear before we change the Range or its potential to catch/kite.
• Bloodmage: Try changing SiphonBlood to heal 100% (up from 70%) of damage dealt, like Necro's equivalent heals 120%. See where that leaves the class after a bit, and go from there.

For jump and blink

• We've done mana costs, CDs changes, stamina changes, level changes (I think), and effectiveness changes. All failed. I'd really like to see a real argument as to why a caster should be uncatchable and a warrior should have one of the strongest mobility skills while doing rogue like damage.

Beguiler

• The direction it goes in is more tricks and deception. There's nothing really clever about sending a nuke at someone. It's just been this way so long the nuke is all the people see in this class. Not saying beguiler should do no damage but the current setup gets boring mighty quick and doesn't follow the theme.

 

[0xNaomi]

• Shaman***
  • Eh been hearing it's been having issues with damage and heals
    • Will admit I've never played this class apart from the balance tests for it so I cant give an honest overview of it. @0xNaomi

I'm probably being a broken record, but I call it unfinished.
Throwing aside what totems fit the role, what the role should be and the balance of individual totems for a moment, the system just isn't set up like I was looking at.
Personally, I'd set it up so there are no or medium cooldowns (on totem things, skills still have em | no cd on recall, old cds on totems themselves) and just keep things at a medium to high cost, forcing users who want to keep their game up to juggle around totems until the end. They can just toss around totems for a second each, but they'd run out of all their mana and die.
That's what I was seeing it as, and the current cds just kill that idea of a meta. Instead it's just place down whichever one fits the situation, watch the enemy charge you anyway/run and then probably have one-to-no others to use.
Also, if kain's issue with shock was the sound, that'll be fixed soon enough.
(PS. More targets on ChainLightning pls)

 

[Dsawemd]

For jump and blink

• We've done mana costs, CDs changes, stamina changes, level changes (I think), and effectiveness changes. All failed. I'd really like to see a real argument as to why a caster should be uncatchable and a warrior should have one of the strongest mobility skills while doing rogue like damage.

Beguiler

• The direction it goes in is more tricks and deception. There's nothing really clever about sending a nuke at someone. It's just been this way so long the nuke is all the people see in this class. Not saying beguiler should do no damage but the current setup gets boring mighty quick and doesn't follow the theme.

Dragoons are impossible to catch, if the dragoon wants to run. No one will argue against that, it has always been like that on Herocraft since Dragoon got Jump. It would be a fundamental change to remove Jump so if the class needs balancing it will be somewher else unless Kainzo says.

Caster Blinks are balanced by their low agility and defensive stats, their resource costs, and the fact that now we have variable movespeeds and classes that can mount etc.

As for beguiler, PlagueBomb currently is not hard to land. Ideally the beguiler would use a tricky combo to control the target enough to get skillshots off, but beguiler just chucks sheep like crazy right now, and uses cc only when they get caught out.

 

[LightningCape]

f the dragoon wants to run. No one will argue against that.

Except the majority of the server.

No one said anything about removing jump. Our idea was to have it act like the jump we all know while out of combat and act like Lunge in combat that does minor damage.Although, @0xNaomi is it possible for a skill to act one way in combat but act a different way out of it?

As for beguiler, PlagueBomb currently is not hard to land. Ideally the beguiler would use a tricky combo to control the target enough to get skillshots off, but beguiler just chucks sheep like crazy right now, and uses cc only when they get caught out.

This is basically a description of the current Beguiler; root, nuke, kite and repeat. No theme, nothing special, and highly repetitive.

 

[0xNaomi]

is it possible for a skill to act one way in combat but act a different way out of it?

Fairly certain so. Just a tad complex to explain in a description.

 

[JupiterRome]

if changes did happen .... I was thinking to keep druid in a balanced state but reduce damage maybe reduce ires scaling from 1.75 to 1.25 or 1.2 then reduce bolts cool down from 28 seconds to 15 or 20? ( cuz tbh bolt dosnt do much damage compared to ire for druid)

edit* if this change happened I think druids HoTs need to be improved cuz its down right stupid that clerics instants heal more then druids HoTs

 

[mikehk]

edit* if this change happened I think druids HoTs need to be improved cuz its down right stupid that clerics instants heal more then druids HoTs

druids also have more damage

 

[JupiterRome]

druids also have more damage

yeah but there heals are just silly in comparison, I mean regrowth starts at 120 over 15 sec at lvl 50 while cleric has a 190 heal at lvl 35.... druids heals arnt very good,

 

[mikehk]

yeah but there heals are just silly in comparison, I mean regrowth starts at 120 over 15 sec at lvl 50 while cleric has a 190 heal at lvl 35.... druids heals arnt very good,

compare the damage though, druids ahve 2 damaging skills that deal over 150 damage each with like 20~ int, while with 20 int, a cleric has 1 damaging skill and it only does 60-70 damage.

 

[JupiterRome]

compare the damage though, druids ahve 2 damaging skills that deal over 150 damage each with like 20~ int, while with 20 int, a cleric has 1 damaging skill and it only does 60-70 damage.

I know but its heals are still pretty bad

 

[Egorh]

I know but its heals are still pretty bad

You'd be suprised. I the big fights we just had Pew (as a druid) and some weak heals (me as a shaman and healing chorous) kept the party alive for the most part. The heals are over time. It is more of a gradual difference unlike the instant hp you get from cleric.

Imo Druid is a bit too strong, we need to bring down the damage on ire, and increase the damage on bolt

 

[JupiterRome]

tbh decrease the witdth of earthwall might help to so kiting isn't as easy

 

[JupiterRome]

@Kainzo is there a way to make blinking only work outside of pvp because runeblade and wizard are using to for pve deaths instead of pvp deaths (idk if this is right place but its about balance and I guess dis is about skills so balance?)

 

[mikehk]

@Kainzo is there a way to make blinking only work outside of pvp because runeblade and wizard are using to for pve deaths instead of pvp deaths (idk if this is right place but its about balance and I guess dis is about skills so balance?)

blink should be able to be used in combat, just non-pvp sources while in pvp combat should give the last person to hit you the kill. and this has nothing to do with balance, just ELO that everyone seems obsessed about.