Bloodmage Revamp #2 (Idea)

[LightningCape]

Here is an idea of how I think bloodmage as a class should be atm.
Doesn't seem we've had a lot of revamp threads in balance for a long time and some classes are in need of them.

Ranting

The current bloodmage completely misses its mark in terms of being support "a healer" and being useful in group fights.

The three situations of bloodmage atm:
#1 heal focus

• You run around the fight healing your party with the one good heal you have (bloodgift), run out of mana, die horribly

• #2 damage focus
  • You spend all your time spamming combust, siphon, and boil. You barely take out 1 person from the enemy party now you're out of mana, you die without really impacting the fight and your team hates you

• #3 Do both

• You start your bloodbond, spam your 3 dmg skills, and transfuse to keep it up. By the time you're out of mana, which happens in a few seconds, you're probably at less than half health and your team is most likely getting steamrolled because your heals are terrible.

These are after 2 maps of playing bloodmage and watching others play it.

The heals are terrible. The high damage it has as a healer puts it in very awkward places mana wise.

The class really needs some direction. I feel the best way to do this is to make it more support. It currently has skills like bloodunion and bloodbond but nothing about this class makes it seem to be in any "union" or group. It's gotten so awkward I've actually started calling it Damagemage to myself since that's basically all it's good for now.

How could we fix this?

• Less damage
• Better heals
• Realistic system based around health as a regent
• More support and/or utility

Current skill set

• BloodUnion

• SiphonBlood

• Infusion

• Transfuse

• BloodBond

• CombustBlood

• BloodGift

• ThickenBlood

• BoilBlood

• StealEssence

• BloodRitual

• Awaken

• Enlightenment

Proposed skill set

• Bloodunion (changed)
• Bloodwave
• ClearBlood
• Needle
• Hemorrhage
• Enlightenment (Same)
• Bloodbond (Changed)
• Tranfuse (Changed)
• Awaken (Same)
• Bloodgift (Changed)
• BloodRitual (Changed)
• Siphonblood (Slight Changes)
• BloodTransfer
• ScarletRage

Descriptions
BloodUnion-
Instead of using damage skills to make damage stronger as the fight goes on it'd be changed to make using healing skills on allies
make/unlock slightly stronger heals over time.
Ex:
Current-
Dmg move
+1
Stronger Dmg move
+1
..etc
New-
Heal
+1
Slightly stronger/different heal
+1
..etc

Bloodwave-
Cant say this enough and neither can most people when it comes to bloodmage. AoE heals!
This AoE heal would take a direct chunk of HP from the bloodmage and heal all allies in an x amount of blocks. It's very bloodmage and something like this is long overdo.

ClearBlood-
basically a renamed antidote. Not sure why antidote was removed from bloodmage in the first place. Going in the support direction it needs this.

Needle-
In order to get rid of two very pointless skills, ThickenBlood and steal essence I suggestion we give bloodmage a projectile attack that fires 1 arrow when used. The target hit would suffer from bleeding over x time for x dmg. Most healers, other than cleric, have amazing gap closers and thicken blood's range and effect just don't cut it.

Hemorrhage-
A toggle ability where the bloodmage loses HP every x secs until toggled off and allies are healed for HP lost.

Enlightenment-
Same. Fits very well with the idea of making bloodmage support like.

Bloodbond-
A passive at a high level that would convert bloodmage damage (non melee) to hp for allies. Don't freak out by this as bloodmage is doing far less damage with my new changes than the old.

Tranfuse-
Small single target and direct heal. Cost MANA to cast not HP. Infusion is just the worst heal on the server at the moment. HP as a regent is why.

Awaken-
Same. Amazing utility

Bloodgift-
Bloodmage sacrifices a large chunk of health for an AoE small mana restore to allies.

BloodRitual-
opposite of Bloodgift. Bloodmage steals a slight amount of HP from every party member and gains mana back. Again this fits in the theme of bloodmage, coastally making HP and mana flow around.

Siphonblood-
More HP absorption. Less dmg

BloodTransfer-
Group Siphonblood. Bloodmage uses it's own HP to take HP from the target and distribute it to its party. Bloodmage loses HP and mana in this.

ScarletRage-
At the cost of HP the bloodmage makes blood flow faster in an ally, increasing their strength by x amount.
------------------------------------------------
Like I've stated before the class is currently lost. Kinda like disciple it's torn between two worlds of support and damage. Bloodmage should be moved fully towards support. Less damage and very useful heals.

It would finally fulfill it's original theme:
Bloodmage can only fully heal in combat and that you constantly have to be moving around HP and Mana to keep you and your team alive while only doing a little dmg. The spells will cost the caster HP and Mana and he will gain mana and HP while fighting. It's all about sacrifice.


Keep in mind this is an IDEA. Although I do think the class needs a revamp these skills certainly aren't set in stone.
@Kainzo / @Balance Team / @Delfofthebla

 

[Sirdemonic3]

looks pretty good but i disagree with thickenblood being a useless skill

 

[Licksterboy]

I agree with much of this. Although the first bloodmage rework was great, I honestly lose most of my health from transfusing even with attribute points in intellect, wisdom, and constitution. I don't even bother keeping bloodbond on in fights because it drains my mana quickly and has very minimal heal potential until boilblood is casted (which is currently broken).

Malik and I were talking the other day about this, and we conjured the idea of having bloodmage solely use health as regeants rather than mana AND health as it is the BLOODmage. Malik suggested that perhaps instead of mana regen the bloodmage could have hp regen (maybe only in combat so if the bloodmage runs it can't regen and turn back for a second round without eating. This concept would take a lot of time and balance but we both thought it could be a great change for the class.

Anyway, I do agree with the shift towards support rather than damage, as, like you said, the only current bloodmages use it for damage.

 

[JupiterRome]

I agree with much of this. Although the first bloodmage rework was great, I honestly lose most of my health from transfusing even with attribute points in intellect, wisdom, and constitution. I don't even bother keeping bloodbond on in fights because it drains my mana quickly and has very minimal heal potential until boilblood is casted (which is currently broken).

Malik and I were talking the other day about this, and we conjured the idea of having bloodmage solely use health as regeants rather than mana AND health as it is the BLOODmage. Malik suggested that perhaps instead of mana regen the bloodmage could have hp regen (maybe only in combat so if the bloodmage runs it can't regen and turn back for a second round without eating. This concept would take a lot of time and balance but we both thought it could be a great change for the class.

Anyway, I do agree with the shift towards support rather than damage, as, like you said, the only current bloodmages use it for damage.

I saw that and liked the idea, I like dis idea too!

 

[LightningCape]

looks pretty good but i disagree with thickenblood being a useless skill

In some situations it has its moments but for the most part I find it useless. Its range really doesn't stop running and the CD doesn't make it easy to pursue with.

I agree with much of this. Although the first bloodmage rework was great, I honestly lose most of my health from transfusing even with attribute points in intellect, wisdom, and constitution. I don't even bother keeping bloodbond on in fights because it drains my mana quickly and has very minimal heal potential until boilblood is casted (which is currently broken).
.

Exactly

Malik and I were talking the other day about this, and we conjured the idea of having bloodmage solely use health as regeants rather than mana AND health as it is the BLOODmage. Malik suggested that perhaps instead of mana regen the bloodmage could have hp regen (maybe only in combat so if the bloodmage runs it can't regen and turn back for a second round without eating. This concept would take a lot of time and balance but we both thought it could be a great change for the class.
.

Bloodmage can use both mana and HP as regents for skills. Do all skills have to cost both? No, in fact a few of these suggested skills use either one or the other. Only really strong skills would use both. Blood- HP Mage- Mana. Just how I see it. HP regent on self heals is really bad on bloodmage. Just look at infusion. A passive hp regen in combat seems a bit much to me tbh. If it has ways of getting back both mana and hp while in combat I don't see the issue.

 

[mikehk]

i can agree with most of this (im with sirdemonic on thickenblood). the HP regen thing, what if you had a toggle ability, that instead of regening mana, it would regen health at the same rate of your mana regen. so say you want to use the support bloody part of it, you'd turn on this toggle and mana regen would turn off, but HP regen would replace it (skills like manafreeze would have to accommodate). but then with this, you could simply kite everywhere while hp was regening... so to keep it balanced, you must heal 2 or more targets with HP consuming heals within 15 seconds, or it turns off and goes back to mana. to start it, you have to have the 2 heals as well so you cant just sit afk and regen HP.

 

[LightningCape]

i can agree with most of this (im with sirdemonic on thickenblood). .

Yet neither of you have explained your reasoning behind this. Thickenblood in itself is by no means I gap closer. It's something to you after someone has used an expensive melee skill or before they're about to start running. Generally in both those cases the person is in melee range, is a melee class, and is making you scramble for dmg skills to desperately get out bloodritual that will give you a few extra second of life. The function of the skill is important but it's just not practical tbh.

Also with the mana and HP toggle ideas just overcomplicate things. Even if these are just ideas you still see how once written down there's room for unintended benefits so you have to add more and more complexity to the skill or collection of skills. AoE HP and mana steals, and heals pretty much do exactly what this system does and does it more simply.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

alright i will explain it, as a necro i have famine (weak thickenblood) and i still think it is one of my best skills against any stam class, if it stops them from using 1 skill or they cant sprint even 1 second faster then ya, thats fuckin worth it man

 

[mikehk]

its not really meant as a closer, at least not a practical one, but it's pretty much a silence on stamina classes that also disables sprint.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

its not really meant as a closer, at least not a practical one, but it's pretty much a silence on stamina classes that also disables sprint.

delf says this has his stamp of approval

 

[Delfofthebla]

Your description of BloodMage combat and the outcome of using skills in the way you've described is very awkward and frankly, untrue. All I can really say is that you are clearly missing the point of the class, and are not playing it properly. But I know you're a healer type of player, and Bloodmage was designed to be the least healing based healer. If the class isn't what you want it to be, it isn't what you want it to be, but does that mean it needs a rework?

However,

its not really meant as a closer, at least not a practical one, but it's pretty much a silence on stamina classes that also disables sprint.

This is correct.

Bloodmage was not meant to have a "gap closer". ThickenBlood is an "offensive support" type skill. A "melee silence" with a potential slow attached, so to speak.

I think it's important to really understand the current mechanics (and why they exist) before deciding that they should be removed or reworked, but this kind of topic is very frequent for this class, so perhaps the class is just too complex for people to understand the design.

I'll also agree that it's definitely been on both the over and under sides of power from the moment I revamped it, and has had trouble finding it's place, especially with attributes. So perhaps a rework is necessary. But my personal opinion is that Bloodmage should be unable to heal (effectively) without having to do damage. The heals should come from sacrificing himself, or sacrificing his enemies. The damage doesn't necessarily have to be high, but he should have to deal damage to heal his allies. A few utility skills are welcomed, but they are not meant to be the "support" class that other healer types are considered.

From your post, it's clear you have a different view for the core design of the class. Maybe yours is better, maybe it isn't. But due to that, you'd have to grab Naomi for this one, as I'm unlikely to get behind it.

 

[LightningCape]

I'll also agree that it's definitely been on both the over and under sides of power from the moment I revamped it, and has had trouble finding it's place, especially with attributes. So perhaps a rework is necessary. But my personal opinion is that Bloodmage should be unable to heal (effectively) without having to do damage. The heals should come from sacrificing himself, or sacrificing his enemies. The damage doesn't necessarily have to be high, but he should have to deal damage to heal his allies. A few utility skills are welcomed, but they are not meant to be the "support" class that other healer types are consider

Like I said these are just ideas to go in a different direction.
I've played this class for quite some time and I'm just stating the current truths of this class atm:

• If the goal was to not give bloodmage very high damage, it's failed.
• If the goal was to have bloodmage properly heal its allies through damage, it's failed.
• If the goal was to turn bloodmage into a powerful mage with a heal here and there all while being in the "healer" archetype, it's worked!

Making it more support would emphasize healing through sacrifice so I'm not sure how changing the direction of the class from what it is now with attributes "DamageMage" to something that is what the class was originally meant to be is "us not understanding the class". This class is not hard to understand the concept of. Heals through damage, sacrifice, and moving HP around. Does it currently accomplish any of that effectively? Nope. Hence why I feel a revamp is in order. There's a reason why the combat I described is so awkward for bloodmage and that's because the class is in a really awkward position.

I'm not saying the class at this time is weak by any means. I've certainly wiped the floor with people this map and a lot last map I'm just suggesting that to get bloodmage out of its current awkward state, make it fit its theme more, and balance it overall it needs some kind of change.

 

[JupiterRome]

I say a skill that would be cool would be if your party (or just you) gains X amount of hp and X amount of mana from killing something
(sorry its early and I just thought about this, ik its a sucky description)

 

[Delfofthebla]

Making it more support would emphasize healing through sacrifice so I'm not sure how changing the direction of the class from what it is now with attributes "DamageMage" to something that is what the class was originally meant to be is "us not understanding the class". This class is not hard to understand the concept of. Heals through damage, sacrifice, and moving HP around. Does it currently accomplish any of that effectively? Nope.

How does it not accomplish any of that effectively?

You build up BloodUnion by damaging enemies. One of the skills required to do this is SiphonBlood. It moves health from the target, to you. +1
Through BloodBond, you are moving health from your enemies, to yourself as well as your group. +1
Bloodmage has very large mana costs, causing it to run dry very quickly. Transmutation absorbs your hp for mana +1.
After damaging an opponent long enough and building high Blood Union, you can use those points to either cause large aoe damage, healing all nearby party members +1, or cause a large burst heal on one target, +1.

Outside of normal damaging abilities, you can use your HP to heal your allies with Infusion +1, and BloodGift +1.

I'm counting 6 different ways that you "move health around" from either you or your opponents. If you don't feel like counting transmutation, then that's fine--it's 5. However, transmutation was meant to be the bread and butter of the class. It's how you convert your blood to magic.

• If the goal was to not give bloodmage very high damage, it's failed.
• If the goal was to have bloodmage properly heal its allies through damage, it's failed.
• If the goal was to turn bloodmage into a powerful mage with a heal here and there all while being in the "healer" archetype, it's worked!

Here are the design points that I set for the BloodMage class when creating it.

• It is meant to do the most damage out of all healer types.
• It is meant to do the least amount of healing out of all healer types.
• It is meant to have a low number of support skills.
• It is meant to be forced to deal damage and distribute a percentage of that damage as a heal to his group members.

So, to fulfill these points, this is the general train of though one should take.

• If their damage is too high for a healer, or two low to fit the category, that is something that I or the balance team would address.
• If their healing is not high enough to be viable, but is outhealing other healers, that is something that I or the balance team would address.
• If their support skills are providing a usefulness that outperforms Mystic, Cleric, or Disciple, that is something that I or the balance team would address.
• If they are able to effectively heal without having to deal damage to enemies, or isn't healing well enough when he does do damage, that is something that I or the balance team would address.

-------------

Are you saying that with the current skillset, the above mentioned criteria is impossible to obtain? Do you disagree with the amount of instances I stated you are "moving health around"? If so, power to you. I'll back down and leave you to it. All I can say is that the BloodMage on Herocraft is how I would accomplish the aforementioned criteria. Was it the best way to do it? Couldn't tell ya, but that's how I did it, and I would do it the same way again.

One last thing though...some of your revamp stuff seems fine, but this caught my eye:

Needle-
In order to get rid of two very pointless skills, ThickenBlood and steal essence I suggestion we give bloodmage a projectile attack that fires 1 arrow when used. The target hit would suffer from bleeding over x time for x dmg. Most healers, other than cleric, have amazing gap closers and thicken blood's range and effect just don't cut it.

ThickenBlood is by far one of the most powerful abilities in the game. It is the only form of melee silence, and doubles as a nice slow if you time it correctly. A ranged class does not need a "gap closer", and BloodMage espcially doesn't need one, being the healer that it is.

StealEssence was once the same, but now that there are no longer any classes with a true Speed 3 buff, perhaps it's managed to fade into the background. However I really think you are grossly underestimating these abilities, and that makes me question the way you play, as well as how you treat the balance of the class as a whole. Any decent PvPer should be able to understand the power of these two abilities, regardless of what class they are placed on.

 

[LightningCape]

How does it not accomplish any of that effectively?

You build up BloodUnion by damaging enemies. One of the skills required to do this is SiphonBlood. It moves health from the target, to you. +1
Through BloodBond, you are moving health from your enemies, to yourself as well as your group. +1
Bloodmage has very large mana costs, causing it to run dry very quickly. Transmutation absorbs your hp for mana +1.
After damaging an opponent long enough and building high Blood Union, you can use those points to either cause large aoe damage, healing all nearby party members +1, or cause a large burst heal on one target, +1.

Outside of normal damaging abilities, you can use your HP to heal your allies with Infusion +1, and BloodGift +1.

Are you saying that with the current skillset, the above mentioned criteria is impossible to obtain? Do you disagree with the amount of instances I stated you are "moving health around"? If so, power to you. I'll back down and leave you to it. .

With the current skills with their current numbers yes I find it hard to accomplish what you and I describe as "how bloodmage should be". Infusion is only decent at max bloodunion level and at that point you'd be more useful throwing out damage.

Food for thought:
- All numbers are with 30 Intellect (The attribute that scales damage skills for bloodmage)
I throw up a bloodbond. I'm now losing 40 mana ever 3 seconds and healing worth 25% to my allies per my damage skills. I start off with combustblood which heals the party for around 25 HP. Next siphonblood. That heals the party by 21 HP. Then another combust giving me 25. Then boilblood. Gives around 28 HP outright and 31 over 12 secs.

-Keep in mind I've still been losing 40 mana every 3 secs
-Spent 460 mana around (40% of my total) + the above /\
- Have healed my party for a grand total of 130 HP...

That heal number seem right? Bloodmage has a single target heal that does more than that. I know bloodmage is meant to have the weakest heals but...that weak? It's nothing.

ThickenBlood is by far one of the most powerful abilities in the game. It is the only form of melee silence, and doubles as a nice slow if you time it correctly. A ranged class does not need a "gap closer", and BloodMage especially doesn't need one, being the healer that it is.

StealEssence was once the same, but now that there are no longer any classes with a true Speed 3 buff, perhaps it's managed to fade into the background. However I really think you are grossly underestimating these abilities, and that makes me question the way you play, as well as how you treat the balance of the class as a whole. Any decent PvPer should be able to understand the power of these two abilities, regardless of what class they are placed on.

Yeah pointless is not really what I meant. Poor wording. I guess I meant to say is in the event of a new skill set they'd become irrelevant.

BoilBlood is currently the strongest magic skill in game atm. @ 30 int
-Bolt = 200 dmg
-Plague Bomb= 211 dmg
- BoilBlood= 237 dmg

 

[mikehk]

boilblood's scaling is weird... imo, it should have a lower base and scale higher.
100+.375 per int instant
108+.6 per int over 12 seconds
CHANGED
70+1 per int instant (overall slightly less with 30 int)
60+1.8 per int over 12 seconds (also slightly less at 30 int, same at 40)(10+.3 per int every 2 seconds)