Sidgil
Legacy Supporter 3
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2011
- Location
- Washington, USA
THIS IS NOT MINECRAFT. THIS IS HEROCRAFT. THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT, THE MONSTERS ARE HARDCORE, AND THE WORLD IS OUT TO KILL YOU. STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.
Woah man. Chillax with those caps.THIS IS NOT MINECRAFT. THIS IS HEROCRAFT. THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT, THE MONSTERS ARE HARDCORE, AND THE WORLD IS OUT TO KILL YOU. STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.
*Looks at self*This is the internet. You won't find ethics here.
Woah man. Chillax with those caps.
*Looks at self*
:<
This is a hardcore RPG server. There will be groups of players who only want loot, money, levels, etc.
We're still working on making it more appealing to be a "Good" player but it's not something easily done. We've made giant strides for new players on this server and I think we are 100% on the right track.
Herocraft WANTS karma to play a role in every day crafting. The spoils of war are vast at the moment and the repercussions are very small in comparison. It is hard to put code in for moral choices that aren't easily abused, etc.
I love this idea, You have inspired me good sir, I shall accept your challenge, following the path of Ranger to track down the wicked and rain justice upon them.Very well put and an astute observation on why people do what they do (high reward for little risk/repercussion).
At the risk of showing my age I will say that the game I thought that best handled making choices matter and holding people accountable for their actions was Ultima Online (specifically pre-Trammel UO).
You could run around killing people all day long if that's what you wanted to do. You could steal from them. You could corpse camp them. You could say whatever string of nasty things you wanted to say as you were looting their hard earned ore/mob loot/money--whatever they had. You could offer them a resurrection and then, when the poor sap took it, you could kill them AGAIN. Nothing was forbidden and there were no mods/admins to cater to whiny "carebears" when you killed them.
However....
You kill someone (other than in a faction or guild war declaration setting) and they could report you for murder. After so many murder reports the name above your avatar turned red and you entered murderer status. You became a dreaded "red" and the community labeled you a PKer (Player Killer)--the dirtiest of early MMO terms!
What did it mean to be a PKer in early UO? For starters, you couldn't visit any of the established towns (save the one "evil" town) without getting insta-whacked by NPC guards. Your banking and NPC merchant choices were therefore VERY limited. On top of that, people could kill you without any repercussions (you couldn't report someone as a murder for killing you if you were a red). Perhaps the worst part about being a red (or the best, depending on who you asked) was the notoriety your red name brought you. People saw a red name out in the wilderness and the calls went out across multiple channels as to your location. Groups of anti-PK players would scramble to find you. It was a badge of honor, so to speak, among these "white knight" guilds to see who could kill the PKer first. And heaven forbid someone stumbled upon your house (in UO you could plant a house just about anywhere--much like in Minecraft). You'd literally have to move your home and all your stuff at like, 3am or some crazy time to avoid the anti-PK campers who were just waiting for you to show up. You couldn't do much PVE either. There were only so many dungeons to go to for good PVE and anytime a PKer was spotted in those dungeons they'd be hounded relentlessly by the anti-PKers. In later years UO implemented a much more brutal punishment for PKers--Stat Loss. You get killed while your name is red and you LOST stats (like Str, Wis, Dex, etc)--you had to work at gaining stats so losing stat points was a tough hit to take. So yeah, you could be a murderer in UO if you wanted but you were in for a tough life.
In the end, this system worked for everyone (mostly, anyway). PKers had the thrill of killing the "carebears" and enjoyed the spoils of all that dropped inventory loot. Anti-PKers had the fun of hunting down the PKers. Non-PVPers (Miners, PVEers and everyone else) would die to the PKers from time to time, but at least they knew they had some form of justice they could seek via murder reporting and the ability to inform the anti-PKers about the location of the "red" who just murdered them.
Some of the things UO did to counter senseless player killing were mechanic based but much of what kept player actions in check was community driven. I don't see that here, sadly. For example, when some poor sap gets senselessly murdered while cutting down trees in the wilderness and says something like "hey, why did you kill me?" in O chat--where is the anti-PK reaction? Where is the /msg from a "white knight" group asking the guy for the coords he was killed at and which direction did the killer travel? Do such groups even exist here? Did they on any of the previous maps? It'd be so easy to do since kill spam is advertised globally and you can look up each player (the killer and the killed) to see if it was a town war kill or an "innocent" getting murdered in the woods.
Like Kainzo said--murdering anyone and everyone you see is currently almost pure positive with zero negative results. You get his stuff, you get exp, and you get the fun of killing him. Kill enough people and you get an awesome title to show what a bad@## you are (don't even get me started on how bad the title system is and how it encourages the worst type of player behavior). And the answer given to anyone who even remotely voices any sort of complaint (however slight) about rampant, unchecked PKing in Herocraft is "It's a hardcore server!!! Don't like--leave!" While that's true (and I agree with much of the sentiment) I welcome any attempts by the dev team to make mindlessly killing people have some sort of consequence.
And you know what I'll say to the first PKer who whines about any such implemented consequences....."Hardcore works both ways. Don't like it.....leave."
And that's my old geezer gamer story/rant for the day, boys and girls.
TLR
Old man gamer tells a tale about how games and game communities used to handle PKers "back in the day". You young whippersnappers wouldn't understand and most of you who think yourselves "hardcore" by today's standards wouldn't be able to hack it "back in my day".
Basically, we want the karma system from Ultima Online - I played with it, its a good system that had a lot of internal checks and balances. There were still assholes out there - but the majority of players were trusted to most extents.Very well put and an astute observation on why people do what they do (high reward for little risk/repercussion).
At the risk of showing my age I will say that the game I thought that best handled making choices matter and holding people accountable for their actions was Ultima Online (specifically pre-Trammel UO).
You could run around killing people all day long if that's what you wanted to do. You could steal from them. You could corpse camp them. You could say whatever string of nasty things you wanted to say as you were looting their hard earned ore/mob loot/money--whatever they had. You could offer them a resurrection and then, when the poor sap took it, you could kill them AGAIN. Nothing was forbidden and there were no mods/admins to cater to whiny "carebears" when you killed them.
However....
You kill someone (other than in a faction or guild war declaration setting) and they could report you for murder. After so many murder reports the name above your avatar turned red and you entered murderer status. You became a dreaded "red" and the community labeled you a PKer (Player Killer)--the dirtiest of early MMO terms!
What did it mean to be a PKer in early UO? For starters, you couldn't visit any of the established towns (save the one "evil" town) without getting insta-whacked by NPC guards. Your banking and NPC merchant choices were therefore VERY limited. On top of that, people could kill you without any repercussions (you couldn't report someone as a murder for killing you if you were a red). Perhaps the worst part about being a red (or the best, depending on who you asked) was the notoriety your red name brought you. People saw a red name out in the wilderness and the calls went out across multiple channels as to your location. Groups of anti-PK players would scramble to find you. It was a badge of honor, so to speak, among these "white knight" guilds to see who could kill the PKer first. And heaven forbid someone stumbled upon your house (in UO you could plant a house just about anywhere--much like in Minecraft). You'd literally have to move your home and all your stuff at like, 3am or some crazy time to avoid the anti-PK campers who were just waiting for you to show up. You couldn't do much PVE either. There were only so many dungeons to go to for good PVE and anytime a PKer was spotted in those dungeons they'd be hounded relentlessly by the anti-PKers. In later years UO implemented a much more brutal punishment for PKers--Stat Loss. You get killed while your name is red and you LOST stats (like Str, Wis, Dex, etc)--you had to work at gaining stats so losing stat points was a tough hit to take. So yeah, you could be a murderer in UO if you wanted but you were in for a tough life.
In the end, this system worked for everyone (mostly, anyway). PKers had the thrill of killing the "carebears" and enjoyed the spoils of all that dropped inventory loot. Anti-PKers had the fun of hunting down the PKers. Non-PVPers (Miners, PVEers and everyone else) would die to the PKers from time to time, but at least they knew they had some form of justice they could seek via murder reporting and the ability to inform the anti-PKers about the location of the "red" who just murdered them.
Some of the things UO did to counter senseless player killing were mechanic based but much of what kept player actions in check was community driven. I don't see that here, sadly. For example, when some poor sap gets senselessly murdered while cutting down trees in the wilderness and says something like "hey, why did you kill me?" in O chat--where is the anti-PK reaction? Where is the /msg from a "white knight" group asking the guy for the coords he was killed at and which direction did the killer travel? Do such groups even exist here? Did they on any of the previous maps? It'd be so easy to do since kill spam is advertised globally and you can look up each player (the killer and the killed) to see if it was a town war kill or an "innocent" getting murdered in the woods.
Like Kainzo said--murdering anyone and everyone you see is currently almost pure positive with zero negative results. You get his stuff, you get exp, and you get the fun of killing him. Kill enough people and you get an awesome title to show what a bad@## you are (don't even get me started on how bad the title system is and how it encourages the worst type of player behavior). And the answer given to anyone who even remotely voices any sort of complaint (however slight) about rampant, unchecked PKing in Herocraft is "It's a hardcore server!!! Don't like--leave!" While that's true (and I agree with much of the sentiment) I welcome any attempts by the dev team to make mindlessly killing people have some sort of consequence.
And you know what I'll say to the first PKer who whines about any such implemented consequences....."Hardcore works both ways. Don't like it.....leave."
And that's my old geezer gamer story/rant for the day, boys and girls.
TLR
Old man gamer tells a tale about how games and game communities used to handle PKers "back in the day". You young whippersnappers wouldn't understand and most of you who think yourselves "hardcore" by today's standards wouldn't be able to hack it "back in my day".
Basically, we want the karma system from Ultima Online - I played with it, its a good system that had a lot of internal checks and balances. There were still assholes out there - but the majority of players were trusted to most extents.
Question: Why does this link me to the town thread for Jericho, from October of last year?
Herocraft is a cesspool of indecency and unethical practices, and I know I'm not the only victim. I took all the advice people offered when I made the mistake last time of going to Warsaw and I suffered the exact same fate. Does anyone know what ethics are anymore? Certainly not Herocraft's community.
I feel like this is a hard core server. Clearly you know nothing of ethics, or maybe you're using a more modern version of it. Minecraft, and herocraft especially, is more of an early life sand box pvp game. It's based around basic human survival; medieval times. I'm fairly certain you didn't live back then, nor have your studied it apparently, therefore, you really have no basis to describe and define ethics.
I'm not about to give a history lesson, but the world was a much weirder place back then. Many powerful historical figures rose to power through ambition, savagery and their will to dominate and kill to get what they want. Herocraft is no different; it's a game that allows those of us who're a little more "beta" feel and act like we're "alphas". We can dominate like back in the good old days, where if someone brought up a rant like this, they'd be executed and fucked in public.
The point of my reply was to tell you you have a bad understanding of human ethics. It's a god damned video game, of course we won't go around killing people with iron swords in real life if they step near a house. We're not retarded, we're just bored gamers looking for a challenge. Fight back next time, or run away and learn to fight back another day.