Ninjas need love, and other thoughts.

[kriskills]

Ninjas have been overtaken by the new HP update. They used to be OP when surprising someone could decide a battle, and diamond swords were 3 hit kills. Now the large gap between Armor and HP that warriors get has made them underpowered. Sure we get good attack, but we die too quick even with our poor leather armor on. Smoke is good for casters, but each caster spec has a way to get away from our melee (root, web, and piggify). Caster specs are now better than us because they can get away, even if we surprise them with smoke. Then their mana outlasts our HP and can kill us before they run out since we have nothing for long range. Smoke is pretty much the only Pvp skill ninjas get. (Assassins blade is a rogue skill)

Here is how ninjas are now

Sneak - 20Mp - Run in sneak state
- Good skill, easier to run around in, and not have to worry about being seen as much. Useless if no cover around.

Assassins blade - 25Mp - Adds 8 poison damage to your attack
- Only combat skill, comes from rogue class.

Blackjack - 45Mp - 5%chance to stun an opponent for 1-3 seconds
- Okay, useless skill. 5%?! chance to stun an opponent for maybe 1-3 seconds, and take 45% of your MP. This is a stupid skill as it is. Change the % of stun to 30-40% for 3 seconds, then we have a skill that can be useful to stop runners.

Safefall - 35Mp I think - Can fall from any height and land unscathed.
- It is quite a fun skill to have, but does do a lot in terms of fighting. Unless you are lucky enough to be fighting on something high and want to escape.

Smoke - 100MP - Dissappear for 10 seconds (breaks on attack, or if you are hit)
- First problem, people can see that you used smoke if you are decently close, and then spam things like harmtouch, or smite which wont go unless it sees you. So they spam it in circles until it hits you and brings you out of smoke. Besides this, it is a great skill to get the first surprise hit or two in.

Warriors have many skills that are combat related, while rogues have virtually none. I think rogues should have more skills than warriors, because warriors are supposed to have very few skills, and rely on their attack, hp, and armor to get by. But in this, Warriors have better armor, better hp, and better skills.

Casters are good because they are supposed to have many skills in order to make up for their low HP.

This is how Ninjas skills should be

Sneak - 10Mp - 10 mins duration

Assassins Blade - 25Mp - 10 poison dmg overtime

Jump (Ninja Leap) - 30Mp - Same as Dragoon (Ninjas are known for leaping from building to building)
- This allows ninjas to have an exit strategy, and a way to get to casters.

Blackjack - 45MP - 30-40% chance to stun an opponent for 3 seconds.

Safefall - 35%MP - Fall from any height and take no damage.

Poison Dart - 10MP 5s CD - Shoots 1 poison arrow (If weilding a bow) Like Poison arrow, but can only shoot 1 per 5 seconds, and you cant shoot arrows.

Assassinate - 25MP 3 minute CD - Deals 10 Extra damage if you hit someone from behind. Longer CD.

What do you think?

Also: Samurais need to lose some Dmg. They have higher HP, better armor, bladegrasp, and 10 dmg. They need to be around the same as the other warriors, so I would say 7-8 dmg to make them low/med dmg which they are supposed to be.

EDIT: New Skill Ideas

Parry - Passive - 10% chance to parry a melee attack

Ninja Trap - 10MP 5s CD - Turns ground to soulsand around target/slows them

Duel Swords - Passive - Allows ninjas to equip 2 swords, enhancing physical attack

Kusarigama - 40MP 30s CD - Lasts 10 seconds, all enemies in a 10 block radies get 5 damage a second

Black Egg - 20MP 10s CD - Temporarily blinds target for 5s

Run system - A system where different paths lose food at different rates, or some run faster than others? I dont know whats possible.

Will add more later. Just getting a long list, so hopefully we can get something.

 

[Papabear20xd6]

I completely agree. Testing blackjack was ridiculous. It didn't proc once and I had to be full healed serveral times before we gave up. 5% isn't worth having a skill for. Unless it was passive or something. I suggested something like the jump ur talking about, saying it doesn't have to be as big as dragoon jump but something that would allow you to jump farther or something like that but I totally agree.

Poison dart could work if ur holding a stick or something. As if u hallowed it out as a blow dart.

Samurais are incredibly powerful. High Hp and could use real good armor, I agree that something needs to be lowreed

Pretty good list ! +1

 

[JZillifro]

I like the poison arrow, the assassination, and the jump ideas. they'd go very well with ninjas

 

[jmoney222]

I most definitely like the Jump ability.

 

[kriskills]

I like papabears idea of holding a stick for Poison dart. Would make sense to use.

 

[Dazureus]

As for "Warriors shouldn't have many skills", Paladin and Dreadknights are at least part magic. Dragoons are acrobatic and Samurai... Samurai should have skills with a bent toward quickly dealing with one enemy, and one or two for variety. Very one-track-mind. Rogues and Ninja in particular are often concerned with their surroundings, so those mobility skills you got going on make sense.

I would remove SafeFall in exchange for Jump. It can be used to absorb fall damage. Here's my theory- You can only execute the Jump when you're on the ground. The temp SafeFall starts the moment the server detects that you've initiated the skill. So if you use it as you fall they de-sync, and with a little timing you can have fallen off a skyscraper and end up just fine. Which is actually an incredibly appropriate side-effect. Ninja and Dragoons are good at landing on their feet, but if you just fling yourself off the edge of a building, you're going to hurt yourself. You have to think quickly and do it right. Accidental(?) win.

I like the idea of Poison Dart, but I sort of think it needs a longer cooldown, maybe 30 seconds (They shouldn't need ranged attacks in general, and 12 projectiles a minute sounds like a bit much). The bow? Ehhh, maybe not. It is a dart, not technically an arrow, and actually shooting the dart doesn't take much setup (preparing it would take longer). It could just consume an arrow and fire an arrow projectile as though it were launched from a bow. This wouldn't bring up the issue of "why can't I shoot arrows normally?" I don't know if Ninja should have ranged attacks at all, but if they got one this would be just fine.

Blackjack needs to be fixed, straight up. Assassinate or a similar skill sounds good.

 

[kriskills]

You forget how inaccurate arrows are in times of lag (usually battles with a few people) 2 a minute is a bad chance. Most fighting times arent that long, and I think the stick is a good thing instead of bow. Maybe like a 10 second CD would be better. I was just into suggesting.

Warriors should have some magic yes, but as HP and Armor whores they shouldnt have as many as other classes. They can hold their own without having to use skills as well. DK and Dragoons have some long range attacks (Samurai have the star, but we all know how crappy that is with eggs) - Actually idk if they have it anymore, but yeah. Ninjas should have something that puts an edge over the warriors a little.

And yes, I know most rogues need more skills, I only know ninjas though.

 

[Dazureus]

Dragoons are strictly melee for now, they just have Jump. 30 seconds cooldown is a bit much I guess, but no fewer than 10 seconds. And if by "Some long-range attacks" you mean Harmtouch, well.

Armor whoring is only so practical. I tend to give up on bringing my diamond slacks to the party after losing two or three pairs. Just because a class can be boring and do alright, it doesn't mean they should remain boring.

 

[kriskills]

They can give them some non combat skills for fun. I got safefall, which isnt really a combat skill, but is really fun

 

[Dazureus]

:|

They are PvP classes, sir. Bar Dragoon, not very nimble either. Nor do I see one skill on your list that is unsuitable for fighting with. Jump and SafeFall are useful beyond combat, but have their place while fighting as well.

 

[kriskills]

Safefall is used prob one out of 20 - 30 battles. Not a real pvp skill. Yes, casters should have most skills, then healers, then rogues, then warriors. Something needs to be given up for the extra HP and armor you have over everyone.

But anyway, we will let kainzo and the others decide what to do and add. Back to whether or not these skills fit ninja and would suit them well.

 

[Dazureus]

I don't think so, Tim. The number of skills means nothing versus what you can do with them. And keep in mind, "Warriors have better armor" isn't a given, it's a possibility. They CAN have better armor. You aren't looking for a skillset that would wreck a fully armored paladin, or be a specific counter to long-ranged classes for that matter.

I need numbers on exactly how much difference armor makes, as well. That's one bit of information I can't find anywhere.

Anyways, I've left my opinion on how well your skills fit Ninja already. So here we stop.

 

[kriskills]

Bump, anyone else have any ideas or criticism?

 

[Demonxman]

yea.... why the FUCK do people have to compare different specs to each other? this is a suggestion about the ninja not any caster spec. so, yea. I would love to have some of these skills. ATM I'm at lvl 19 on ninja and I see the next skill is at lvl 30 and I'm thinking to myself why I have to go 30 lvls just to get a new skill and it's safefall to boot, a worthless skill when you're fighting underground lols....

 

[Papabear20xd6]

Obviously classes/specs need to be compared to each other. In a perfect world you would make a suggestion everyone would love it and implementing it would have no imbalanced reproductions.

HOWEVER, seeing as how, I still don't have a good enough job, my cars a piece of shit and bloodmage isn't revamped, this is not a perfect world.

So yea, when making suggestions about a class, other classes and specs can be talked about. They need to be talked about. I am a geomancer. I love these abilities, I am more on the side of well casters have skills warriors have health crafters have crafting and rogues have sword. But I think Thief's and Ninjas should recieve more skills in general. These would be wonderful additions to ninjas. Both of them sorta implies that there is a lot of technical aspects to there spec and you can only do so much swining a sword at someone.

 

[Demonxman]

say that, because the caster specs should have more skills than any other specs that this spec SHOULD NOT get any more skills than them is complete bullshit. nuff said

 

[kriskills]

Idk if that was towards papabear, but he was agreeing that we should have more abilities, that skills from most to least is Casters > Healers > Rogues > Warriors And I have no idea about crafters haha. So yes, Rogues should get more skills than Warriors, while casters should have more skills than us.

I think this is a good list. Hope to get at least a few implemented soon

 

[Papabear20xd6]

Thanks kris lol, yea Demon idk who the hell your talking to but get the sand out of your vagina, i was agreeing with you

 

[Dazureus]

Demon's disgruntletude aside, I just don't understand what lead up to Kris' hierarchy of who should have how many skills. In my mind, all classes should get skills that work well in their context, regardless of what kind of class they are. You could have melee classes with a large variety of simple direct-damage skills, or a ranged class that only has three or four spells with powerful effects. What's the problem with that?

 

[kriskills]

Its all about balance. Casters are all about skills. while warriors are tanks that are supposed to take damage. You are telling me that you think a warrior With 85+hp and as much damage as a caster or more, should have as many skills as a caster with 50-60 hp? The way to bridge this gap, is through skills. No there is no set hierarchy, I just proposed it in this thread