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Ninja stuff

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
But the other suggestion with ninjas being able to attack and maintain smoke is just OP
If rogues are supposed to take on casters and casters have pulse and icy aura then it would make sense to make smoke not break on damage. Other wise if they take one hit they take damage and lose one of the most important skills. Plus the long 5 minute cool down time for smoke makes it un-able to be used for 1v1 battles more than one time.
 

GreekCrackShot

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Location
New York
Lol a ninja can't kill me in "less than 3 hits". It's not NEARLY that easy to kill a Dreadknight. ESPECIALLY one that can PvP
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Okay, first of all who is talking about a ninja taking down a warrior especially dread knights? They're not supposed to because that's the PvP triangle. Second the biggest add on to the server that makes it so amazing and different is the heroes plugin. Which means that is still a big part of the server, but doesn't mean its the entire thing. Third why are you talking about healers in a ninja thread, because it has nothing to do with ninjas.
I'm talking about it. Maybe because that is what this is going to lead to. I understand that this is their best plugin I ALSO understand that this is all people ever post, the admins and founders are doing a great job of keeping this plugin adverse and fun and maintaining it, the community however isn't. Lastly, if I didn't refer to the second weakest class than I wouldn't have an example, honestly I wasn't planning on anyone commenting on that.
 

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
I try to comment on everything :D and I agree the admins are doing a great job, but people have to post things like this to help them fix the things that need it. And if your referring to healer then its not supposed to be strong and take other classes out in the normal manner. They are a support class and should do that exactly.
 

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Like we said before a PvP triangle is a hugely flawed playstyle especially when it is absolute.
For what reasons?

I agree with you, when I say triangle I mean that each class has a specific role. One class should be slightly better than another. But right now, as you said there are a lot more Wizards/Geomancers other rogues and warrior specs. It should be unbalanced for each class slightly, but barely noticeable, more like a 45/55.

Decreasing the damage done by ninjas isn't the way to go. Right now that, kick, and blackjack are about their only good attributes. If you take down their damage your taking away a big part of ninja. They don't have any defense which is why they have such a high damage output. I just think the skills need to be fixed/buffed or replace some with skills that work/better suit them. You don't need to nerf every class, just buff the ones that need it a little (And i'm not saying buff them up so people complain they're OP, just enough to stand a better chance).

That doesn't make any sense for lowering the ninja's damage. If they only did 5 damage till 55 then they'd be worthless. They would be doing less damage than a paladin (i believe correct me if i'm wrong). The only thing needed changed about ninjas are their current skills. They just need a slight buff, other wise there isn't much point in spec-ing it. And how would lowering their damage make up for their lack of armor!?!

I'm not yelling at you or anything, i just don't see how that is away to make them better. I'm a ninja, and from multiple people I've understood that they are one of the worst specs to go (mostly because of their skills not working or just not good enough).

I just tested escape artist and its been brought to my attention that it does not work on web. This needs to be fixed because that is the entire point of the skill.

Also I just fought a level 28 wizard and he killed me when i had full armor on in a few fireballs. In my opinion that shouldn't happen. I even had a speed potion (with lag i hit him 4 times with my diamond sword and it didn't do anything, like it didn't show he took damage.). Another fight just now with a necromancer and the same thing almost happened had I not jumped into water.
 

Diffuse

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Pvp triangles never work in games like this for a few reasons really. For one thing the logic that something should always beat another really ruins the idea of skill being a factor and helps kill the fun and competitive spirit of a lot of people. Another issue is that it gets annoying and frustrating when you are say a warrior, and you have to run every single time you see a caster because you just have no chance.

The real problem I have is that the triangle is never done completely right because there will always be some sort of imbalance in a game like this. When people begin to notice that something is imbalanced they seem to quickly switch over to that side causing the ratios of specs to be pushed toward one side or another. This ends up leaving people who don't want to switch or don't have the time to grind out a new spec in the dust, getting raped by everyone who did switch. Then something gets nerfed and it repeats itself. This is really what has been happening with casters from what I've seen. Near the start of the map they went somewhat unnoticed and once they got noticed tons of player shifted to that side of the triangle leaving the rest to just get shit on. When I go raiding it seems that every other player is either a geo or a wizard.

Everything should have a chance against everyone. The chance doesn't have to be equal, but it should at least be 35/65 rather than the stupid 10/90 that we are dealing with right now.
 

arcanegrove

Obsidian
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Instead of buffing other classes, why not nerf other classes? Because of the low health factor, Dmg should also be slightly lower. I believe that's the issue, although I do think that ninjas are slightly underpowered, no caster should be able to take out any thing so quickly. But back to talking about ninja, I think that they're accatectualy fairly balcenced. BUT, because of low HP and armor, they die quickly. Smoke shouldn't be a defensive skill, it should be slightly offencive. Infact, when they get it, I feel that it should replace sneak.

So, if smoke did replace smoke, what would happen? Ninjas would be insanly OP. This is how i think it could balence the effect if ninjas used smoke instead of sneak, reduce the Dmg they do drastically, but give them a "can only use while smoked" stun and increase % of blackjack so that they could kill people fast with out the enemy doin much Dmg to them. This way, they could be what they do best, kill fast then stealth back. But if there are more then 1 fighter, they'll have an insanely hard time. So, how do you counter a class that can kill super fast with out taking Dmg. But if you think about it, you can see that the PvP triangle works if balcenced correctly. Pure Dmg classes kill fast and deal the most Dmg, those are casters and rogues, while hybrid classes, pallys, bloodmages and disciple, have more survivability with less Dmg, they also have healing skills, making them supposably hard to kill. Only problem is that it takes time to correctly balence every class. I feel that pvp isn't really about 1v1, it's 2v2 3v3 4v4 and larger. Because the PvP triangle isn't about what classes kill other classes, thats the rock paper sizzors system. The triangle system is is about what classes get certain roles. Healers aren't supposed to be able to kill a rogue or caster , they will give trouble because they counter the rogues Dmg with healing but killing them would be difficult, they make sure that others don't get killed by them. That's the role of a healer. Let me give an example, when I played WoW, I was a big pvper, so I wanted to have insane survivability. After much studying, I realized that the best lvl 70 pvp class was a holy pally. I could duel with a fully decked out Dmg Druid for 20 minutes. I finally lost, but because I ran out of mana but it was amazing how long I survived. Warrior, give rogues trouble because they counter the high Dmg with great survivability, they protect their friends bye killing the enemy, but casters take down warriors because magic goes through armor and does high dmg. So, with a little balence, any group of people would be able to beat any group of people.

Then how about this, you give ninjas 5 Dmg with swords but at lvl 55, give them duel wielding, doubling Dmg they deal. I feel that ninjas should another stun, solely because blackjack isn't to reliable. A instant stun out of smoke would be perfect. Also, I'm just saying that because the low health, Mabby less Dmg would be the best thing you could do to even every thing out

Ok.

I understand your not yelling at me, I just want to make them better also :) and Im a wow player 5 yrs running now, I'm just comparing the 2 trying to make it similar. Wow has a very large skill requirement to play rogues, but if played right, they destroy any class, at the same, very squishy. Rogues in wow wield low Dmg daggers, but they duel wield them, at the same time they got skils like back stab and cheap shot. Both skills require stealth and behind the target. That's why I feel they need low wepon Dmg, to have high Dmg skills.
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
Instead of buffing other classes, why not nerf other classes?
I really don't like this mentality. I would prefer that everyone was slightly over-the-top than slightly underwhelming.

Let it be known, I'm not putting you down for your input. It's just my mind taking cues from yours.
 

_Maxo

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
I totally understand now that smoke is a Defensive skill... Knowing this I think smoke should last like 45 seconds rather than 10 seconds. I also think cool down should be more like 2 mins rather than 5.

Love all the other skills... but I personally think Garrote should just be replaced with silence - lasts 6 seconds.

One - pretty fucking awesome, I just would like to see less cool down, WICKED fast speed buff, and possibly jumping buff? <3 Ninja <3
 
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