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EXP Sheet (WIP)
- Thread starter Kainzo
- Start date
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
You can't place it, but it may be added as a placeable block in the future so why not give XP to the people who utilize the crafting of it now.
@Kainzo I would like to note that I am getting 0 XP for stone, 2 for iron, 4 for redstone from what I have noticed so far, so I think there may be something wrong with the rates you posted ._.
Edit: Obsidian gives 19, so for some reason it looks like all XP values have been reduced by one thus making any 1xp block not give xp and nerfing all xp by one.
@Kainzo I would like to note that I am getting 0 XP for stone, 2 for iron, 4 for redstone from what I have noticed so far, so I think there may be something wrong with the rates you posted ._.
Edit: Obsidian gives 19, so for some reason it looks like all XP values have been reduced by one thus making any 1xp block not give xp and nerfing all xp by one.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
If you're a specialized crafter - EXP was changed by 1% (to 0.99)
eisbaerBorealis
Portal
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
- Location
- Utah
And therefore rounded down? Once specialized, not only can you not receive exp for dirt/stone/sand/etc., but [for the time being] you don't get exp for crafting either. Ouch.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
Absolutely! To effectively become master in crafting you will need to mine as well as craft items.
I have no plans to change this.
SM4SHBOX
Legacy Supporter 6
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
Read the patch notes - specializations wont get 1 xp hits anymore, in favor of the more advanced Crafting EXP.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
Other exp sources were untouched
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
Updated
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
Is the XP from crafting supposed to be affected by the 1% nerf to xp, thus not allowing the crafting of certain things like chests, furnaces, noteblocks, and rails to give xp? Also, is there any possibility that the other sources of xp [Iron, obsidian, coal,logs etc.] be buffed up by 1 to allow them to give the xp values that are stated on the main page?
eisbaerBorealis
Portal
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
- Location
- Utah
But... I got 30 exp for my obsidian. And 7 for my coal and redstone. And you said you updated the list?
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
If you have yet to spec you get a 50% boost in XP. These numbers are the base numbers that he inputs into the form which can then be modified by multipliers and what not.
eisbaerBorealis
Portal
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
- Location
- Utah
Okay, so non-specialized gets +50%, not specialized gets -x%
That makes sense, thank you.
That makes sense, thank you.
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
[Note, I took the current values in-game of all the items, which includes the 1% reduction on everything, effectively resulting in -1 xp.]
Iron boots [Crafters should make armor and sell it]
Iron Ore Mining XP + Boots[Per Made]/Number of Ingots Required = Total XP
2X+(7(x)/4)= 100,000
4x = 100,000
26,667 Iron Ingots + 3,334 Coal [To Make Ingots]
2,963 iron blocks
46.3 Stacks of Iron Blocks to get from level 1-50 using the current system.
That also assumes that you would be fine by being stuck with 6,667 Iron boots which would occupy over 123 chests.
Is it just me or does this seem a bit excessive? I'd like to note I took one of the best iron/xp ratio item I could find. [Equal to Iron Hoe, but it does not require wood, and slightly behind the iron sword which gives 2Xp/Ingot instead of 1.75, and a good bit behind the iron spade at 3xp/ingot]
Calcuations for the iron spade:
2x + 3X = 100,000
5x = 100,000
20,000 Ingots
Only 2,222 Blocks of Iron, but also costs 78 stacks of Logs to make the required sticks. [Yes, I know you would get 10k of XP from these logs, so it would be a bit less, you'd end up only make about 18,000 shovels.
If you allow 30 towns on the server, that is more iron blocks than all those towns would use to become towns would need.
Let's say we used Gold Swords as another example, [Includes sticks]
[Total Gold Ore Harvest XP] + [Log Harvest XP] + [Sword Craft Xp] = Total XP
4X + [1/8]X +20x= 100,000
24.125X = 100,000
That's 4,146 Gold Swords
8292 Gold Ore, and 8 Stacks of Logs
That's 82,920C of Gold Ore being used to get one specialized crafter from level 1-50.
It costs 4,608 Gold Ingots to make 64 Golden apples, and that would still leave 36, 840C left over, almost enough to upgrade to kingdom AND get the golden apples for Empire.
I think this shows that the crafter XP nerfs are far too harash, and while I do enjoy the addition of crafting XP; the current XP levels make it completely not viable for one person without the help of many others or without a year's time on their hands to get to lvl 50. The economic strain this causes because of the overlying factors of less demand for many of these items accompanied with the increased supply could easily wreck the server economy and dishearten crafters from being able to do what they do best, craft. It just does not make sense to make the XP so low. When I mined from level 1-50 to get lvl 50 Mason, I had mined around 25,000 cobble during both my crafter and mason times. That means that 12.5% of my XP had come from cobble. Most of it had come from coal and other minerals which now give next to nothing in the larger scale of XP. It just doesn't make sense to me to even attempt to level a crafter when this is what you except us to do to get to lvl 50. Also, I understand that you don't expect us to grind out 4,146 gold swords or 6,667 iron boots, but those are the numbers that exemplify the most efficient ways of doing it, just think if someone decided to make iron armor sets and made iron chest plates for 1.3Xp per ingot. The numbers would show an abomination.
-Alex
Iron boots [Crafters should make armor and sell it]
Iron Ore Mining XP + Boots[Per Made]/Number of Ingots Required = Total XP
2X+(7(x)/4)= 100,000
4x = 100,000
26,667 Iron Ingots + 3,334 Coal [To Make Ingots]
2,963 iron blocks
46.3 Stacks of Iron Blocks to get from level 1-50 using the current system.
That also assumes that you would be fine by being stuck with 6,667 Iron boots which would occupy over 123 chests.
Is it just me or does this seem a bit excessive? I'd like to note I took one of the best iron/xp ratio item I could find. [Equal to Iron Hoe, but it does not require wood, and slightly behind the iron sword which gives 2Xp/Ingot instead of 1.75, and a good bit behind the iron spade at 3xp/ingot]
Calcuations for the iron spade:
2x + 3X = 100,000
5x = 100,000
20,000 Ingots
Only 2,222 Blocks of Iron, but also costs 78 stacks of Logs to make the required sticks. [Yes, I know you would get 10k of XP from these logs, so it would be a bit less, you'd end up only make about 18,000 shovels.
If you allow 30 towns on the server, that is more iron blocks than all those towns would use to become towns would need.
Let's say we used Gold Swords as another example, [Includes sticks]
[Total Gold Ore Harvest XP] + [Log Harvest XP] + [Sword Craft Xp] = Total XP
4X + [1/8]X +20x= 100,000
24.125X = 100,000
That's 4,146 Gold Swords
8292 Gold Ore, and 8 Stacks of Logs
That's 82,920C of Gold Ore being used to get one specialized crafter from level 1-50.
It costs 4,608 Gold Ingots to make 64 Golden apples, and that would still leave 36, 840C left over, almost enough to upgrade to kingdom AND get the golden apples for Empire.
I think this shows that the crafter XP nerfs are far too harash, and while I do enjoy the addition of crafting XP; the current XP levels make it completely not viable for one person without the help of many others or without a year's time on their hands to get to lvl 50. The economic strain this causes because of the overlying factors of less demand for many of these items accompanied with the increased supply could easily wreck the server economy and dishearten crafters from being able to do what they do best, craft. It just does not make sense to make the XP so low. When I mined from level 1-50 to get lvl 50 Mason, I had mined around 25,000 cobble during both my crafter and mason times. That means that 12.5% of my XP had come from cobble. Most of it had come from coal and other minerals which now give next to nothing in the larger scale of XP. It just doesn't make sense to me to even attempt to level a crafter when this is what you except us to do to get to lvl 50. Also, I understand that you don't expect us to grind out 4,146 gold swords or 6,667 iron boots, but those are the numbers that exemplify the most efficient ways of doing it, just think if someone decided to make iron armor sets and made iron chest plates for 1.3Xp per ingot. The numbers would show an abomination.
-Alex
R3xz
Glowstone
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2011
@ Alex's post
TL;DR
What he's saying is that the XP boost get from crafting isn't enough to compensate for the mining nerf. We either need to boost up crafting XP or increase mining XP, right now it's a total nerf for XP gain globally by anyone who isn't killing mobs for experience point.
TL;DR
What he's saying is that the XP boost get from crafting isn't enough to compensate for the mining nerf. We either need to boost up crafting XP or increase mining XP, right now it's a total nerf for XP gain globally by anyone who isn't killing mobs for experience point.
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
Yeh, that about summarizes it. I believe the math behind it shows a much more compelling problem that really shows the amount of time that someone would need to take out of their lives to master crafter, as well as show that that amount of resources allocated towards a crafter's leveling would be detrimental to the server economy as thousands of resources go towards leveling.
eisbaerBorealis
Portal
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
- Location
- Utah
Very well researched. However, it's also been mentioned that this isn't supposed to be easy. The more difficult it is, the more impressive the trophy. If you want to convince me, why don't you do the math for the combat-classes? Compare. Were I admin, I would be more likely to listen to "we level up so much slower than combat-classes" (with substantial evidence) vs "It takes us a really long time."
In short, while I find the nerfs annoying, I don't see a valid argument in bringing them back up.
In short, while I find the nerfs annoying, I don't see a valid argument in bringing them back up.
AlexDaParrot
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
Ok, I still don't see why people are trying to balance combat-classes versus non-combat as they bring two different skill sets and also need to be leveled in two completely different ways. Combat classes can be leveled in an engaging way, whereas non-combat classes are leveled by the grind. That is the only way to level noncombat.
But here it goes.
[Average of Zombies,Spiders, Skeletons, and Creepers]
((18+15+22+23)/4)X = 100,000
5,128 Zombie/Spiders/Skeletons. I'd like to note that instead of losing potential money at this point, you are gaining money as monsters drop coins [Usually] so if monsters drop 1 coin 30% of the time [Arguable, they I don't kill mobs for xp, so I don't really know] you have made yourself a tidy 1.538k of coins. This will easily pay for any repair that is needed to be done on any items as well as all the food to grind on these mobs.
So what have we learned so far: While noncombat classes can sacrafice tens of thousands of iron ingots or tens of thousands of coins to level-up, combat classes have all their expenditures usually paid for.
So I logged on and walked around a bit, I found 4 creepers, 1 skeleton, and 4 zombies after a short 30 second jog outside of my lighted area. That's 174 XP sitting right there. That amount is equivalent to 43.5 iron ingots
So if I spend 1 hour hunting mobs, and I spend 6 minutes [40 seconds per mob! [That's a ton]] on each mob, it would be equivilent to mining 435 iron ingots or 48 blocks of iron an hour. Not only is leveling a crafting not cost-efficient, do you see how totally unplausible it would be for a crafter to get 435 iron ingots an hour?
That's about the best I can do because I'm not a combat class and I can't get hard numbers, but I can assure you that combat classes get more than that amount of xp per hour and it does not cost them 48 iron blocks an hour to get that type of xp.
But here it goes.
[Average of Zombies,Spiders, Skeletons, and Creepers]
((18+15+22+23)/4)X = 100,000
5,128 Zombie/Spiders/Skeletons. I'd like to note that instead of losing potential money at this point, you are gaining money as monsters drop coins [Usually] so if monsters drop 1 coin 30% of the time [Arguable, they I don't kill mobs for xp, so I don't really know] you have made yourself a tidy 1.538k of coins. This will easily pay for any repair that is needed to be done on any items as well as all the food to grind on these mobs.
So what have we learned so far: While noncombat classes can sacrafice tens of thousands of iron ingots or tens of thousands of coins to level-up, combat classes have all their expenditures usually paid for.
So I logged on and walked around a bit, I found 4 creepers, 1 skeleton, and 4 zombies after a short 30 second jog outside of my lighted area. That's 174 XP sitting right there. That amount is equivalent to 43.5 iron ingots
So if I spend 1 hour hunting mobs, and I spend 6 minutes [40 seconds per mob! [That's a ton]] on each mob, it would be equivilent to mining 435 iron ingots or 48 blocks of iron an hour. Not only is leveling a crafting not cost-efficient, do you see how totally unplausible it would be for a crafter to get 435 iron ingots an hour?
That's about the best I can do because I'm not a combat class and I can't get hard numbers, but I can assure you that combat classes get more than that amount of xp per hour and it does not cost them 48 iron blocks an hour to get that type of xp.