Suggestion [Class] replace "Juggernaut" with "Berserker"

[Joka10]

This is a good idea, I think. It would make the Legendary class something unique.
Stuff about Legendaries in general that is a bit off-topic in this thread...

Spoiler

Right now, I feel like there is nothing "special" about the Legendaries (at least the ones I've really looked at (Assassin/Juggernaut). They feel like amped-up base classes. Warrior is a weakish generic tanky class. Rogue is a weakish generic sneaky stabby class. Caster is a weakish generic... caster. Healer is a weakish generic doctor type guy. Those are all really bland.

Then you've got specs. (Forgive me if I am somewhat off on these. I've only really meddled in the rogue specs.
Warrior specs:
DK- Kinda tanky highish damage class
Paladin- Really tanky lowish damage class
Samurai- Really high damage, not-so-tanky class
Dragoon- Kinda tanky really fast/agile medium damage class
Rogue specs:
Ranger- Moderately armored fairly sneaky ranged class with a lot of arrow skills
Ninja- Lightly armored fast sneaky agile class with slight/moderate melee damage
Thief- Lightly armored sneaky thieving class with moderate/heavy melee damage
Bard- AoE group buff class with moderate armor
Caster specs:
Beguiler- Tricksterish, somewhat AoE/group buff, wierd skills...
Wizard- Teleporter, somewhat heavy damage, fun/useful skills
Necromancer- Nether porter, some DoT damage, ability/movement imparing skills
Geomancer- Heavy damage, fire/ice oriented
Healer specs:
Disciple- Low healing, combat without weapons, AoE
Cleric-Powerful healing, heavy armor, not-so-combat oriented
Druid-Moderate healing, moderate combat (I think... don't know much about druid)
Bloodmage-Healer, some combat but not really, built around transferring health into power and sending health to others

So, all of those are fairly unique from one another. You get different stuff for every class you chose.

Legendaries, however, at least in their present form (as I know it), aren't really that unique. Juggernaut is a really heavily armored tanky class with fairly good damage. It's a lot like Paladin, and there's not too much unique about it. Assassin, to me, really just feels like a heavily buffed version of Rogue with a lot of Bard skills left out. While a sort of all-around class is good, I don't think it should be boring... Assassin has the basic skills from all of the rogue specs, but none of the special ones (save for poisonarrow and smoke). It doesn't seem like the mastered version of the other four rogue specs. It just feels like an advancement on rogue, and I don't really like that it is boring in that way. I don't know much about Archmage, and basically nothing about Templar. I have heard a lot of people say that Archmage is basically just Wizard with a few skills from other classes thrown in.

I feel like Legendaries should either be a new, unique class as different from the other specs that were required to gain it as those specs are from one another, or that it should be an all-around class that feels like the mastered version of all the specs it took to get it combined as opposed to just a buffed-up base class.

I know that they're REALLY in-dev right now, though, and a lot is changing. I've heard they probably won't even be out until the next map, but you hear a lot of things on the internet <.< From what I've seen so far, though, those are my opinions.

 

[Keache]

I'm just hoping this suggestion at the very least gets acknowledged. I find juggernaut to be a rediculously boring idea

 

[xXstrikerdudeXx]

Well to be fair legendary classes are called "legendary" for a reason there supposed to be better than the regular classes it would kinda be like a warrior facing a paladin.

 

[parkerjdude]

Don't forget how hard it is lvl the legendary classes. They don't level with regular mobs. They only level with pvp xp. This makes it incredibly hard to lvl up.

 

[Keache]

Don't forget how hard it is lvl the legendary classes. They don't level with regular mobs. They only level with pvp xp. This makes it incredibly hard to lvl up.

Nor should it mean that they should be able to kill everyone without trying too hard.

 

[xxMASSCHAOSx]

Here's a HUGE problem, since archmages are basicly wizard with piggify instead of root, and slightly higher mana/hp bank, than how are they supposed to defeat a juggernaut? In vanilla mc I've been struck by lightning in full Dia and only took 2 hearts of damage, which will probably be 1-3 hearts maybe with juggernauts. And if the juggernaut is about to die, they're probably gonna run away to the nearest no-pvp zone. And if an Assassin attacks, the assassin doesn't stand a chance, mainly due to the fact juggernaut has around twice as much health, and almost equal damage. I realy like the idea of high health realy low dps legendary, but this class be be much better suited for a normal spc, and not a legendary. Just my thoughts.

 

[Keache]

Here's a HUGE problem, since archmages are basicly wizard with piggify instead of root, and slightly higher mana/hp bank, than how are they supposed to defeat a juggernaut? In vanilla mc I've been struck by lightning in full Dia and only took 2 hearts of damage, which will probably be 1-3 hearts maybe with juggernauts. And if the juggernaut is about to die, they're probably gonna run away to the nearest no-pvp zone. And if an Assassin attacks, the assassin doesn't stand a chance, mainly due to the fact juggernaut has around twice as much health, and almost equal damage. I realy like the idea of high health realy low dps legendary, but this class be be much better suited for a normal spc, and not a legendary. Just my thoughts.

Wrong thread......

 

[xxMASSCHAOSx]

Wrong thread......

Kinda realized that after I posted

 

[Aetosion]

This is a positively brilliant idea, @Keache. I love the idea here, requiring Legendaries to actually be Legendary (as opposed to pressing a few buttons in the correct order). The Berserker would require actual skill to play, instead of a Juggernaut derping around a town taking some damage and having his Templar buddy heal it for a few hours (then pressing a few binds and everyone dying, like Greek's idea). Maybe hop in a lava lake or two.

I'm dreading Legendary classes, they'll just require people to master to Legendary to stand a chance at killing one. By Berserker having tremendous potential (I'd amp the armour up to chain-b, iron-l, chain-ch,chain-h) for epic, but requiring the person playing it to actually be good enough to fulfill that potential- you not only have managed to balance the class, but you've maintained it's legitimacy as a Legendary class, and ensured that people don't just go Legendary to be able to kill everyone on (as someone said) easymode.

I think the idea Keache's had is a very good one, and should definitely be looked into.

 

[Keache]

This is a positively brilliant idea, @Keache. I love the idea here, requiring Legendaries to actually be Legendary (as opposed to pressing a few buttons in the correct order). The Berserker would require actual skill to play, instead of a Juggernaut derping around a town taking some damage and having his Templar buddy heal it for a few hours (then pressing a few binds and everyone dying, like Greek's idea). Maybe hop in a lava lake or two.

I'm dreading Legendary classes, they'll just require people to master to Legendary to stand a chance at killing one. By Berserker having tremendous potential (I'd amp the armour up to chain-b, iron-l, chain-ch,chain-h) for epic, but requiring the person playing it to actually be good enough to fulfill that potential- you not only have managed to balance the class, but you've maintained it's legitimacy as a Legendary class, and ensured that people don't just go Legendary to be able to kill everyone on (as someone said) easymode.

I think the idea Keache's had is a very good one, and should definitely be looked into.

Yup. I pray that the staff/balance team greatly considerds this. Would make my day, in the very least. I'd tag them all but I'm sure they look at suggestions often.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Alright, all hate aside to my opinion.... how do you expect Legendaries to level without being somewhat overpowered? We only can level by PvP and it's impossible to find a lot of pvp unless you go to towns frequently. And going to towns mean a lot of people. If the Legend is not able to take down more than a few people then we lose a substantial amount of experience. Dying = devastating for Legends.

 

[Keache]

Alright, all hate aside to my opinion.... how do you expect Legendaries to level without being somewhat overpowered? We only can level by PvP and it's impossible to find a lot of pvp unless you go to towns frequently. And going to towns mean a lot of people. If the Legend is not able to take down more than a few people then we lose a substantial amount of experience. Dying = devastating for Legends.

Well, if you're good at the game then you won't have to worry about dying in PvP. It's going to be devestating because if you suck, you wont level. If you suck, you shouldn't be playing a Legendary.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Well, if you're good at the game then you won't have to worry about dying in PvP. It's going to be devestating because if you suck, you wont level. If you suck, you shouldn't be playing a Legendary.

I somewhat agree, there is a part of that I disagree with. "If you're good at the game you won't have to worry about dying in PvP". There is always some retarded overpowered shit with specializations that'll get you killed, even just abusable minecraft aspects, such as poison potions and geomancers. Just because you're good at the game, doesn't guarantee survival. I may win every 1v1 I fight as a "berserker", but what about those fights where I get attacked by 3+ guys? It's not really fair to the legend, who just spent days on end to master classes and make the money to pay for the class, to repeatedly lose levels because they can barely beat a level 20 geomancer.

If the Legends have to level via PvP, assuming the experience gained per kill was kept the same and the experience lost per death was increased significantly, then leveling the Legendary class as a berserker or nerfed Legend (any legend for that matter) would be an extremely painful, and tedious task, due to the fact that the only real PvP you'll find is at townships.

The way you want to change it almost makes me not want to specialize into Juggernaut, just because I know whenever I come close to leveling (Probably around level 10) I'll just get triple teamed and die, resulting in the lose of a massive amount of experience, ultimately leading to the lack of motivation for other players to waste their time mindlessly grinding in mob arenas to master classes that are only a smidgen worse than the Legend they are trying to achieve. If this is going to be put in place, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, make it so you don't lose a fuckton of experience upon death. It would be extremely frustrating to gain a decent amount of experience successfully killing people, then losing it all because an OP geomancer deepfreeze-fireball-icebolt combo'd you to death.

 

[Keache]

Play smart and you won't die. Play well and you'll get kills. OP things/classes are completely out of the question. They are not intended to be OP, therefor your argument is invalid. Anyway, if you can't handle the deaths/hard leveling, don't be a Legendary. Giving all the kills and easymode to you as a Legendary is not Hardcore. How could you suggest making Legendaries OP, all the while keeping them in line with their "hardcore" philosophy?

 

[xXstrikerdudeXx]

I agree with Greek everyone can die doesnt matter if you play "smart" you could be walking to your town and you get jumped by 2 lvl 60 Guys your most likely done for if they have poison and health pots or it's two classes with sone sort of stun effect like root/impale

 

[Keache]

I agree with Greek everyone can die doesnt matter if you play "smart" you could be walking to your town and you get jumped by 2 lvl 60 Guys your most likely done for if they have poison and health pots or it's two classes with sone sort of stun effect like root/impale

Then don't play a Legendary if you're paranoid about being jumped?

 

[Aetosion]

I do not believe exp necessary from Player Kills is counted as it is now.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I swear I will quit this server if i become a Juggernaut/Berserker and i get killed by a level 25 geo's deepfreeze + fireball + icebolt + fireball combo.

In my opinion, thinking about it now, balancing all the legends in relation to each other would be the first step. I do agree Juggernauts sound like they would rape Assassin or Archmage if played correctly. Archmage maybe not so much, but Assassin I don't think would stand a chance.

As for Legends vs Specializations, my opinion remains unchanged considering the extremely painful rate of leveling the Legends would require due to their heavy loss of experience upon death, and relatively low amount of experience gained per kill. If Legends are gonna be "a new challenge", make them possible to level. I trust the balance team and I know whatever agreement the staff and them will come to will satisfy me.

 

[Aetosion]

Greek, the first step is to balance the Legends to specs. Legends should be feared for their skill, and grasp of their own class. Their class should be a difficult one to play.

Legends should NOT be able to 1v2 2 Specs of an equal or greater skill level than the Legend. That's the most important factor.

From my understanding, the exp per kill would NOT be the same as it is for most classes. The general idea being, if you can get the 100 killstreak title with a spec, you should be able to master a Legendary.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

@Aetosion what about experience lost upon death? That's what mainly worries me. I could go on a 50 killstreak, then die and lose all of the experience i just gained, i find that a bit too hard imo