Worries for healers

[MeganPerk]

Even though my class is a healer class - it is a hybrid and not a true healer. I am speaking of true healers and class balance - not an opinion of what a class's role should be. Balance means equalibrium. Equilibrium means two forces that are equally opposite and unable to destroy one another. We do not want 2 classes to clash and sit at a battle front for all eternity and not get anything done, but guaranteeing that one of the sides will always lose against the other is not balance either. You all say that I am screaming for my monk to be beefed up to kill anything, while i'm not argueing for monk at all. Monk is a combat healer, not a healer - it is a hybrid. The one thing that is blatant however is that you all are screaming for healers to lose 100% of the time, which is almost hypocracy to saying that i should have healers beefed up to win 100% of the time. Nobody should win 100% of the time - that is what balance is. 50% - 50%. If a healer is unable to support themselves with heals, how on earth are they ever going to support another class with their heals? I am not talking about monk since monk is not a straightforward healing class, I'm talking about core classes - healer vs warrior.

 

[MeganPerk]

Healers should not be able to heal the DPS of a melee class. That is not balanced because they have the ability to heal others as well. They are there to aid in healing of party members, but not make it one sided. They are vital for keeping party members alive to fight another day, but not for making people impossible to kill. They need to have some high heals, but for a costly price. They arent supposed to be tanks that can heal the dps that a melee class is doing. This makes them have to be protected by their party, because they are a vital part. They shouldnt be able to tank damage like they do, cause this is not balanced.

Healers are vital for a small turn in the middle of a balance, but also great for after a battle. They can heal everyone to full, and not let their party members be worn down by oncoming attacks. This is the role of a healer. Not to heal as much as being taken.

That is my point kris. What i said was an example of balance. Being able to heal as much as a dps can dish out. If a healer went to heal someone else, they would never be able to make up for healing someone else. That was merely an example of balance.

 

[MeganPerk]

Well this is what I basically tried to point out but I see other people see what I tried to say. Healers are balanced already (well still I dont apporve the armor thing) but they only need a tweak in mana cost and thats all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I couldn't agree more... get rid of cleric's armor and everything should play out fine.

 

[HollowSith]

Even though my class is a healer class - it is a hybrid and not a true healer. I am speaking of true healers and class balance - not an opinion of what a class's role should be. Balance means equalibrium. Equilibrium means two forces that are equally opposite and unable to destroy one another. We do not want 2 classes to clash and sit at a battle front for all eternity and not get anything done, but guaranteeing that one of the sides will always lose against the other is not balance either. You all say that I am screaming for my monk to be beefed up to kill anything, while i'm not argueing for monk at all. Monk is a combat healer, not a healer - it is a hybrid. The one thing that is blatant however is that you all are screaming for healers to lose 100% of the time, which is almost hypocracy to saying that i should have healers beefed up to win 100% of the time. Nobody should win 100% of the time - that is what balance is. 50% - 50%. If a healer is unable to support themselves with heals, how on earth are they ever going to support another class with their heals? I am not talking about monk since monk is not a straightforward healing class, I'm talking about core classes - healer vs warrior.

Question: Who is "we", example "We do not want 2 classes to clash and sit at a battle front for all eternity and not get anything done", just curious is all.

Hmmm, maybe your idea of what the Admin's say by balancing is wrong. I believe they mean more along the lines of being fair. Your taking it too literally. Perhaps you need to think of balancing as a general term, not so exact? And yes, I believe you are correct about the "hypocracy", losing 100% of the time doesn't have a very nice ring to it, when you say it like that. It should however, be difficult; difficult for Healers to win in a 1v1. You still don't acknowledge that Healers aren't a point on that Triangle I mentioned in my previous post. Your not built for Solo PVP and with that in mind shouldn't be used as such. Your grouping your class with Warriors, which is why your having difficulty with this subject, even before the thread/ comments began. Warriors are for killing, Healers for helping others survive; or at least, that's what we've all gathered from other games like Herocraft (Yes, I'm aware HC is not it's own game, though I wish it were).

Healer vs Warrior, Warrior if he isn't a complete scrub, should win. Because like a Crafter, Healers are created for 1v1 PVP. Anyway, just my 2cents

 

[MeganPerk]

Question: Who is "we", example "We do not want 2 classes to clash and sit at a battle front for all eternity and not get anything done", just curious is all.

Hmmm, maybe your idea of what the Admin's say by balancing is wrong. I believe they mean more along the lines of being fair. Your taking it too literally. Perhaps you need to think of balancing as a general term, not so exact? And yes, I believe you are correct about the "hypocracy", losing 100% of the time doesn't have a very nice ring to it, when you say it like that. It should however, be difficult; difficult for Healers to win in a 1v1. You still don't acknowledge that Healers aren't a point on that Triangle I mentioned in my previous post. Your not built for Solo PVP and with that in mind shouldn't be used as such. Your grouping your class with Warriors, which is why your having difficulty with this subject, even before the thread/ comments began. Warriors are for killing, Healers for helping others survive; or at least, that's what we've all gathered from other games like Herocraft (Yes, I'm aware HC is not it's own game, though I wish it were).

Healer vs Warrior, Warrior if he isn't a complete scrub, should win. Because like a Crafter, Healers are created for 1v1 PVP. Anyway, just my 2cents

then riddle me this. If healers are meant to keep groups alive, lets say there are 2 groups. One group with 2 warriors, and the other group with a warrior and a healer.

The 2 warriors decide to attack the healer and the warrior seperately, pulling them into 2 seperate 1v1 battles. Who wins? Well the healer will die to the warrior and then the two warriors will gang up on the healer's teammate.

So lets spice it up. Both warriors will gang up on the healer's warrior. Well the healer cant even outheal 1 warrior, so the warrior will be sliced into mince cheese and then the healer gets ganged up on themself.

Explain to me why we have healers if this is what we are fighting for? If healers cannot make up for the damage loss from 1 dps class's damage, then what good are they?

They cant outheal even when spamming heals 100% of the time and they cant attack if they are spamming heals 100% of the time.
They can choose to stop healing and try to attack, but they cant compete damage wise against the warriors either. By not making healers viable in any way shape or form, having a healer is a downgrade in any instance from having another warrior.

If a healer cant simply keep himself alive in a 1v1 battle, how are they supposed to keep another class alive in an equal group?

Why have a healer in the group at all when you could grab another dps to kill the other team before the damage is even done for a healer to heal part of it?

A balanced fight would be the warrior trying to kill the healer while another warrior beats on the healer's friend. If luck permits, the warrior friend manages to kill the other warrior and come to the aid of their healer friend that is now out of mana.
-or-
Both warriors are attacking the healer's friend. The healer is able to make up for one of the warriors' damage, making the warrior able (if luck permits) to kill one of the warriors and engage in a 1v1 combat with the other warrior while the healer is now out of mana.

 

[Diffuse]

The power of a healer does not come from the ability to outheal damage, it comes from the ability to give an advantage to your teammates. A healer does not have to be able to keep himself or someone else alive through the damage someone is doing, the idea is that if your friend is trading blows, they have much more overall health than their opponent due to the healer. If heals are too weak to be useful in a group setting that should be fixed, but healers should never be able to win a 1v1 unless they are a monk (not really a healer) or against a complete idiot.

 

[MeganPerk]

The power of a healer does not come from the ability to outheal damage, it comes from the ability to give an advantage to your teammates. A healer does not have to be able to keep himself or someone else alive through the damage someone is doing, the idea is that if your friend is trading blows, they have much more overall health than their opponent due to the healer. If heals are too weak to be useful in a group setting that should be fixed, but healers should never be able to win a 1v1 unless they are a monk (not really a healer) or against a complete idiot.

I dont think that a healer should win every 1v1 either, but I at least feel that the healers should be able to escape to heal another day.

 

[EpicPoodle]

God damn it every thread you make megan turns into this huge freaking wall of text. I hate you

 

[Plob5]

Guys

I've tried to point this out on my notes thread.

Yes Clerics are OP but the times heal no attacking makes them not only not OP but they suck.

Monk is completely Balanced
Cleric without armour= Balanced
Druid is completely Balanced
Bloodmage add fireball again and they're balanced aswell.