Suggestion War

[RaekinTheBored]

Working on your town and trying to improve/expand it is really the only non-pvp centric thing to do anymore on HC (other than kill mobs to level grind).

Even improving/expanding in my town has seemed like it's susceptible to being raided on a constant basis (not as frequent as it has been mind you). But I guess that's the curse of not having a box with a one block hole in the roof as a town.

 

[leftovers5]

Favith If you want non-PVP features, suggest them. Also, if War is kept so both towns need to agree on it, people who prefer building can keep their town out of wars.

The point is is that we don't NEED "pvp features" right now, so why do we need to suggest "non pvp features" as counter measures?

 

[agentjwall]

Ideas like this have come up many times in the past and I'd definitely love to see something like this implemented.

My two cents:

• The cost of war should be by the hour. Battles and PvP tend to be very short-lived in Herocraft so a couple of hours should be more than ample for a war to take place. Prices should still be kept very high for these short times.
• Wars can only be waged on weekends. this would A.) Prevent real life from interfering with people's ability to defend their cities as much as possible. B.) Allow people from different time zones to participate more easily
• Wars must be declared at least 48 hours in advance. This would prevent late-night raids on other cities when no one is online and gives the defensive side ample time to ensure players will be online.

As for the exact mechanics I couldn't say since it's been a while since I've been on HC...

 

[Favith]

The point is is that we don't NEED "pvp features" right now, so why do we need to suggest "non pvp features" as counter measures?

Exactly--thanks, Leftovers, for stating it better than I did.

PvPers have been given so much lately. Do they really need this too? I'm not asking for more PVE features--I'm happy with Herotowns and what the plugin offers. What I'm asking for is that the one non-pvp aspect of HC that's left (towns) be left as is and not modified to make pvpers happy.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

The point is is that we don't NEED "pvp features" right now, so why do we need to suggest "non pvp features" as counter measures?

Okay, I figured out your idea. The problem is that PVPrs get too many features, and those who like PVE fix it by bitching about PVP and then get angry when they are told so suggest PVE.

 

[Favith]

Okay, I figured out your idea. The problem is that PVPrs get too many features, and those who like PVE fix it by bitching about PVP and then get angry when they are told so suggest PVE.

Ahh, MultiHeartGold, you really DON'T get it.

THIS thread is about THIS idea. In case you haven't read the thread (especially Danda's parts) THIS idea is talking about allowing pvpers access to the one significant non-pvp aspect that HC has left (towns).

We. Don't. Want. More. PVE. Perks. Nobody here is asking for that.

We want the ONE THING we have (again, towns) to be LEFT ALONE. Since this suggestion is about changing the status of Herotowns we have every right to voice our concerns. What you're not understanding is that our concerns have nothing to do with wanting more PVE perks, and yet you keep suggesting that we basically ignore the possible ramifications of this suggestion becoming reality and instead ask for more PVE perks? What does that have to do with anything ANYONE is talking about here?

 

[Danda]

PVP tournies/events are happening with some frequency. When was the last DoD?

Out of the countless events I have run I have only run one PvP event and that was the toilet wars event. Everything else has either been a DoD or some kind of puzzle for the player base to solve.

You sir are ignorant and miss informed

And now we have an admin (and others) saying that we need a war system to allow for "new and interesting situations". Of course, those "new and interesting" situations are pvp related. And this time they're heading in the direction of non consensual pvp related. Which, on the server as a whole is fine but towns are really the LAST thing that builders/creators have. Towns are the only safe haven left. Working on your town and trying to improve/expand it is really the only non-pvp centric thing to do anymore on HC (other than kill mobs to level grind). We're planning to take that away too? Like MajorasMask said, why even bother with towns then?

At no point have I said we NEED this I am merely throwing in my 2 cents and wanting people to try and help me flesh out an idea better so that it works for both parties. None of you have even attempted with that you've just said you hate the idea and complained about it.

 

[leftovers5]

Out of the countless events I have run I have only run one PvP event and that was the toilet wars event. Everything else has either been a DoD or some kind of puzzle for the player base to solve.

You sir are ignorant and miss informed

At no point have I said we NEED this I am merely throwing in my 2 cents and wanting people to try and help me flesh out an idea better so that it works for both parties. None of you have even attempted with that you've just said you hate the idea and complained about it.

We haven't attempted to "correct" the idea because we don't hold faith in it... On the same token, that's why we've been "shutting down" as they say.

 

[Danda]

My two cents:

1. The cost of war should be by the hour. Battles and PvP tend to be very short-lived in Herocraft so a couple of hours should be more than ample for a war to take place. Prices should still be kept very high for these short times.
2. Wars can only be waged on weekends. this would A.) Prevent real life from interfering with people's ability to defend their cities as much as possible. B.) Allow people from different time zones to participate more easily
3. Wars must be declared at least 48 hours in advance. This would prevent late-night raids on other cities when no one is online and gives the defensive side ample time to ensure players will be online.

As for the exact mechanics I couldn't say since it's been a while since I've been on HC...

1. This is fine by me I'm just translating mechanics from one game to another because I think they're cool. Like I have said numbers and values can easily be changed to better suit Herocraft. Though I feel that if it is by the hour numbers should be lowered but not by too much.

2. Not really seeing the need here. There's no real benefit to raiding an empty town. Seeing as in both suggestions raiders would not be able to loot chests.

3. This is a mechanic I forgot to mention and is a very good suggestion. There should be a large warning time before a war goes active so players cannot just declare war as and when they want to break into a township.

Will edit the Idea post to house these changes

We haven't attempted to "correct" the idea because we don't hold faith in it... On the same token, that's why we've been "shutting down" as they say.

Well say you don't like the idea and give reasoning for it then not just say "We don't need another pvp feature"
It's called constructive criticism.

 

[Favith]

Out of the countless events I have run I have only run one PvP event and that was the toilet wars event. Everything else has either been a DoD or some kind of puzzle for the player base to solve.

You sir are ignorant and miss informed

At no point have I said we NEED this I am merely throwing in my 2 cents and wanting people to try and help me flesh out an idea better so that it works for both parties. None of you have even attempted with that you've just said you hate the idea and complained about it.

At no point did I ask "when was the last time Danda hosted a DoD?" Nor did I at any point suggest that the arenas were your doing or that the pvp tournaments were organized by you. You took personal offense when none was meant--that doesn't make me "ignorant or miss informed" at all. If you thought I was attacking you personally then I apologize for my poor wording.

I have no interest in making this idea work for both parties because it's clear the idea is really only meant to benefit one party. I'm not here to offer "constructive criticism" on this idea because I cannot imagine a scenario when offering pvpers the ability to have region access to a town for money would ever be good for people who enjoy the town building aspect of this game.

I (and others, apparently) are in this thread to offer the counter argument. Giving you constructive criticism would mean that we want it to work in some way---but we don't (at least I don't). I'd like you to know why I think this is a bad idea. Not because I hate it. Not because I just want to complain about. This idea is a bad one because having a town currently has meaning. There is an element of protection that a well designed town offers. Really, the only way to get any meaningful protection is via a well designed town. This idea would eliminate that.

Not that I expect you to know my post history but it's not like I post all the time just to complain about things. In fact, as anti-pvp as I am I can honestly say that I'm happy the pvpers got rated arenas. I'm happy that the skirmish function exists. I'm happy they get pvp events. I'm happy they got the Black Market (it's lack of use notwithstanding). I'll be happy when anything else that is strictly pvp related gets added for the benefit of the player base that enjoys such activities.

What I'm not at all happy about is a suggestion that wants to add more pvp to what is arguably the most significant non-pvp draw of the server---Herotowns.

 

[Danda]

At no point did I ask "when was the last time Danda hosted a DoD?" Nor did I at any point suggest that the arenas were your doing or that the pvp tournaments were organized by you. You took personal offense when none was meant--that doesn't make me "ignorant or miss informed" at all. If you thought I was attacking you personally then I apologize for my poor wording.

I did not take this as a personal attack I was merely using myself as an example. The majority of events done this map are not pvp infact the Toilet Wars event me and Bearcat hosted was the first PvP event of the map and was hosted during the 3rd or 4th month of the map prior to which there had been many mob based events. There have only been 3 or 4 pvp events this map and there have been far more PvE and challenge based events that is why I called you ignorant.

Also saying you don't like the idea and giving reasoning behind it is constructive criticism (of which you have done while others have not)

Unrelated to Favith
I've updated my post with my suggestion on war mechanics with changes discussed thus far and have cleaned up the post to be more readable and not be a wall of text

 

[j2gay]

The only way this could possibly work , and still be fair to the town builders, is with a town style karma system. When a member of one town initiates combat with and kills the members of another town, that players town gets a negative karma. Towns must have a significantly negative karma in order for war to be declared on them.
This will prevent Neutral towns or good non-pvp towns from becoming embroiled in wars they want no part of. It would also serve as a natural curb against the random murder that takes place with all benefit and no negative effect.
Deaths in Arenas/skirmishes, as well as during the war would need to be discounted.
This would allow several good/neutral towns to declare war on an evil town that is perhaps causing issues in the area. There would still need to be a cost but it would be lower as there would need to be cause for going to war. To allow a town to declare war on any other town just because they feel like it and can afford to is not the right course.
The system I propose would also bring back meaning to the town alignment system as well as creating a political structure where alliances and non aggression pacts would have meaning. It would also make towns even more desirable, while making evil no longer without consequence.

 

[Danda]

-snip-

Something like this could be a way to go but I feel it should be tied in with the Karma system already being worked on. For example a towns alignment would be built from the average karma of its members. That way a towns karma is effected by the actions of it's members. I feel that people should be able to declare war on anyone but there still be varied consequences for doing so depending on circumstances.

Ontop of this maybe add in alignment changes depending on what the alignment of the town being attacked is. For example a town that declares war on a good or neutral town will take a hit to it's alignment making it more evil where as if a good town were to declare war on an evil town there wouldn't be any alignment hit at all. Ontop of that maybe make evil towns have a much larger cost on declaring war making it less desirable to attack others.

 

[j2gay]

Something like this could be a way to go but I feel it should be tied in with the Karma system already being worked on. For example a towns alignment would be built from the average karma of its members. That way a towns karma is effected by the actions of it's members. I feel that people should be able to declare war on anyone but there still be varied consequences for doing so depending on circumstances.

Ontop of this maybe add in alignment changes depending on what the alignment of the town being attacked is. For example a town that declares war on a good or neutral town will take a hit to it's alignment making it more evil where as if a good town were to declare war on an evil town there wouldn't be any alignment hit at all. Ontop of that maybe make evil towns have a much larger cost on declaring war making it less desirable to attack others.

Full agreement on the average system for town karma, exactly what I was getting at. I think alignment and Karma should go hand in hand as well.
As for being able to declare war on anyone. There are just too many negatives and potential abuses for this to be a viable option. Something needs to be said for neutrality. There needs to be a way for the people that have no desire for war to avoid it.