Suggestion Upcoming class revamp leveling suggestion

[Eldrylars]

Updated 4/25/13 12pm​

Updated 4/25/13 550pm - Graph and more class examples.​

updated 4/26/13 12am - Added link to second suggestion thread to post your ideas on what skills make the classes function.​

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Click here to go to the next step!​

I am suggesting today that we open up skills earlier and allow the skills to level with you!​

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There are many skills that you get late in the leveling process that would work great to have almost immediately and instead of gaining these skills at full power that start off with a 60% drop in effectiveness to allow them to become more powerful as you level very similar to the way weapons get better as you level!​

Looking over these changes there would be no change in the end game, but during the rest of play both new players and old players would be able to start using their new class much sooner and to much better effect from the get go. ​

This would not diminish the desire or need to level as some skills would be underpowered and other you would still need to level to obtain, but it would allow lower leveled players to start playing the game instead of waiting right off the bat.​

I think a proper mix of early skills to make a class usable mixed with additional skills gained as the class levels would immensely help the servers population and player-base as they play through the game.​

Perhaps my mad paint "skillez" could show what this change would do to the system.​

Numbers are there for example purposes only and should be ultimately decided by the balance team and server admins. Please remember the idea is not to adjust the end power of a class but to give players more options as they are leveling and more time to learn their class as they are getting to learn their skills earlier!​

As an example:​

Everyone's favorite class to discuss. Wizard!​

Level 1:​

Potion ...​

Fireball - You throw a fireball at your target, dealing (131 + 0.5-per-level) damage and setting your target on fire. ​

Scan ...​

Replenish - You regain (40% + 1%-per-level) of your mana.​

Icebolt - You strike your target within an icebolt, dealing (30 + 1-per-level) damage and slowing them for 4 seconds.​

Level 10:​

Root - You root your target within (8 + 0.1-per-level) blocks in place for (2 + 0.04-per-level) seconds.​

Pulse - You deal (56 + 1-per-level) force damage to enemies within 5 blocks. Takes 1.3 seconds to warm up. ​

Bolt - You strike your target within (10.5 + 0.05-per-level) blocks with lightning, dealing (165 + 2-per-level) damage. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Level 20:​

Port ...​

Blink - You are teleported up to 12 blocks in the direction you are looking. Cool down decreases (20 - 0.2-per-level) as you level​

Fireblast - You blast your target within (8 + 0.01-per-level) blocks for (100 + 1-per-level) damage. Mana cost and cool down both reduce by .25% per level. ​

Level 30:​

Megabolt - You strike your target (within 12 blocks) and all enemies within within 5 blocks of your target for (130 + 1-per-level) damage. Takes (1.25 - .004-per-level) seconds to warm up. ​

Level 40:​

Shock - You strike your target (within 13 blocks) and all enemies within 5 blocks of your target for (25 + .9-per-level) damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds. Takes 1 second to warm up. ​

Level 55:​

Group Teleport ...​

Or... Dreadknight!​

Level 1:​

Potion ...​

Bash ...​

Disarm ...​

Decay ...​

BecomeDeath ...​

Soulleech - For 18 seconds, your target (within 7 blocks) takes (15 + 0.16-per-level) damage every 3 seconds and you gain (75% + 1.25%-per-level) of the damage as health. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Level 10:​

Manafreeze - You stop your target's mana regeneration (within 7 blocks) for (8 + 0.12-per-level) seconds.

Level 20:​

Harmtouch - You deal (200 + 1.6-per-level) dark damage to your target (within 4 blocks), at the same time taking (90 - 0.25-per-level) damage to yourself.

Level 30:​

Empathy - You deal dark damage to your target (within 7 blocks) equal to your missing health up to a max. of (100 + 1.6-per-level) damage, and your target is slowed for 4 seconds. ​

Level 40:​

Curse ...​

Level 55:​

Terror ...​

Or... Disciple​

Level 1:​

Potion ...
Smite - You deal (50 + 1.1-per-level) damage to your target (within 5 blocks). )
Bandage - You heal your target (within 8 blocks) for (65 + 1.4-per-level) health points and remove Bleed. Takes 2 seconds to warm up.
Scan ...
Antidote ...
Safefall ...
Pray- You heal your target (within 10 blocks) for (150 + 1.65-per-level) health points. Takes 2.5 seconds to warm up.

Level 10:​

Forcepush - You force your target (within 5 blocks) away from you and deal them (10 + 1-per-level) damage.
Forcepull - You pull your target (within 10 blocks) toward you and deal them (10 + 1-per-level) damage.

Level 20:​

Balance ...
FlyingKick - You kick your target (within 5 blocks) upward, dealing (0 + 1-per-level) damage, and silence your target for 4 seconds

Level 30:​

Meditate - You regain (50% + .84%-per-level) of your mana and (10 + .16-per-level) stamina. Takes 2.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Chakra - You radiate a group heal of (0 + 1.84-per-level) health and remove a random debuff to party members within 10 blocks.

Level 40:​

IronFist - You punch entities within a 5 block radius of you, knocking them up and away and delivering (0 + 1.7-per-level) damage. ​

Level 55:​

Reborn ...​

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Rumblestikk Ellron23 Nightroado Northac lumont Sigpit Danda EtKEnn Symbolite MultiHeartGold Jonsoon macura Drastikos Haxnn AzenYumCha Xerot Oudaiesty EzMac2099

 

[Scycor]

This would be interesting, it would give people a chance to check out the skills and practice using them before they get to 60. (I know you can do that on the test server, but this would be better)

EDIT: Is it just me that the "like" button doesn't work?

 

[kirinelf]

I can see some pros and cons to the idea. On the one hand, you get to try out every class early on and decide which one you like best without needing to level. You also have all your abilities right off the bat to experiment with and find new uses for.

But on the other hand you're also removing the suspense for new abilities, that sense of anticipation that you're going to get something for your trouble levelling the class. It'll make the classes boring after a while, especially if there aren't any useful skills they get by levelling.

 

[Delfofthebla]

(CARRIED OVER FROM PREVIOUS THREAD)

Updated the graph to try to make it a little easier to understand what I am saying.



I understand and I will not say that I think it would be more incentive to level, in fact I suppose I am trying to remove the need for pure leveling.
The biggest incentive to level right now in the game is so your character is playable. I will challenge you that this method is not the best way to run the game. My challenge is to make the process of playing and the process of leveling as flowing as possible. By starting players off with 40% of their class effectiveness already and quickly bringing them to 60-80% you will actually drop the need to level by a lot while still creating a need to level! A level 60 will still most likely floor a level 20 or 30 but, there is an actual chance that the player could fight or help their friends fight.

Like I said to Templar when he said "Strong classes should have a shitty time playing the game until their mastered" Why? Why play a game that is only fun when you reach the end? Why can't the whole trip be fun?
By giving the essential skills to players early and allow them to gain some skills and more powerful versions of the ones they already have from leveling it creates a nice slowed sloped climb until they finally hit Mastery. This way though the whole climb they get to actually play their class instead of not until it's over.

While I see what you are saying, I would rather see this problem solved in a different manner. Such as the Dungeons or HeroBoss stuff. The reason leveling is a chore is not because you don't have your skills, but because there is no actual PVE on Herocraft. If you add PVE content, there is no need to alter skills in the way you describe.

I am more on the side of Dsawemd here. It's the RPG standard to acquire new skills as you "grow in power". To be given everything at once and have it be lackluster from the beginning is boring and uninteresting. You no longer get the rush of "Yes! Now I have <skill here>!"

Even with your suggestion, you will still find players needing to be "maxed" for your class to be playable. The fact of the matter is, there is no need for your primary class other than PVP. Without PVE content, your health, your damage, your skills--they're all completely worthless. They're just meaningless fluff that serve to make you feel better about yourself.

Until PVE content is created, the issue you described will still exist. This system is not the answer, and I don't think it's a good idea. Simply re-arranging the level at which you receive skills is the better solution until we actually see some content updates.

 

[Eldrylars]

I can see some pros and cons to the idea. On the one hand, you get to try out every class early on and decide which one you like best without needing to level. You also have all your abilities right off the bat to experiment with and find new uses for.

But on the other hand you're also removing the suspense for new abilities, that sense of anticipation that you're going to get something for your trouble levelling the class. It'll make the classes boring after a while, especially if there aren't any useful skills they get by levelling.

If your skills start out at on 30% of their max capabilities and with every level you get another +1% to their duration/cooldown/output then although you want see a huge bang when you level you will see a difference every 5 levels.

It idea could also be balance by mixing it up. Some skills are gained while you level but maybe half of the skills there are now, the other half are given at the start and level with you.

For instance, Updating main post.

 

[Templar_James]

I'm confused why would wizard get strong both early and late game. If your able to dish out over 600+ damage at level 60 within 2 seconds there should be repercussions which is to have a shitty early game not both.

 

[Eldrylars]

I'm confused why would wizard get strong both early and late game. If your able to dish out over 600+ damage at level 60 within 2 seconds there should be repercussions which is to have a shitty early game not both.

It would make every class playable at all times throughout play but yet still give incentive to level.
They will still have less HP, less Mana and less damage then a maxed wizard but they will at least have the skill to try to fight.

My answer to your question is I don't believe there should be any "shitty" game time at all, early mid or late.
I return the question to you.
Why should a player have to level to 60 to be able to start playing the game?
Are you against the idea because you want easy targets to kill and you are afraid that this will give newer players at least a chance to beat a seasoned player if they play their cards right?

 

[Eldrylars]

In general making changes like this would not effect high level PVP at all.
What it would do is allow new players to experience the game and enjoy playing the diverse classes of the game from the start while still getting benefits from obtaining the higher levels.

For players like James, it would not effect their masters level PVP at all, but it would make it harder to camp completely new players.

Honestly the more I think about this layout for skills the more sense it makes each time I try to discredit it. The only player type I can see that would really be opposed to this would be those that would be upset that easy targets were given a small chance to fight back.

Can anyone else see how this would do anything other then help players have more fun while they are leveling and playing through the game? Templar point of view is that players should have a "shitty" time playing the game until they have mastered. I am the only person who thinks that frame of mind and style of play is absurd? I can't see what is added to a game by forcing someone have to have a "shitty" time playing it?

 

[MultiHeartGold]

The only player type I can see that would really be opposed to this would be those that would be upset that easy targets were given a small chance to fight back.

I disagree with the suggestion. Does that automaticly make me a noob camper?

 

[Eldrylars]

I disagree with the suggestion. Does that automaticly make me a noob camper?

No but it's makes your disagreement more moot(to me) as I can't understand what it is that you disagree with unless you explain it.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

No but it's makes your disagreement more moot(to me) as I can't understand what it is that you disagree with unless you explain it.

I disagree, because I would find what you suggest would change every class a lot and would possibly require some balancing (only possibly), and all that would just be a bit unnecessary trouble. Its like trying to eat a horse when you are aldready full.

 

[Eldrylars]

I disagree, because I would find what you suggest would change every class a lot and would possibly require some balancing (only possibly), and all that would just be a bit unnecessary trouble. Its like trying to eat a horse when you are aldready full.

Thanks for giving me a heads up with your reasons for disagreeing! I am glad to see that the main reason you are disliking the suggestion is from a productivity standpoint and not a gameplay standpoint!
I do disagree with most of what is holding you up though

I do agree that skills would need to be picked over for what is "needed" to play a class and what is "awarded" through play it's not going to change the classes at all! The skill will remain the same in the end, the only thing that would change is that you could get less useful version of skill/spells earlier to use with your class. This would not add any skills to the game or unbalance any classes because classes are not balanced to fight each other before mastery. Honestly if a little bit of care is taken, this WILL balance all the classes properly for ALL levels!
You mentioned worry at the time it would take to make this happen. I can understand from the stand point of someone who does not write code that it might seem that way. In reality though it just changing a few numbers in a document.
Changes like this would take minutes, once the changes were decided on.
Can you honestly say it's not needed though? I suppose you could say it's just smoothing out a system that is already decent. That's not a reason to hold off improvements though. Everything has a place in it's importance! Since in a week or so all the classes are being revamped anyhow this is the best time ever to change the leveling curve and usability of all the classes in the game.

 

[Haxnn]

I disagree, because I would find what you suggest would change every class a lot and would possibly require some balancing (only possibly), and all that would just be a bit unnecessary trouble. Its like trying to eat a horse when you are aldready full.

I have to disagree with this post. This isn't unecessary trouble, he is putting forth and effot to make the game enjoyable for all players. A very large number of members have not mastered their class, and are stuck with only a few skills and very limited options when it come to PVP. At the moment, leveling is not the most enjoyable thing to do on the server, and therefore discourages many players to bother leveling up. This suggestions encourages leveling and gives all players a shot when it comes to PVP, as oppose to no chance at all.

 

[Eldrylars]

Angyles
Hey could you help me out and change the title of this post to?
Upcoming class revamp leveling suggestion

Thanks

 

[Kainzo]

changed

 

[Eldrylars]

Thanks Kainzo

 

[werwew19]

I'm confused why would wizard get strong both early and late game. If your able to dish out over 600+ damage at level 60 within 2 seconds there should be repercussions which is to have a shitty early game not both.

I still don't understand your hate on wizards. Last time I checked everyone should have a fair leveling process no?

 

[Eldrylars]

I still don't understand your hate on wizards. Last time I checked everyone should have a fair leveling process no?

Not everything is going to be fair, but can we all agree that it should always be fun?

 

[werwew19]

Yeah after reading the post and the effort and thought put into it. I recruited quite a few players who quit because they didn't have fun through the leveling process ever since MA was removed it is making the game much harder which I am fine with but for new players who just want to pvp some people don't have the patience to grind for a few hours a day just to master a class. If specs got a lot of cool skills at an earlier level it would definitely increase pvp and the player base in general as it would make it more fun.

 

[Eldrylars]

I recruited quite a few players who quit because they didn't have fun through the leveling process ever since MA

But even the MA's were not "fun" after a while, you still were grinding to minimal skills just so you could get something fun and useful to play with. The main thing removing the MA's had done was increase the work to get those skills which just makes the usefulness gap more apparent!

By giving most of the primary skills earlier for players to use and then having them get better to the point they were previously allows a lot more options in play through the whole process. Which, as far as I can see it will heavily promote players having fun even if the process to master is slow!

I am definitely a fan of it taking a long time to master, but the whole trip there could be a blast instead of a bomb.