Suggestion Upcoming class revamp leveling suggestion

[werwew19]

But even the MA's were not "fun" after a while, you still were grinding to minimal skills just so you could get something fun and useful to play with. The main thing removing the MA's had done was increase the work to get those skills which just makes the usefulness gap more apparent!

By giving most of the primary skills earlier for players to use and then having them get better to the point they were previously allows a lot more options in play through the whole process. Which, as far as I can see it will heavily promote players having fun even if the process to master is slow!

I am definitely a fan of it taking a long time to master, but the whole trip there could be a blast instead of a bomb.

You're right they can get boring but you did master quicker and that might be one of the reasons why dragon had a larger playerbase who pvp'd

 

[LordZelkova]

You're right they can get boring but you did master quicker and that might be one of the reasons why dragon had a larger playerbase who pvp'd

*cough* might + cleave *cough*

 

[Arturec]

http://www.herocraftonline.com/wiki/Leveling - Levelling chart..

The current levelling chart looks pretty OK, and for levelling, right now most classes get their main/best abilities at around 45-50-55-60

*Cough* Ninja *Cough* Beguiler *Cough* Dreadknight *Cough* etc.

 

[leftovers5]

If I remember correctly, Kainzo originally intended for skills as well as weapon damage to improve as you level.

 

[kirinelf]

In terms of ease of implementation, I don't see how hard it could be. As it is skills like Fireball and Bash already have a damage modifier depending on your level that can be edited in the config file, it's only skills like Icebolt that don't.

Having a modifier for every skill that increases range/potency/damage/chance to activate every level shouldn't be too hard, in my opinion, and then all you gotta do is chuck it in the skills.yml file and modify it to something that makes sense.

 

[Arturec]

I've done heroes for a server before and it's actually really easy to configure any existing skills, it only takes a minute or 2 and there's even some kind of "generator" or something that helps you (A gui sort of program that will generate it once you put in specs and stuff )

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

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Updated 4/25/13 12pm​

Updated 4/25/13 550pm - Graph and more class examples.​

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I am suggesting today that we open up skills earlier and allow the skills to level with you!​

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There are many skills that you get late in the leveling process that would work great to have almost immediately and instead of gaining these skills at full power that start off with a 60% drop in effectiveness to allow them to become more powerful as you level very similar to the way weapons get better as you level!​

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Looking over these changes there would be no change in the end game, but during the rest of play both new players and old players would be able to start using their new class much sooner and to much better effect from the get go. ​

This would not diminish the desire or need to level as some skills would be underpowered and other you would still need to level to obtain, but it would allow lower leveled players to start playing the game instead of waiting right off the bat.​

I think a proper mix of early skills to make a class usable mixed with additional skills gained as the class levels would immensely help the servers population and player-base as they play through the game.​

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Perhaps my mad paint "skillez" could show what this change would do to the system.​

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Numbers are there for example purposes only and should be ultimately decided by the balance team and server admins. Please remember the idea is not to adjust the end power of a class but to give players more options as they are leveling and more time to learn their class as they are getting to learn their skills earlier!​

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As an example:​

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Everyone's favorite class to discuss. Wizard!​

Level 1:​

Potion ...​

Fireball - You throw a fireball at your target, dealing (131 + 0.5-per-level) damage and setting your target on fire. ​

Scan ...​

Replenish - You regain (40% + 1%-per-level) of your mana.​

Icebolt - You strike your target within an icebolt, dealing (30 + 1-per-level) damage and slowing them for 4 seconds.​

Level 10:​

Root - You root your target within (8 + 0.1-per-level) blocks in place for (2 + 0.04-per-level) seconds.​

Pulse - You deal (56 + 1-per-level) force damage to enemies within 5 blocks. Takes 1.3 seconds to warm up. ​

Bolt - You strike your target within (10.5 + 0.05-per-level) blocks with lightning, dealing (165 + 2-per-level) damage. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Level 20:​

Port ...​

Blink - You are teleported up to 12 blocks in the direction you are looking. Cool down decreases (20 - 0.2-per-level) as you level​

Fireblast - You blast your target within (8 + 0.01-per-level) blocks for (100 + 1-per-level) damage. Mana cost and cool down both reduce by .25% per level. ​

Level 30:​

Megabolt - You strike your target (within 12 blocks) and all enemies within within 5 blocks of your target for (130 + 1-per-level) damage. Takes (1.25 - .004-per-level) seconds to warm up. ​

Level 40:​

Shock - You strike your target (within 13 blocks) and all enemies within 5 blocks of your target for (25 + .9-per-level) damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds. Takes 1 second to warm up. ​

Level 55:​

Group Teleport ...​

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Or... Dreadknight!​

Level 1:​

Potion ...​

Bash ...​

Disarm ...​

Decay ...​

BecomeDeath ...​

Soulleech - For 18 seconds, your target (within 7 blocks) takes (15 + 0.16-per-level) damage every 3 seconds and you gain (75% + 1.25%-per-level) of the damage as health. Takes 1.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Level 10:​

Manafreeze - You stop your target's mana regeneration (within 7 blocks) for (8 + 0.12-per-level) seconds.

Level 20:​

Harmtouch - You deal (200 + 1.6-per-level) dark damage to your target (within 4 blocks), at the same time taking (90 - 0.25-per-level) damage to yourself.

Level 30:​

Empathy - You deal dark damage to your target (within 7 blocks) equal to your missing health up to a max. of (100 + 1.6-per-level) damage, and your target is slowed for 4 seconds. ​

Level 40:​

Curse ...​

Level 55:​

Terror ...​

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Or... Disciple​

Level 1:​

Potion ...
Smite - You deal (50 + 1.1-per-level) damage to your target (within 5 blocks). )
Bandage - You heal your target (within 8 blocks) for (65 + 1.4-per-level) health points and remove Bleed. Takes 2 seconds to warm up.
Scan ...
Antidote ...
Safefall ...
Pray- You heal your target (within 10 blocks) for (150 + 1.65-per-level) health points. Takes 2.5 seconds to warm up.

Level 10:​

Forcepush - You force your target (within 5 blocks) away from you and deal them (10 + 1-per-level) damage.
Forcepull - You pull your target (within 10 blocks) toward you and deal them (10 + 1-per-level) damage.

Level 20:​

Balance ...
FlyingKick - You kick your target (within 5 blocks) upward, dealing (0 + 1-per-level) damage, and silence your target for 4 seconds

Level 30:​

Meditate - You regain (50% + .84%-per-level) of your mana and (10 + .16-per-level) stamina. Takes 2.5 seconds to warm up. ​

Chakra - You radiate a group heal of (0 + 1.84-per-level) health and remove a random debuff to party members within 10 blocks.

Level 40:​

IronFist - You punch entities within a 5 block radius of you, knocking them up and away and delivering (0 + 1.7-per-level) damage. ​

Level 55:​

Reborn ...​

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This man is a freaking genius! Every post he makes is an absolutely amazing idea or comment ! <3

 

[Eldrylars]

..

<3

 

[Eldrylars]

New suggestion thread to give you input on what skills make a class and how you would like to play your class from the start if you had to start over!​

 

[lioIIoil]

It dosen't take long to master a class. In the end both ways turn out the same. If we are going to spend time with this then we should change other things.

 

[Eldrylars]

I like the intent, but I suspect that by giving players their "needed" skills early you will be removing the incentive to level.

One way to combat this would be to make the new level bump be very rewarding to each class, so mastering retains its get-through-the-grind appeal.

ps. While I do not mean to insult your Paint skills, your graphs are confusingly similar, and I actually believe that the staggered staircase-y graph applies to this suggestion more than the current system (For example: Disciple getting ForcePush and ForcePull at level 10 seems much more like that chunky graph rather than the seamless flowing line graph).​

The incentive would come in with new skills being the smaller part and more powerful versions of the skills as you level. That's how you would get more of a smooth slope. You would see a boost in their functionality by getting a new skill but it would be less then how it is now because the skill would be more limited until you level.

For instance,
Level 10:
Forcepush - You force your target (within 5 blocks) away from you and deal them (10 + 1-per-level) damage.

This means at level 10 when you get forcepush it will only deal 20 damage, where as at level 60 it will deal 70 damage. So for gaining those additional levels your reward is 3.5 times more damage every cast. Thats where the steady slope comes in. I will fix the graph one more time to better show it!

I understand.
I am comparing the reward of 'getting entirely new skills upon reaching a level milestone' to 'getting a passive damage increase with the skills at each level'. I think that the former is much more appealing and makes leveling more rewarding than the latter.

I understand and I will not say that I think it would be more incentive to level, in fact I suppose I am trying to remove the need for pure leveling.
The biggest incentive to level right now in the game is so your character is playable. I will challenge you that this method is not the best way to run the game. My challenge is to make the process of playing and the process of leveling as flowing as possible. By starting players off with 40% of their class effectiveness already and quickly bringing them to 60-80% you will actually drop the need to level by a lot while still creating a need to level! A level 60 will still most likely floor a level 20 or 30 but, there is an actual chance that the player could fight or help their friends fight.

Like I said to Templar when he said "Strong classes should have a shitty time playing the game until their mastered" Why? Why play a game that is only fun when you reach the end? Why can't the whole trip be fun?
By giving the essential skills to players early and allow them to gain some skills and more powerful versions of the ones they already have from leveling it creates a nice slowed sloped climb until they finally hit Mastery. This way though the whole climb they get to actually play their class instead of not until it's over.

Correct my bad writing from my dead brain.

This does not effect me as I have been the same class and mastered since the beginning of the map
Being a Mayor for 6 months I have lost at least 30 if not 50 players after joining my town. They all eventually leave the game because they could not play the game effectively until they leveled until at least 45-50.
Not taking away the rewards from leveling or numbing down the game but starting off the player with the skills they needed to survive and enjoy the process of leveling would have saved at least a dozen of them from leaving.

Either way this is best talked about in the other discussion, this discussion is for people to propose the skills they think classes need to be effective.
I would love to keep debating and or discussing this but lets move it here.

 

[Eldrylars]

It dosen't take long to master a class. In the end both ways turn out the same. If we are going to spend time with this then we should change other things.

For players who play a lot and level constantly it would take a couple/few weeks to master(without a huge xp bonus)
For players who have limited amounts of play time it does take a long time to level a class.

Rumble was still not Mastered after 4 months as his time was spent working with his city and it takes a LOT of time to level
It took me about 2 months to Master. I am a stubborn person and I can deal well with the downer of not being very useful until I was 50th but most people will not play a game that is not fun from the beginning. Honestly I don't blame them!

Now I am not saying that Herocraft is "Not Fun" from the beginning, but I am saying that classes are "Not Fun" to play in the beginning because the skills that really make most classes aren't achieved until 40+.

Edit: I will add that what I am proposing is NOT hard to change. If the numbers were decided it would take less then two hours to update the classes.

 

[Dsawemd]

Original post claims that the goal is to remove the need for pure leveling, but I disagree. Herocraft has always rewarded leveling with skills, time and effort with desirable fun/good abilities.

One thing I would suggest with the level revamp is a tightening of the initial and mastered health pools by raising the initial health of mastered classes with a lower increase per level until reaching current mastered levels.
This would help make varied level pvp last longer, and increase the ability of low leveled players to work together in pvp to kill a higher leveled harasser.

 

[Eldrylars]

Original post claims that the goal is to remove the need for pure leveling, but I disagree. Herocraft has always rewarded leveling with skills, time and effort with desirable fun/good abilities.

One thing I would suggest with the level revamp is a tightening of the initial and mastered health pools by raising the initial health of mastered classes with a lower increase per level until reaching current mastered levels.
This would help make varied level pvp last longer, and increase the ability of low leveled players to work together in pvp to kill a higher leveled harasser.

Although I agree on the idea of getting newer players into the game earlier, I disagree that giving them a health bonus would make the game any more enjoyable or really, give any type of reasonable edge to new players other then working as a larger damage absorber before they die, which will not add anything "fun" to their experience, just continued frustration.

Your discussion is reasonable and I and not discounting it, but I will say we are just at odds on how we feel this would help the server.

Simply put your favored style of play is to struggle through until you get the big bonuses for investing a lot of time and completing the "grind," and you feel more fulfilled by the difficult track working all the way to the end gives. My preferred style of play is to have the tools I need to play while I make my way to the end. My fun comes from figuring out how to play my class, and while I am doing that I make a slow track to the end, not so much as a goal but as a point.

We just have contending ideals.
I do feel though that more people would be happier by growing with their characters level by level then they would from working through the grind, and so far with the people that have commented and rated it seems that it's 80% to 20% but maybe there is a good middle ground. I thought my proposals above were a good middle ground but can you think of a better one? With the suggestion being against your preferred play-style, what could make a system like I am proposing more palatable?

 

[thomasyeung9999]

I dunno will this balance out all the idea of u guys made, but i am putting effort on suggesting, this:
For any SPECED Class, the first 15 lvs will be a free for all skill, like all skill but nerfed alot comparing to when u get that skill by lvling, so when u are weak, like under lv15, u can gain some abilities to defend urself, like a guardian spellbook?partner combined with u when u start ur journey, then when u get over lv15, u will have the skill that lv15 or under has. As u lv u will gain more skill , not the nerfed one. So whats ur suggestions to this idea. I think the lore is okay with this, since it doesnt sound strange.

 

[Eldrylars]

I dunno will this balance out all the idea of u guys made, but i am putting effort on suggesting, this:
For any SPECED Class, the first 15 lvs will be a free for all skill, like all skill but nerfed alot comparing to when u get that skill by lvling, so when u are weak, like under lv15, u can gain some abilities to defend urself, like a guardian spellbook?partner combined with u when u start ur journey, then when u get over lv15, u will have the skill that lv15 or under has. As u lv u will gain more skill , not the nerfed one. So whats ur suggestions to this idea. I think the lore is okay with this, since it doesnt sound strange.

I am translating your suggestion as: All specs start with dumbed down version of all their class skills and as they level up the dumbed down ones are replaced by their normal versions?

It's an interesting idea and workable. I am not a big fan myself as I personally like it when skills raise with you as I have suggested. Also I would add that you don't need all your skills at the start, I think we should start with more skills and get the more important ones earlier but I for most new players getting all their skills to sort through might make their heads explode. Although if you get all your main skills by 30th level its still pretty quick, maybe to quick for new players to learn. Maybe.

 

[Oudaiesty]

(CARRIED OVER FROM PREVIOUS THREAD)



While I see what you are saying, I would rather see this problem solved in a different manner. Such as the Dungeons or HeroBoss stuff. The reason leveling is a chore is not because you don't have your skills, but because there is no actual PVE on Herocraft. If you add PVE content, there is no need to alter skills in the way you describe.

I see what you said but I don't see how your solution precludes Eldrylars solution. Either way it goes in the end when you've maxed level both Dungeons and Scalable leveling decline in attractiveness considerably. Unless we have a wide range(Very very wide) of loot to attain from Dungeons and bosses they're both in the same ball park, because even enchanted gear provided by default lacks wow factor after getting a whole bunch of the same thing over and over again.