Trade Theft is ok rule?

[cindy_k]

So last night I went to trade a Gold Crate Key thing to another player, TheAncientTeam, for a Crate.

This was my very first time attempting to trade anything on HeroCraft.

1. Discussion: I guess to make sure the two traders don't scam each other, the trade was discussed and the items shown in the Trade channel.
2. Meet: We then went to the /skill warp to trade.
3. Witnesses: 5 different players were there but there seems to be no help for that, as the trade was publicly announced and there is no where private to go.

a. No way for a new player like myself to warp somewhere else
b. Trade rooms are closed​

4. Theft: During the trade a different player ( MunchlaxHero ) stole my Gold Key thing before TheAncientTeam could get it

5. I gave TheAncientTeam back his crate, as it wasn't his fault the my item got stolen

So I am left with and nothing else.

The theft of my item seemed to be acceptable to everyone and not against the rules.

Is that really the rule?
MunchlaxHero says he asked a mod in TS about it. Who reportedly said that stealing someone else's trade is allowed.

If I decide to play some more, I do know that I will not be trading anything to anyone again until there is a better method of doing so. There really seems to be no method to prevent what happened with the current setup.

Trade rooms aren't awesome but they do allow two players a relatively safe spot to trade at a spawn area.
A simple Room with two pressure plates to keep the doors closed usually serves.

 

[victim130]

So last night I went to trade a Gold Crate Key thing to another player, TheAncientTeam, for a Crate.

This was my very first time attempting to trade anything on HeroCraft.

1. Discussion: I guess to make sure the two traders don't scam each other, the trade was discussed and the items shown in the Trade channel.
2. Meet: We then went to the /skill warp to trade.
3. Witnesses: 5 different players were there but there seems to be no help for that, as the trade was publicly announced and there is no where private to go.

a. No way for a new player like myself to warp somewhere else
b. Trade rooms are closed​

4. Theft: During the trade a different player ( MunchlaxHero ) stole my Gold Key thing before TheAncientTeam could get it

5. I gave TheAncientTeam back his crate, as it wasn't his fault the my item got stolen

So I am left with and nothing else.

The theft of my item seemed to be acceptable to everyone and not against the rules.

Is that really the rule?
MunchlaxHero says he asked a mod in TS about it. Who reportedly said that stealing someone else's trade is allowed.

If I decide to play some more, I do know that I will not be trading anything to anyone again until there is a better method of doing so. There really seems to be no method to prevent what happened with the current setup.

Trade rooms aren't awesome but they do allow two players a relatively safe spot to trade at a spawn area.
A simple Room with two pressure plates to keep the doors closed usually serves.

First off: @munchlaxhero is an idiot. Pushing players away from the server is just as bad as advertising in my honest opinion.

Second off: Herocraft is meant to be unforgiving, not to be rude, but you need to cut your losses and learn from the experience.

Third off: I agree that this system is unfair, but staff has in the past threatened me over the very same offense. If you truly want to fight it, take it up with an Admin. Trades should have some better ways of going on, not all members will have towns they can trust, not all players will have towns. Spawn is also the only place most players are willing to trade at. To have it be legal for a player to steal in a no-pvp zone under a grey area, that's not alright. Its the same bull that was happening in PvE. Its not "Hardcore" for a player to steal an item and get away free of charge. The idea of hardcore should go both ways.

Lastly: Players should learn to not target important members. Harassment in this form may be legal rules wise, but when your game falls apart when all the coders and devs are scared off, you lose too.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I caught the tail end of this situation in O chat. It sounded like it was a very unpleasant and dispiriting experience for you, @cindy_k . I personally was also pretty uncomfortable about the impression the discussion in O chat must have been giving any new players on the server about the community here.

Any number of players like running through other players who look like they're setting up trades at the spawns. I always head off to a private place and make sure that no one else is in sight before dropping trade items or acting like I'm ready to receive them. I haven't found these fabled Trade Rooms yet. However I have found a number of buildings and rooms around Aegis spawn, Sanctuary spawn and Central Landing where I've been able to conduct trades in private.

I probably learned this super-conservative behaviour a couple of maps ago when I lost a some valuable trade items to a Thief at Spawn. Never again.

I know this doesn't change your experience. I'm just relating from my own.

 

[devotedworker]

I caught the tail end of this situation in O chat. I sounded like it was a very unpleasant and dispiriting experience for you, @cindy_k . I personally was also pretty uncomfortable about the impression the discussion in O chat must have been giving any new players on the server about the community here.

Any number of players like running through other players who look like they're setting up trades at the spawns. I always head off to a private place and make sure that no one else is in sight before dropping trade items or acting like I'm ready to receive them. I haven't found these fabled Trade Rooms yet. However I have found a number of buildings and rooms around Aegis spawn, Sanctuary spawn and Central Landing where I've been able to conduct trades in private.

I probably learned this super-conservative behaviour a couple of maps ago when I lost a some valuable trade items to a Thief at Spawn. Never again.

I know this doesn't change your experience. I'm just relating from my own.

Of course. Its not exactly a friendly discussion XD Best we can do is solve the issue

The trade rooms can be accessed if you go strait off the boat to central and inspect the buildings that you run into if you just go exactly strait from the docks.

 

[Eneokun]

3. Witnesses: 5 different players were there but there seems to be no help for that, as the trade was publicly announced and there is no where private to go

b. Trade rooms are closed​

You are talking about the trade rooms at central, are you? Because they seem the only perfect trading place and I've never traded anywhere else before. I didn't even know there were trade rooms at spawn, or did I misunderstand something here?
However, if a third person gets into the trading room at central while it's closed, it's a hacker. And in that case, I think the matter would've been solved already before this thread.

It's a rough fact, no refunds, that's the rule. I wish it simply wasn't a crate key... that's a severe loss. Some players are just complete retards. But tell me a game where you don't have to deal with this kind of players. It's sad. But thanks for sharing this on the forums, one less to trust.

All we can do is to appeal to the staff to become more severe when it comes to chat and trading rules in general, in my opinion. But this kind of discussion is already running elsewhere.

 

[Kainzo]

So last night I went to trade a Gold Crate Key thing to another player, TheAncientTeam, for a Crate.

This was my very first time attempting to trade anything on HeroCraft.

1. Discussion: I guess to make sure the two traders don't scam each other, the trade was discussed and the items shown in the Trade channel.
2. Meet: We then went to the /skill warp to trade.
3. Witnesses: 5 different players were there but there seems to be no help for that, as the trade was publicly announced and there is no where private to go.

a. No way for a new player like myself to warp somewhere else
b. Trade rooms are closed​

4. Theft: During the trade a different player ( MunchlaxHero ) stole my Gold Key thing before TheAncientTeam could get it

5. I gave TheAncientTeam back his crate, as it wasn't his fault the my item got stolen

So I am left with and nothing else.

The theft of my item seemed to be acceptable to everyone and not against the rules.

Is that really the rule?
MunchlaxHero says he asked a mod in TS about it. Who reportedly said that stealing someone else's trade is allowed.

If I decide to play some more, I do know that I will not be trading anything to anyone again until there is a better method of doing so. There really seems to be no method to prevent what happened with the current setup.

Trade rooms aren't awesome but they do allow two players a relatively safe spot to trade at a spawn area.
A simple Room with two pressure plates to keep the doors closed usually serves.

Two things we had in the past.

1) "Player-Trade" - right-click a player with an open hand to trade, it'd bring up a neat little GUI that would allow you to transfer items and basically was similar to WoW / EQ. The menu was taken out because of dupes that occurred with this new system.
2) "Inventory Stealing" - allowed a "thief" class to actually steal something from your inventory, it would usually give a msg "Soandso is snooping!" and if you looked at him, they'd die instantly and something like "GUARDS" would kill them.

I think we need to change this scenario, just running around and picking up peoples items isnt cool.

 

[UltimateOptics]

Two things we had in the past.

1) "Player-Trade" - right-click a player with an open hand to trade, it'd bring up a neat little GUI that would allow you to transfer items and basically was similar to WoW / EQ. The menu was taken out because of dupes that occurred with this new system.
2) "Inventory Stealing" - allowed a "thief" class to actually steal something from your inventory, it would usually give a msg "Soandso is snooping!" and if you looked at him, they'd die instantly and something like "GUARDS" would kill them.

I think we need to change this scenario, just running around and picking up peoples items isnt cool.

Thats where the Rules Council comes in

 

[Eldrylars]

I am sad to hear of your experience Cindy, and hope you are able to find your way to the good community here. Witchy is one of the best people to talk to and she even has a town that might be able to help you get your feet on the ground, as well as having wonderful company.

It's also not on this exact topic, but something else I would suggest would be to ask in trade chat for item values or ask player "guides", until you are familiar with the system. A golden key is worth about 50 loot crates or 300-500 souls depending on the day. So even in this scenario it would have been a major loss for you.

On that note, I have 3 or 4 dozen crates and would happily get you a few if you can use them.

Best of luck!

 

[JupiterRome]

Yeah you where getting ripped off anyway, that's why ancient raged so hard and was threatening munch and all his townies in O chat whatabitch right? Ripping off New Players and Raging D:

 

[Mistyckle]

Just wanted to say, I'm sorry for your experience cindy :/

 

[ben127127]

1. Ancient was being mean in the first place, trying to scam you.
2. You guys should've met there and then moved away from those guys till they were gone.

 

[Jonsoon]

Thats where the Rules Council comes in

While what happened to you sucked and a very low move on another player, it is unfortunately your fault in the end for not taking care to find somewhere private.

I do not believe the rules should change because some was not cautious of where they were making a drop trade.

Solution: add trade rooms to PvE and PvP spawn, maybe even in places like GYs and HGs.

 

[LordZelkova]

Yeah you where getting ripped off anyway, that's why ancient raged so hard and was threatening munch and all his townies in O chat whatabitch right? Ripping off New Players and Raging D:

Lol ancient doesn;t HAVE townies.

I'm the only active past "townie" he had (That didn't stab him in the back of leave )

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I am sorry i wasnt trying to hurt you, more of ancientteam who has hurt a lot in o chat, i did the same thing later that day but gave it back, for the fact that they have never showed unkindness to me, unlike him.

 

[CoolBeans279]

I am sorry i wasnt trying to hurt you, more of ancientteam who has hurt a lot in o chat, i did the same thing later that day but gave it back, for the fact that they have never showed unkindness to me, unlike him.

Last map i got into this guys spawn plot and he had every chest unlocked, i didn't take anything though because he never did anything to me.

On the other hand this map someone was being a dick and i saw them trading so i swiped it like swiper from dora the explorer

 

[Danda]

Two things we had in the past.

1) "Player-Trade" - right-click a player with an open hand to trade, it'd bring up a neat little GUI that would allow you to transfer items and basically was similar to WoW / EQ. The menu was taken out because of dupes that occurred with this new system.
2) "Inventory Stealing" - allowed a "thief" class to actually steal something from your inventory, it would usually give a msg "Soandso is snooping!" and if you looked at him, they'd die instantly and something like "GUARDS" would kill them.

I think we need to change this scenario, just running around and picking up peoples items isnt cool.

I'll look into constructing lockable trade rooms somewhere. To create a safe place for players to trade without worrying about 3rd party players coming in to thieve the trade goods.

 

[JupiterRome]

Last map i got into this guys spawn plot and he had every chest unlocked, i didn't take anything though because he never did anything to me.

On the other hand this map someone was being a dick and i saw them trading so i swiped it like swiper from dora the explorer

TBH Idk Why Ancient would try to get the sympathy card here, hes been harassing you ever since I got back from vaca XD

 

[LordZelkova]

TBH Idk Why Ancient would try to get the sympathy card here, hes been harassing you ever since I got back from vaca XD

Because he's himeself. It's who he is.
If you knew him like I do you would never question his actions (Not that they aren't stupid sometimes, but it's just the way he is)

 

[CoolBeans279]

TBH Idk Why Ancient would try to get the sympathy card here, hes been harassing you ever since I got back from vaca XD

lol hes been harassing me ever since i got back to hc in haven.

Not just from him harassing me all the time but the shit hes said in o chat and discusses with other people just goes to show you how fucking stupid some people are.

 

[Paul_Bakken]

First of all, stealing trades is really distasteful thing to do. Just because something is technically "legal" doesn't mean that it is a good idea.

Second, I have extra crates and I never use the things. If I happen to be on the server at the same time as you, @cindy_k , you can have them.

Finally, we should make dedicated trade rooms at each Spawn. If players have "use" privileges in the area, it can be as simple as letting them use a lever to lock a door. I also know how to make more complicated trading devices where players can see the items and approve the trade before having access to them. No plugins needed. @Kainzo, if you are interested in this, I'd be happy to help.