Suggestion Townships 3.0 Balance Changes

[MalaWolf]

After a long in-depth discussion with @Multitallented @Jrr5556 and myself. We have all agreed on significant balance changes that we would like you as the community to weigh in on. I'm also going to encourage a civilized response, and no personal attacks against anyone - just talk balance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Town Power (this one is still in discussion)

Completely redefined the notion of 'power' so that you are now unable to destroy a town, instead you are able to knock the regions offline for the remained of the day, when power levels reset. (Power is added daily even with this plugin.) This would allow really determined players to spend 3-4 hours slowly knocking the power down to noting, and then can safely raid the town without both its region and no-pvp protections. This is good because normal grief rules can apply, and the defending town will not be legally allowed to destroy the town nor it's building. (As it currently is grief is legal once you have brought a towns power is brought to zero and destroyed the council room under the guise of 'township war' and this is not a good direction for hero-craft to be heading imo) These changes would lower towns power and regeneration rates, but prevent towns from being destroyed entirely and have the council room a region 24/7 regardless of power (except for inactivity, that will still kill your town)

• Town power reduce to 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Town regeneration per day 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Power can only be lowered by siege cannons.

Given that a siege cannon from an outpost does 1 power every 6 minutes, and you can have 2 in your outpost, it will take 5 hours of direct firing to bring down the largest towns. Then this 'region being down' will only last for the day. It's a heavy investment that can be used to steal items from chests and disable town protections, and promotes high risk/reward game-play. And I just want to stress that again, you need a functioning outpost firing 2 cannons for 5 hours within the day, and use 100 TNT to have a chance at getting at an enemy town. (This would be amazing, and wouldn't be painful for the defenders to lose their town permanently)

It is also better for new players, because their towns cannot be destroyed anymore, and they will not lose the money invested in their towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arrow Turrets (I know this is a touchy subject, but I want to say that myself and Multi both agree on this #yay!)

• Arrow Damage reduced to 15% of total health.
• Arrows will now only fire if they have direct line of sight (no more shooting through walls and being used as alarms)
• Arrows Turrets can not be placed within 15 blocks of another arrow turret (prevents shooting ranges)
• The total number of Arrow Turrets for every region above tribe is increased by 2 (to cover the entire town)

I know that 'we as pvpers' hate them, but in my opinion this is as fair as it gets and I'm very happy with this. Arrow Turrets can now be used to cover the entire town and not as 'shooting rangers' that protect 1 or 2 houses with absolute security, to compensate damage is reduced on the turrets to a level where you can do very small fights underneath them. (Probably not, but it's not as hazardous as before.) And Finally, The sight detection is perfect, because we as raiders lose our "lets just wait till the arrows are empty strategy" but it also gives us the ability to sneak and pick up kills without the giant "hey the enemy is here arrow firing that gives everyone time to run to a safe-zone.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PVP Safe-Zones (Another happy agreement)

• PVP Safezone in the council room is not changing
• Safezones in houses are being removed, but can be enabled for 30 minutes at the cost of 100s and 10 redstone.

Helps to prevent you from being 100% secure, and encourages you to leave your houses and get to the safest areas of your town for free security. Prevents you running to the nearest house and knowing you are 100% secure, and while players can feel safe in their own homes, it will help lower the abundant amount of safezones in towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Township Poison (another agreement here)

• Poison damage increased to 30 damage every 2 seconds
• When Poison is activated there is an announcement giving the raiders a warning to evacuate.
• Poison is then permanently active to all raiders inside town regions for 30 minutes.
• Cost of it to scale dependent on how long it has been going. Cost at 250-500-750-1000-1250-1500 (capping here)
• Cost will 'cool down' by 1 set every 30 minutes, so if you let it run to 1250, in half an hour it will cost 1000. ect ect

This is good for the defenders, a real 'panic' button forcing raiders to play smart and either pick of kills and get out quickly, or get people outside town regions. However the biggest thing it encourages raiders to do is leave! This gives defenders chance to recuperate and restock defenses. However it is good because it also punishes town owners for spamming poison, and gives raiders some leeway in when they can attack, because all they need to do is come back in half an hour and it will cost the town owners double.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am posting this in suggestions so you can all put in your views before we move this on to balance.
Please keep this thread civil, as it's the first time we've had a real compromise.

Also @Kainzo - make this happen!

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Seems very fair for both parties being raiders and defenders. Good work

 

[malikdanab]

Further changes may be needed once actually tested, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[agedbear]

I agree with all of this save 1 point. Making it so that the council room is the ONLY safe zone is a detriment to larger towns because building and living on the outskirts of town will essentially make you a permanent target with nowhere to go. I would like to see 1 or 2 other other options available (church and/or hospital) that can be spaced out. This gives the people that option of where to run to if they aren't anywhere near the town hall. There is an element of lore to it as well with churches offering sanctuary and hospitals offering aide and respite to those in need. Other than that I like everything @MalaWolf has posted here!

 

[Irishman81]

I still think the poison should be able to be avoided/canceled in some way. Giving towns a way to pretty much guarentee Raiders leaving seems a little too much. I feel like once you get out of combat or leave the regions and come back the poison should go away. Since the above gives the advantage to the raiders, maybe make it last longer or do a little more damage.

 

[MCderpy12]

I still think the poison should be able to be avoided/canceled in some way. Giving towns a way to pretty much guarentee Raiders leaving seems a little too much. I feel like once you get out of combat or leave the regions and come back the poison should go away. Since the above gives the advantage to the raiders, maybe make it last longer or do a little more damage.

I feel the town 'panic' effect should have 3 tiers, poison being the highest, will put my prices ect below.

Tier 1 - 100 soul base price - applies slowness I to all none townies (lasts 30 mins and same 100-200-500 ect )
Tier 2 - 200 soul base price - appkies slowness I and nausea. idk abotu nausea but some other annoying debuff
Tier 3 - Poison as stated in thread


Just my basic idea I had after reading this

 

[CoolBeans279]

After a long in-depth discussion with @Multitallented @Jrr5556 and myself. We have all agreed on significant balance changes that we would like you as the community to weigh in on. I'm also going to encourage a civilized response, and no personal attacks against anyone - just talk balance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Town Power (this one is still in discussion)

Completely redefined the notion of 'power' so that you are now unable to destroy a town, instead you are able to knock the regions offline for the remained of the day, when power levels reset. (Power is added daily even with this plugin.) This would allow really determined players to spend 3-4 hours slowly knocking the power down to noting, and then can safely raid the town without both its region and no-pvp protections. This is good because normal grief rules can apply, and the defending town will not be legally allowed to destroy the town nor it's building. (As it currently is grief is legal once you have brought a towns power is brought to zero and destroyed the council room under the guise of 'township war' and this is not a good direction for hero-craft to be heading imo) These changes would lower towns power and regeneration rates, but prevent towns from being destroyed entirely and have the council room a region 24/7 regardless of power (except for inactivity, that will still kill your town)

• Town power reduce to 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Town regeneration per day 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Power can only be lowered by siege cannons.

Given that a siege cannon from an outpost does 1 power every 6 minutes, and you can have 2 in your outpost, it will take 5 hours of direct firing to bring down the largest towns. Then this 'region being down' will only last for the day. It's a heavy investment that can be used to steal items from chests and disable town protections, and promotes high risk/reward game-play. And I just want to stress that again, you need a functioning outpost firing 2 cannons for 5 hours within the day, and use 100 TNT to have a chance at getting at an enemy town. (This would be amazing, and wouldn't be painful for the defenders to lose their town permanently)

It is also better for new players, because their towns cannot be destroyed anymore, and they will not lose the money invested in their towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arrow Turrets (I know this is a touchy subject, but I want to say that myself and Multi both agree on this #yay!)

• Arrow Damage reduced to 15% of total health.
• Arrows will now only fire if they have direct line of sight (no more shooting through walls and being used as alarms)
• Arrows Turrets can not be placed within 15 blocks of another arrow turret (prevents shooting ranges)
• The total number of Arrow Turrets for every region above tribe is increased by 2 (to cover the entire town)

I know that 'we as pvpers' hate them, but in my opinion this is as fair as it gets and I'm very happy with this. Arrow Turrets can now be used to cover the entire town and not as 'shooting rangers' that protect 1 or 2 houses with absolute security, to compensate damage is reduced on the turrets to a level where you can do very small fights underneath them. (Probably not, but it's not as hazardous as before.) And Finally, The sight detection is perfect, because we as raiders lose our "lets just wait till the arrows are empty strategy" but it also gives us the ability to sneak and pick up kills without the giant "hey the enemy is here arrow firing that gives everyone time to run to a safe-zone.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PVP Safe-Zones (Another happy agreement)

• PVP Safezone in the council room is not changing
• Safezones in houses are being removed, but can be enabled for 30 minutes at the cost of 100s and 10 redstone.

Helps to prevent you from being 100% secure, and encourages you to leave your houses and get to the safest areas of your town for free security. Prevents you running to the nearest house and knowing you are 100% secure, and while players can feel safe in their own homes, it will help lower the abundant amount of safezones in towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Township Poison (another agreement here)

• Poison damage increased to 30 damage every 2 seconds
• When Poison is activated there is an announcement giving the raiders a warning to evacuate.
• Poison is then permanently active to all raiders inside town regions for 30 minutes.
• Cost of it to scale dependent on how long it has been going. Cost at 250-500-750-1000-1250-1500 (capping here)
• Cost will 'cool down' by 1 set every 30 minutes, so if you let it run to 1250, in half an hour it will cost 1000. ect ect

This is good for the defenders, a real 'panic' button forcing raiders to play smart and either pick of kills and get out quickly, or get people outside town regions. However the biggest thing it encourages raiders to do is leave! This gives defenders chance to recuperate and restock defenses. However it is good because it also punishes town owners for spamming poison, and gives raiders some leeway in when they can attack, because all they need to do is come back in half an hour and it will cost the town owners double.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am posting this in suggestions so you can all put in your views before we move this on to balance.
Please keep this thread civil, as it's the first time we've had a real compromise.

Also @Kainzo - make this happen!

Yeah i totally wasn't there it was just multi mala and jrr.

 

[devotedworker]

After a long in-depth discussion with @Multitallented @Jrr5556 and myself. We have all agreed on significant balance changes that we would like you as the community to weigh in on. I'm also going to encourage a civilized response, and no personal attacks against anyone - just talk balance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Town Power (this one is still in discussion)

Completely redefined the notion of 'power' so that you are now unable to destroy a town, instead you are able to knock the regions offline for the remained of the day, when power levels reset. (Power is added daily even with this plugin.) This would allow really determined players to spend 3-4 hours slowly knocking the power down to noting, and then can safely raid the town without both its region and no-pvp protections. This is good because normal grief rules can apply, and the defending town will not be legally allowed to destroy the town nor it's building. (As it currently is grief is legal once you have brought a towns power is brought to zero and destroyed the council room under the guise of 'township war' and this is not a good direction for hero-craft to be heading imo) These changes would lower towns power and regeneration rates, but prevent towns from being destroyed entirely and have the council room a region 24/7 regardless of power (except for inactivity, that will still kill your town)

• Town power reduce to 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Town regeneration per day 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 - 100 - 100 (depending on your city size)
• Power can only be lowered by siege cannons.

Given that a siege cannon from an outpost does 1 power every 6 minutes, and you can have 2 in your outpost, it will take 5 hours of direct firing to bring down the largest towns. Then this 'region being down' will only last for the day. It's a heavy investment that can be used to steal items from chests and disable town protections, and promotes high risk/reward game-play. And I just want to stress that again, you need a functioning outpost firing 2 cannons for 5 hours within the day, and use 100 TNT to have a chance at getting at an enemy town. (This would be amazing, and wouldn't be painful for the defenders to lose their town permanently)

It is also better for new players, because their towns cannot be destroyed anymore, and they will not lose the money invested in their towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arrow Turrets (I know this is a touchy subject, but I want to say that myself and Multi both agree on this #yay!)

• Arrow Damage reduced to 15% of total health.
• Arrows will now only fire if they have direct line of sight (no more shooting through walls and being used as alarms)
• Arrows Turrets can not be placed within 15 blocks of another arrow turret (prevents shooting ranges)
• The total number of Arrow Turrets for every region above tribe is increased by 2 (to cover the entire town)

I know that 'we as pvpers' hate them, but in my opinion this is as fair as it gets and I'm very happy with this. Arrow Turrets can now be used to cover the entire town and not as 'shooting rangers' that protect 1 or 2 houses with absolute security, to compensate damage is reduced on the turrets to a level where you can do very small fights underneath them. (Probably not, but it's not as hazardous as before.) And Finally, The sight detection is perfect, because we as raiders lose our "lets just wait till the arrows are empty strategy" but it also gives us the ability to sneak and pick up kills without the giant "hey the enemy is here arrow firing that gives everyone time to run to a safe-zone.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PVP Safe-Zones (Another happy agreement)

• PVP Safezone in the council room is not changing
• Safezones in houses are being removed, but can be enabled for 30 minutes at the cost of 100s and 10 redstone.

Helps to prevent you from being 100% secure, and encourages you to leave your houses and get to the safest areas of your town for free security. Prevents you running to the nearest house and knowing you are 100% secure, and while players can feel safe in their own homes, it will help lower the abundant amount of safezones in towns.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Township Poison (another agreement here)

• Poison damage increased to 30 damage every 2 seconds
• When Poison is activated there is an announcement giving the raiders a warning to evacuate.
• Poison is then permanently active to all raiders inside town regions for 30 minutes.
• Cost of it to scale dependent on how long it has been going. Cost at 250-500-750-1000-1250-1500 (capping here)
• Cost will 'cool down' by 1 set every 30 minutes, so if you let it run to 1250, in half an hour it will cost 1000. ect ect

This is good for the defenders, a real 'panic' button forcing raiders to play smart and either pick of kills and get out quickly, or get people outside town regions. However the biggest thing it encourages raiders to do is leave! This gives defenders chance to recuperate and restock defenses. However it is good because it also punishes town owners for spamming poison, and gives raiders some leeway in when they can attack, because all they need to do is come back in half an hour and it will cost the town owners double.
​

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am posting this in suggestions so you can all put in your views before we move this on to balance.
Please keep this thread civil, as it's the first time we've had a real compromise.

Also @Kainzo - make this happen!

The ONLY thing I don't like is how easy it seems to bring a town down. Theoretically I could get on at 1AM and spend 1 Hour * Town Size and before the town even noticed, I could grief it down to nothing and steal their life savings. It makes to too easy... people need a chance to get online and actually fight back, or else during an obscure hour of the day I could bring any town to its knees. Maybe a better way to do it is have the power restart weekly ( And scale it up accordingly ), so people have a chance to fight back, or at least it would take the raider a day time to take it down. @MalaWolf?
Also I must add that Greifing is illegal for every situation... there should NEVER be an exception...
I <3 Everything else though

 

[MalaWolf]

My phrasing isn't very good. From my suggestion on town power, it would take 5 hours for the larger towns (at 200 power) and 2.5 hours for the smallest one, a tribe. While yes the region would be offline normal grief rules would still apply. Meaning you can only break blocks to get into houses and you must replace. (Unlike it is now, where destroying a town gives you free rein over the town.)

 

[devotedworker]

My phrasing isn't very good. From my suggestion on town power, it would take 5 hours for the larger towns (at 200 power) and 2.5 hours for the smallest one, a tribe. While yes the region would be offline normal grief rules would still apply. Meaning you can only break blocks to get into houses and you must replace. (Unlike it is now, where destroying a town gives you free rein over the town.)

I am still very concerned how anyone can take down a town in the middle of the night. Not everyone is on 24/7 and if it only takes 5 hours to take down a decent town ( Which is Shorter than I am in school ) then I could loose my town while I'm in school or sleeping. If this system is implemented, you can count that my stuff will always be within another region or LWC'ed. This system is simply too easy without players to defend. Maybe we should make it so that TNT Cannons bring the town all the way down to 1 Power, which requires that the raiders kill at least one person to kill a town. This would prevent OFFLINE town killings

 

[Multitallented]

This is going to require a bit of coding. I still disagree on the town destruction part, but I have a good reason for that which I will explain in a separate thread.

 

[MalaWolf]

I am still very concerned how anyone can take down a town in the middle of the night. Not everyone is on 24/7 and if it only takes 5 hours to take down a decent town ( Which is Shorter than I am in school ) then I could loose my town while I'm in school or sleeping. If this system is implemented, you can count that my stuff will always be within another region or LWC'ed. This system is simply too easy without players to defend. Maybe we should make it so that TNT Cannons bring the town all the way down to 1 Power, which requires that the raiders kill at least one person to kill a town. This would prevent OFFLINE town killings

Good Idea

 

[Trazil]

just set Saturday as a day towns can be destroyed so everyone knows they risk their town if they are not on, and towns can't destroyed any other day.

I still hate the huge advantages given to defenders, and will most likely never raid a town with any actual decent pvper because of them.
In my opinion NOTHING should be a safezone, at all.

 

[malikdanab]

just set Saturday as a day towns can be destroyed so everyone knows they risk their town if they are not on, and towns can't destroyed any other day.

I still hate the huge advantages given to defenders, and will most likely never raid a town with any actual decent pvper because of them.
In my opinion NOTHING should be a safezone, at all.

Even graveyards and spawn?

 

[MalaWolf]

just set Saturday as a day towns can be destroyed so everyone knows they risk their town if they are not on, and towns can't destroyed any other day.

I still hate the huge advantages given to defenders, and will most likely never raid a town with any actual decent pvper because of them.
In my opinion NOTHING should be a safezone, at all.

@Multitallented - would this be possible? (I still want to see your other post, but just as a coder)

 

[MCderpy12]

just set Saturday as a day towns can be destroyed so everyone knows they risk their town if they are not on, and towns can't destroyed any other day.

I still hate the huge advantages given to defenders, and will most likely never raid a town with any actual decent pvper because of them.
In my opinion NOTHING should be a safezone, at all.

Yeh but that would suk for me, and other European based people as most of the server population plays after we sleep, so we will have no chance to stop this from happening.
I am sure there must be a more viable solution.

However a 'purge' on pve where pvp is enabled for a weekend will make me happy
But that is off topic

~MC

 

[Multitallented]

@Multitallented - would this be possible? (I still want to see your other post, but just as a coder)

just about anything is possible in time

 

[Trazil]

Even graveyards and spawn?

woops meant to say in towns

Yeh but that would suk for me, and other European based people as most of the server population plays after we sleep, so we will have no chance to stop this from happening.
I am sure there must be a more viable solution.

However a 'purge' on pve where pvp is enabled for a weekend will make me happy
But that is off topic

~MC

How would that suck for Europeans? it is a set time so you know when to be on, and not just any time someone feels like destroying your town...
It wouldn't hurt you at all but it would actually help.

 

[JupiterRome]

I still disagree that you can just trap someone in your town and poison kill them

@Kainzo this hurt engineer also now due to not needing it to defend without PvP, maybe take a look at this class?

 

[Multitallented]

I got arrowturret line of sight working today.

My party of 5 also got ganked/camped in Flavia by irish and coolbeans. We all quit shortly afterwards (including irish and coolbeans). meh. I don't like playing on this server. This isn't working out