Township Requirements.

[Joka10]

The only way I can really see the current emerald/diamond requirements working out is if more ways to get them are added (i.e. adding them as quest rewards or something similar). Via just mining (with everyone else mining for them too), getting the required amounts beyond Hamlet is really difficult...

 

[Perineurium]

So, implementing the grind forever or get out plan then?

 

[Joka10]

So, implementing the grind forever or get out plan then?

This is pretty much what it is... As opposed to the mob grinding in MA of last map, this map is getting mining grinding, it seems.

 

[Rumblestikk]

So I've come to throw my opinions on this matter.

As a mayor of a township that not only has its Hamlet regions but plans to go all the way to CAPITAL + Bring up two other TOWNS, I believe some of the prices are near impossible to achieve.

I'm not going to talk about Hamlet prices, mainly because Hamlet is by far the easyest to achieve, I was able to rally up 100 Iron blocks in a day.

Currently as of 9/15/12 doing /town cost MEDIUM results in the following.

"Showing costs for MEDIUM Town.

• 15000 Coins
• 500 Iron Blocks
• 10000 Wooden Plank
• 5000 Log
• 100 Pumpkin
• 300 Emerald Block
• 200 Diamond block
• 100 Clay Brick
• 10000 Stone"

So heres a couple things with this. 15000 coins was never hard to come by, I see why you Kain would want a block requirement for towns. However, the amount of blocks that are Required just to achieve TOWN, is a little out of hand.

As stated earlier in this thread, 300 Emerald Blocks equals out to 2700 emeralds. Unless you are able to get your hands on a villager, this feat is nearly impossible. This pits towns to camp villagers if they are out in the wild, and claim towns around villages... unless they can some how be given to Hamlets, OR kept in spawn for EVERYONE to have access to, and not be killed by anything.

While Emerald Blocks are the highest requirement on the list, by far the DIAMOND blocks will be the hardest to get. Even with Warshard being reset, this is about 1800 diamonds, a resource that everyone uses.

We all use Diamonds, from picks, to shovels to Axes and Armor. Specced crafted to specced combat class, you probably use SOMETHING made of diamond. Thus this gives towns a hardship of getting members to donate diamonds to the TB. I even had the idea, why not just BUY them from townies for a set price, and then turn them into Blocks and put them in? With the change to the DHX, while it was made in good reason, ANYONE can sell their gold to the DHX for 9 coins. thus people dont need the town to make profits.

Old Scheme Worked like; Townies mined ---> Sold to town for 8 to 8.5c ---> town sold to DHX for 9c --> Money could get reused for upgrades to the town and such.

New Scheme Works like; Townies Mine --> sell to DHX for 9c --> Keep their profits.

This cuts towns out from the middle, thus making towns go broke for coins, and therefore they cant buy the extra mats from their members either. While I have had some help in gathering gold from my townmates because they wanted regions, now I am constantly in a battle of "Sell to the town, sell to the town! It helps us and you too!" Most of the money for my town has come from me mining (This is how I hit 55 Enchanter so fast, determination) with small donations from other people, but all that has basically stopped now that we have hamlet and they can sell to the DHX themselves.

It seems towns have been thrown into a Catch 22. We can rather work our asses off, and TRY to achieve these conditions for the upgrade, which people till burn out from the mining and gathering before they see the rewards because of the high values, or we just go broke because we've been cut from the economy equation all together.

This has been bothering me for a few days now, I've kept quiet about it mainly because I know everything is still subject to change, but these numbers are absurd.

We already have a hard cap for towns Kain, do we really need absurd prices as well?

 

[Joka10]

snip

This is essentially what I tried to say in my post on the last page, except worded much better... I get that people begged for less towns and for them to be harder to get, and I understand why, but this isn't the right direction. People complained last map about how everyone had to grind in MA for hours on end just to be evenly leveled with others. MA is gone, but now there's a new grindfest in mining, and it's maybe even less enjoyable. Also, you waste so much stuff you could use for other things I definitely think all the requirements need to be heavily rethought.

 

[j2gay]

I agree with most of what you said here @Rumblestikk. I do think that the loss of gold conversions can be offset by raising taxes. The biggest issue I see with diamond blocks being used for town upgrades is that it takes materials out of the world that are already rare. Also as you said while some of the dedicated and veteran members will lend a hand most resident give minimal help, with these upgrade cost and the limitted life span of your average mc map mayors will be forced to make a choice: upgrade town and keep grinding toward capital, or actually build a nice town.

 

[Rumblestikk]

This is essentially what I tried to say in my post on the last page, except worded much better... I get that people begged for less towns and for them to be harder to get, and I understand why, but this isn't the right direction. People complained last map about how everyone had to grind in MA for hours on end just to be evenly leveled with others. MA is gone, but now there's a new grindfest in mining, and it's maybe even less enjoyable. Also, you waste so much stuff you could use for other things I definitely think all the requirements need to be heavily rethought.

Off-topic here, dont get me started with the whole Mob thing... -_- I found mastering Enchanter was easier then Mastering my combat spec -_-

 

[malmenca]

I don't think so. It's free coinage - if they want the protection / pride of being in a town, they'll have to pay dues.

Pay their dues... Rofl. Voting is not paying their dues. A player should truly be voting because they like a server, not because they can pay their taxes with it. Frankly, money shouldn't be given for voting, voting should be done because the players want to promote a server they like, it shouldn't be incentivized.

 

[Joka10]

Voting for money is kind of a double-edged sword. On one side, it encourages players who like the server, but are too lazy to vote, to actually vote. I was an administrator on a fairly big server (though it died kinda fast because we didn't have the tech support to keep up with 1.8/1.0), and we decided that we would provide voting links, but wouldn't provide an incentive or make players vote. Even though we had many regular players, not many people voted at all. People are lazy like that. On the other side, it encourages players to vote even before they join the server (on the app: Have you voted?), or to vote even if they don't like it. It therefore isn't neccessarily a true reflection of their views. But, in order for a server to get any votes, I think an incentive is the right route to take.

As far as expecting voting to be the primary way of paying taxes, though... that's just wrong, I think, because it isn't just an incentive, but almost a requirement. There isn't really a way to get money now other than by selling goods at spawn, and once you lose warp, that's quite difficult. If mobs still dropped coins instead of nuggets, the limit would be much easier to meet, as you could collect small amounts of money fairly quickly and save your gold and trips to spawn for big purchases. All my money last map was through killing mobs, basically. If you were to bring back coin drops to mobs, it would be a good way to pay taxes. Players would still have to be pretty active to kill enough mobs to get the required amount of coins. However, they wouldn't have to go through all the crap of collecting gold nuggets (which seem to drop much more rarely than coins), crafting them into ingots/blocks (though I can't imagine getting a block just off mobhunting...), and taking them on the perilous journey to spawn. Even active players might not be able or willing to do that...

 

[rfgordan]

I think some of the requirements should be lowered slightly, but they are in no way impossible to achieve. In a town of, say 45 players, 40 diamonds each would reach the 200 block requirement. Granted that would be a large and well-organized town, but that's what's required to advance. I don't envision emeralds as a major problem as long as villagers still exist on the map.

 

[Joka10]

I think some of the requirements should be lowered slightly, but they are in no way impossible to achieve. In a town of, say 45 players, 40 diamonds each would reach the 200 block requirement. Granted that would be a large and well-organized town, but that's what's required to advance. I don't envision emeralds as a major problem as long as villagers still exist on the map.

The thing is, every town on the map would be trying to get these things at once, so the world would quickly become mined out and villagers would be extremely scarce. This would make it difficult for multiple groups to get the required resources, let alone one.

 

[alexhoff1]

The thing is, every town on the map would be trying to get these things at once, so the world would quickly become mined out and villagers would be extremely scarce. This would make it difficult for multiple groups to get the required resources, let alone one.

adding to your point, theres like no villagers left... I should know..
unless some towns be hidin' these villagers.

 

[Joka10]

adding to your point, theres like no villagers left... I should know..
unless some towns be hidin' these villagers.

If there were a way to create villager eggs (farmer/alchemist or something), the emerald requirements would be alright (as long as the recipe wasn't too expensive).

 

[Rumblestikk]

So to rehash for people in a TL;DR.

Main points.

• Emerald Values would be okay IF villagers are easier to come by.
• Diamond Values are crazy - We all use diamonds for other things as well.
• The new gold trade has cut towns from the equation - We now rely on Mayors to mine and deposit their funds completely, or generous players, as we cannot buy from our townies at 8c or 8.5c to resell for a profit.
• Some people wish to have coins back to mobs instead of nuggets - this would help they pay for taxes without voting - and cut down on the amount of trips to spawn people HAVE to make, which can be long and tedious, especially with the amount of jungle bios on the map -_- (Alternatively, bring in Herogates...)
• The Amount of Stone/Wooden Planks/Logs are doable, but thats a huge grind... Something I though HC was trying to step away from.

I understand that the requirements are that not only ONE person should be working on it, but the whole town, but with some of the requirements are their standard, and with what is required, people are too reluctant to hand over some things without making a profit.


That's about it, I'm going to be keeping an eye here for responses and the community's thoughts on this... Herocraft was the first server I ever played on, the only one, been here all my Minecraft time, I wish to help morph it into something enjoyable past what we have ever had before... Feedback is the key.

 

[leftovers5]

The block idea is exceptionally annoying. The time I could spend building is harshly cut because I'm required to donate blocks (i.e. logs, planks, stone) that I use to BUILD with to a town bank that absorbs them. This means I have to get more materials than I should have to, which is especially tedious and frustrating.

 

[Dsawemd]

perhaps we could be allowed to keep the 10,000 stone? more of a proof that one is ready to build than a cost to start building.

 

[j2gay]

The other issue with the blocks is that when you are grinding trying to collect it fast you will be more likely to rape the landscape.

 

[leftovers5]

The other issue with the blocks is that when you are grinding trying to collect it fast you will be more likely to rape the landscape.

Deforestation
@MajorasMask

 

[MajorasMask]

The other issue with the blocks is that when you are grinding trying to collect it fast you will be more likely to rape the landscape.

So true...

 

[Symbolite]

Snip.

Yeah we definitely need to bring back DHX bankers or ensure that somehow only mayors/sic's can sell to DHX chest shops. Town's need to make some profit somewhere. Cannot rely on generous citizens to donate, those are a rare occurrence.