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Suggestion [Township] New Townships Code for Discussion

WitchOnaRampage

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Location
Australia
@Multitallented I'm very excited about this direction but I'm struggling for understanding somewhat. I'm going to ask some questions that might be pretty naive, but I need to get this basic understanding sorted before I can move forward to asking more intelligent questions. :D
  • Kingdoms: I'm just checking that these will now be off the agenda, is this the case? The current concept of Kingdoms is 3 or 4 towns in close proximity ie that can be surrounded by a ring of no more than 50 pylons that are no more than 100 blocks apart each. This gave players a reason to search for alliances between towns or an opportunity for a larger group of players to align across several bases. However the last few maps have had no more than 2 kingdoms, or 1, or none, which is pretty unbalanced, and they're sure as heck troublesome to manage! So I'm fine with them going, I just want to be really clear that this is what's happening.
  • Town shapes: What shape are the town/super-regions? Do they cover only the sub-regions, or do the sub-regions need to be located within a certain area? What happens to the regioning in the space between sub-regions?
  • Town sizes: From your Sub-regions thread, the sizes currently allocated for towns are considerably smaller than at present. For example, you've proposed 36x36 for Hamlet when the current size is 150x150, the size you are proposing for Metropolis.
    1. I don't see a town hall and and 5 homes fitting into 36x36 blocks.
    2. It would certainly be good to see much greater differences in size between the towns than we have currently. The current Hamlet size is so big there's little incentive for upgrading, so having the smallest towns be much smaller than at present would be great with bigger steps between sizes. But the town sizes do need to be a little larger than is currently proposed.
  • Personal regions: I'm understanding that shacks will replace personal regions? I applaud this! Bringing player-size regions into the same management structure as towns is a definite plus. However I see you are proposing just one shack per player, and currently higher level donors are granted 2 or 3 personal residences. @Kainzo will need to review this impact on donor benefits. I would also like to see spawn plots brought under the same management structure, and the impact of spawn plots on towns be taken into consideration. For example, I'd like to see the larger spawn plots only being available to the larger towns and so on, and that spawn plots for individuals only be large enough to keep maybe 4 chests secure.
  • Distance between super-regions: Currently there must be at least 300 blocks between town centers to prevent towns overlapping when they upgrade in size. How will distance between super-regions be managed? Is the Town Hall the center of the town region, or not necessarily?
  • Moving townships: Will a township be required to stay where it is initially created, or is there potential for towns to relocate if, for example, they lose all their perms or decide to abandon them to start again elsewhere? (Actually, I have visions of Howl's Moving Castle here :D with towns wandering about across the map.)
  • Destruction by TNT: Do I understand correctly that TNT regeneration will be turned off again? (It was only recently introduced.) How about the situation where a town is struggling for whatever reason and it loses power and gets blasted to smithereens and that's enough for those townsfolk to throw in the towel.
    1. Can this be avoided? and
    2. How can we prevent the map from being littered by abandoned town ruins?
  • Mayor/Successor perms and titles: Will these be automatically allocated by the code when a township is created? Also, following on from this other thread, might it be possible for the Mayor and SiC to be able to investigate incidences of possible town theft by checking logs on chests, please? How will succession and/or sale of a town be conducted.
  • Power: Various things reduce power, but what increases it? From your Sub-region thread, I see that a Soul Harvester "consumes items and money to create power hourly". How else is power created? Is there any connection between power generation and, for example, player activity? Also what sorts of amounts of power are we talking about getting destroyed and created in your "average" day?
  • Activity requirements: Will there be checks on when players last logged in to ensure a certain number of active players in the last fortnight, etc?
  • Town decay "via timestamps or some other method" (quote from Kainzo): Does this refer to player activity?
  • Taxes: May I have more info on how these will work, please?
  • Chat channels per super-region: Will these be auto-allocated without the need to petition staff? (If so, yay!)
  • PvE: I liked the diagram on how Strongholds might be focused differently for PvP and PvE. I'm looking forward to what else will be proposed for PvE, but I understand the need to get PvP sorted first.
 

agedbear

A frightening Cactus!
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Location
Georgia, United States
If anyone is interested a good grasp for town size would be Drakenvale from Haven. Not only was it upgraded to medium and we still spilled out of regions but we had a great looking town astheticly. I'm not sure if @Kainzo has a copy of it right before the map wipe but I'm pretty sure we can get a copy of it. It may be good to view from a players perspective to determine sub region sizes as well as the master region.

Our town had a massive keep, few inns, harbor with ships, court house was in the works, slums, smithy, baker, alchemist, enchanter, church, military barracks was started, etc

Either @barbas0l, @savathaflava, or @JORIZQUI could give more details I'm sure.
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
On the pvp side of these sings, It would be cool if kingdoms get some changes, maybe half the proceeds from each town in the kingdom go to the capital ? Have making a kingdom be work it, (not sure if you or solely working on towns) but if you arent would love to see having a towns more rewarding, maybe one town in the kingdom can be solely focused on military and all the barracks will be built there and that being the military city/town barracks cost lest etc
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
@WitchOnaRampage

Kingdoms:
I don't know what's happening with them. There's no reason that they can't be in, but as you said they can be troublesome. The option to include higher town tiers was suggested as a replacement. The new Townships code does not allow for kingdoms, but it can be programmed.

Town Shapes: All towns and structures are squares. The reason for this is that it is much faster for the server that way. Towns will have their own protections against building and breaking as well as other common things. Currently TNT will not destroy things in town, but will instead decrease the power of a town by 1 per explosion. When the power or money of a town reaches zero, the town will lose it's protections. Structures have their own separate protections depending on what the regions are. All structures can (at least eventually) be blown up with TNT. Check out the New SubRegion suggestion thread for details.

Town Sizes: Needs balancing and yes they are probably a bit small currently. The reason I started small was to force town owners to make choices and take land management seriously.

Personal Regions: I was unaware of the donor benefits. I don't really use my benefits as that was not the reason I donated to the server :) Shelters (shacks are the smallest houses you can build in towns) could easily be made to allow donators to build 2 or 3. The region limit per person is permission based and is easily integrated with these things. As for spawn plots, I see those as a completely different animal. Spawn plots are often custom sizes and are much better suited to WorldGuard. Towns won't be impacted too much by spawn plots because they are very different things. Towns are no longer a place to store items, but also a place to farm items/money, build power, and wage war. I expect people will use spawn plots for valuable items and chestshops while living with the majority of their items in town. Expect to see people spending a majority of their time working in or around towns.

Distance Between Towns: It would be wise to make the Townhall near the center, but it can be anywhere honestly. Currently, there is no distance checking between towns, but towns can't overlap. If a town encroaches on another, then they can expand in the other direction or resolve their differences with TNT.

Moving Townships: There is actually a Sky biome that I plan on having special structures for. Towns do not move. Moving all of those regions would be a huge pain I'm sure. You can always abandon a town and start again elsewhere (especially since players can do this on their own without staff). I personally love town ruins. Usually they are littered with TNT craters and tell a cool story about the players and the battles that went on there. You might even find some structures that are still working with treasure hidden inside. I've even seen people rebuild others' abandoned towns.

Destruction By TNT: Town ruins have never been a problem as far as filling up the map in my experience. My design looks to make building comparable to war. I like to give towns a nice defender's advantage because (as you say) they do live there. I have seen people lose towns and get demoralized, but generally they understand what they did wrong. Usually these players will come back (because where else are you going to get this?) and often try again. Destroying a town requires building an Outpost nearby and sieging it with Soul Cannons which can take days. A siege will be a big investment that must be defended. You could use normal TNT cannons, but that would be much more inefficient and unreliable. It could be that Soul Cannons are the only way to reduce power without declaring war and killing them.

Mayor Succession and Perms: The permission system could be getting a change, but currently there are owners and members of every town or structure. There must always be an owner. Also other permissions can be granted like tax exemption, recruiting, etc. Chest logs are a different plugin, and I personally am against it. Default structure permissions are going to be very sufficient and town theft will be uncommon. Generally town theft in my experience was a result of laziness or trusted traitors.

Power: Towns have built in power generation daily. They also have a max power. A Soul Cannon can rip through 240 to 480 power daily depending on the upgrades. Do not let enemies siege your town for multiple days. Houses on the other hand will only consume 1 to 3 power per day. Server shops can consume as much as 12 per day. Towns will soon be vulnerable or will have to cut back on production unless they use Soul Harvesters and Soul Prisons. The rate and capacity of these has yet to go through balance.

Activity Requirements: Only shelters will have direct activity checks. Towns use other mechanics to enforce activity. For one, server taxes will force owners to raise money. Due to scarcity of protected land, owners have to choose between production and housing. If they put too much invested into production to offset inactivity, then they can't upgrade to the next level. Also, having less active players makes the town more vulnerable to war. Sure the town will have more power on hand, but they won't have the bodies.

Town Decay: Takes the form of server taxes and normal player activity. If a town stops raising money for taxes, then they will eventually run out and lose protections.

Taxes: Server taxes are determined based on town tier and are taken directly out of the town bank. Towns can set their own taxes on members to help offset this cost. Taxes are collected daily.

Chat Channels: Yes, the current code has it's own chat channels, but they use a different set of titles which can be bestowed by the town owners.

PvE: PvE will be more focused on economy, land management, trade, and player management. I hope to see a lot more biome specific regions with trade routes, cost-management, and real estate. My goal is to get PvE towns to compete with each other for members by advertising fancy houses for sale in prime locations.
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
If anyone is interested a good grasp for town size would be Drakenvale from Haven. Not only was it upgraded to medium and we still spilled out of regions but we had a great looking town astheticly. I'm not sure if @Kainzo has a copy of it right before the map wipe but I'm pretty sure we can get a copy of it. It may be good to view from a players perspective to determine sub region sizes as well as the master region.

Our town had a massive keep, few inns, harbor with ships, court house was in the works, slums, smithy, baker, alchemist, enchanter, church, military barracks was started, etc

Either @barbas0l, @savathaflava, or @JORIZQUI could give more details I'm sure.
Thanks for the feedback. Town size is going to need a lot of balance I think... Also it might be cool to use different fluff buildings for power generation rather than Soul Harvesters. It would make it so that power generation would need a variety of items which is a very good thing. Thanks for the ideas!
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
On the pvp side of these sings, It would be cool if kingdoms get some changes, maybe half the proceeds from each town in the kingdom go to the capital ? Have making a kingdom be work it, (not sure if you or solely working on towns) but if you arent would love to see having a towns more rewarding, maybe one town in the kingdom can be solely focused on military and all the barracks will be built there and that being the military city/town barracks cost lest etc
I'm definitely interested in having different types of towns being focused more on military or production, etc. For now I'm just using a base that can be expanded on. For example instead of having so many houses, a military town can use a barracks that has more compact housing. This would allow for more land to be used in power generation or production.
 

Jasquan

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Location
Denmark
Hmm, would it be possible for HS to include guilds somehow? I've always thought guilds needed some love, and if you're going to rework the Towns system, maybe the Guild system... (is there even a system?) ...could get some love too? I'd love to get guild halls with regions and stuff.
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Hmm, would it be possible for HS to include guilds somehow? I've always thought guilds needed some love, and if you're going to rework the Towns system, maybe the Guild system... (is there even a system?) ...could get some love too? I'd love to get guild halls with regions and stuff.
Is this what you're talking about? http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/herocastes/

We have no plans currently to change the guild system. We could however make Guild Halls a structures or separate towns. What would a Guild Hall be and what structures would it have?
 

agedbear

A frightening Cactus!
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Location
Georgia, United States
I think guild halls as separate towns would be cool have them built by the architects though, the only non player built towns. Have a mod or guide run the towns
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
The public has been asking me hehe when is this going on public test?

HeroCastes is a long way from being anywhere. I started that plugin twice, but I never finished it. I'm not even sure that it's something we will do on herocraft. The new Townships will be on test very shortly. Hopefully sometime this week-end
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
@Ruger392 can you explain why the face palm?
well for one people would start trying to be a guide or mod on the soul purpose of running a guild and limiting a big part of the game (running guild halls) to only a guide and mod is really silly, some people might not want to become a mod or guide but would love to run a guild :p
 

agedbear

A frightening Cactus!
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Location
Georgia, United States
well for one people would start trying to be a guide or mod on the soul purpose of running a guild and limiting a big part of the game (running guild halls) to only a guide and mod is really silly, some people might not want to become a mod or guide but would love to run a guild :p
Fair enough, however a guild should have some sort of structure or chain of leadership and shouldn't be some fresh to server noob. For example Dsawemed would make a great Farm guild leader where as I would make a piss poor one since I know very little about farming on this server. That was the only reason I mentioned making some sort of server mod/guide a guild leader
 

Xhazed

Portal
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Location
Miami FL
Fair enough, however a guild should have some sort of structure or chain of leadership and shouldn't be some fresh to server noob. For example Dsawemed would make a great Farm guild leader where as I would make a piss poor one since I know very little about farming on this server. That was the only reason I mentioned making some sort of server mod/guide a guild leader
Then make like a pool for people that are active on the server and are the best at what they do and have not been banned. Might be hard ro do since almost every1 has but just a though
 

Multitallented

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
I'm not doing anything new for the guild system. If I did it would give you the ability to hire other people through contracts for pvp, item farming, building, etc.
 

yeelowsnow

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
SoCal
Very interesting topic to read. If you can deliver on everything, this will be a big benefit for herocraft.


edit: the mroe I read, the more excited I become..

@Ahrall check this out
 

Irishman81

Senior Staff
Guide
Architect
Balance Team
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
I'm not doing anything new for the guild system. If I did it would give you the ability to hire other people through contracts for pvp, item farming, building, etc.
I've always wanted to see something like this! Really hope this can happen!
 
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