Suggestion To kill a new player camper,

[Rhapsodist]

Kainzo, as of last night, they still dropped. Confirmed because I killed a level 12.

 

[0xNaomi]

Medals dont drop unless the player is above 45.... please test this again...

Murdered Soren (lvl 1 lost soul) and got a medal. Definitely not on live.

 

[Eldrylars]

All we have to do is reimplement core features of the plugin to fit what you want, no big deal. Let's just store every instance of kills ever somewhere, and change the entire effect system to persist through death, logoff and reboot.

I would hope with all the good minds we have on board that between everyone we could figure out a simpler way to code it. I am far far from a professional coder, but some directions come to mind. You mentioned above "storing every instance of kills ever" but that seems wasteful(and possibly sarcastic?) Store instances in an array for each player of kills that are still on a CD and wipe them when the CD expires.
Perhaps something where if the CD is active(IE > 0) then the server will check through the players current kills and see which one has the largest counter and apply the effects of that counter. Like I said I am not a professional programmer, but with the several we have on board, I am sure you guys could come up with a more resource simplified idea.

What about any class with range? What good will punching do when they can't punch the person because they have a Punch II bow and know the land more than their target? What good will it do when you can use ranged anything to still kill them with their barely-anything HP before they can touch you?

Understood, knowing the game mechanics and having gear will definitely make it harder for the new player to get to the Vet, but not only would it be possible, but ANY other Vet could now kill the griefing Vet with little more then looking at them. The griefer themselves would find quickly that they are being camped and the tables have been turned because a single arrow from another player would send the griefer back to to graveyard. A stat loss penalty would shut them down and I can almost guarantee that players would not camp naked new players with that penalty. I am pretty sure the Exp penalty would also function as a great deterrent. @moosearefish with you knowing the PvP crowd on the server pretty well, do you feel that if players lost upwards of an entire level of experience for each kill over X that those players would continue killing the naked new player even if they lost a level per kill?

The abuse is that people will still camp noobs. No matter what. Five times, then onto the next, putting a disincentive will not stop it. Five times is more than enough for people to not want to play any more. Going back to "what does this say" territory: Why is five deaths of camping okay and any more isn't? What does that say to a new player? "You're allowed to be fodder 5 times per day per person that wants to kill you." Oh yes, because that makes them feel so good that they'll *only* lose everything they have on them five times.

Well, as I said previously we both just feel very differently about this part.
This being a full PvP server players should be expected to have to fight and most likely die many many times, it's just part of Herocraft. What's not intended to be part of Herocraft is players being blocked from playing on the server because no matter where they do they get found and hunted by high level players.
I myself have 50 death(or near) and I am a vet player with a huge town behind me. As a new player I would expect to have more then double that many deaths, and that was ok in my mind when I was a new player with all those deaths, it was part of the servers thrill, but as a new player I was never camped and blocked from playing the game, which would have been totally different.

The idea is not to protect new players from PvP(an important part of HC) but from being camped and prevented from playing the game.

What about the fools who run to their death chest thirteen times? Should the experienced player be punished because the noob is a moron that doesn't realize how the system works at all? At that rate, just keep all items on death, then nobody will need to die at death chests /s.

I don't see how this has any relation to the situation, maybe you could expand on it?
the vet player could place Obsidian around the chest, or even cobblestone and more then likely a brand new player who only have 8 hours of play on the server is not only not going to have a clue how to get back to their death chest(if they even know what a death chest is) with the timer only being 6 minutes, it will be very rare for a completely new player to get back to the their chest and die 5 times before the vet gets their stuff.
Maybe I am reading it wrong, were you trying to say?
Should the experienced player be punished because the noob knows how to play the system and is trying to work the vet over?

If that's what you mean then I would say yes, there is a chance of that happening, but in the first 10-20 hours of the game, most players are trying to learn how to move, get money and build a base more then they are trying to cheat the system to harass veteran players. In the situation that one decided to do that, it would up to the vet to be creative in ways of keeping the noob off his chest long enough to loot it. Knockbacks, Roots, Stuns, Melons there are a million ways to deflect a naked player for 6 minutes.

Then figure out ways around it like you seem to be trying to do here. The point of a timer based system is that it becomes far more difficult to exploit. Add in towns, and it's suddenly very limited in scope. I'm sure a creative mind could figure out other points at which it can be thought around to prevent further abuse.
I never said to use Bastion's system. Players under level X are immune until they hit that level? Yeah, that goes badly. Good thing that's not what was stated.

Hmm, my memory of Bastions system was a levelX Or hourX system. I certainly could be wrong, Bastion was so long ago now. Was Bastion not limited in both hours played and levels?

You said it yourself, "a different noob". All I see this doing is causing more problems. Since people who don't want to apparently revert to 0 stats stop at five kills and attack someone else, that just means even more of the incoming playerbase is being hit by them than before. Rather than one person being hit 15 times, three people are being hit 5, which increases the chances of more people leaving the server.

If this is true that being killed 5 times would make more players leave then you are right that this suggestion could hurt the server, but I am in disagreement with you on that being the effect and that player expect to be killed several times a day. I would love to heave more peoples opinions on this point as to whether they believe most players would quit after being killed 5 times, but most likely it would be just like you and I are doing, speculating.


The final thing I wanted to bring up is back at @Kainzo, is this even something you care to see as a suggestion with it's flaws being flushed out? All things considered would a system like this even be considered or is it totally out of the vision for the game? If it's out of the vision and a real non starter I wont worry about investing more thought into it, but if you like the information and find the ideas of any value I can continue to put some energy into it.

 

[JacobBurkey]

@Eldrylars If you want an opinion: Good idea, numbers obviously just thrown out but Naomi is getting salty over nothing. As to when Naomi said "vets know how to level fast and wont care" Um yeah, leveling is pure cancer and I wouldn't kill a noob over and over and then have to go level....
There's no real fix, this community is full of dick's who will just kill someone to see them rage or because there's nothing else to do, we don't care about loot at this point, we have everything we need. I don't care enough to go over every point you two have said, but it's just a suggestion, idk why naomi is getting so upset tbh.

The noobs just aren't the same anymore either, most new players nowadays seem to be 12 and no common sense as to what to do when they die. Most back in the day would be like hey, I can't kill them because they're stronger, maybe I should figure out what to do! Maybe join a town and have them help me to kill them or level me up so I can fight them! Now it's, HEY WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU MUNCHLAX YOU'RE SO BAD YOU NEED 5 PEOPLE TO KILL ME AND UR MAX WTF.

Also this is just going back to last map with the noob killings, because people are leaving as you all can see (large majority of the pvpers) and it's this same group of "pvpers" i.e munch/other scrubs killing noobs because there's no pvp.

If you want my p̶e̶r̶s̶p̶e̶c̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ opinion on a different topic tell me, I know I didn't really go over much since your guys' posts started turning into walls and I was like fuck it...

 

[Dwarfers]

Yeah, I think it is more the personalities and attitudes of the players we have rather than the system. A lot of the PvP players only want to kill and then complain when there is nobody to kill and there's nothing to do. This server, as stated for many years, is not a pure PvP server. There is so much to have fun with on Herocraft than just leveling a class and killing the same people. Things are only boring if you make them boring. Today I looked at PvP top and I saw many people that have over 500 kills and minimal deaths which just tells me camping noob strategies in play. I did enjoy the whole idea of not being able to attack someone until they are a certain level. My personal solution to camping is to recruit as many new players as I can while at the same time attempting to give them my knowledge and help them play smarter to avoid being camped. I honestly don't know what much can be done system wise. I also avoided a lot if the word walls like JacobBurkey haha.

 

[JacobBurkey]

Today I looked at PvP top and I saw many people that have over 500 kills and minimal deaths which just tells me camping noob strategies in play..

Idk man check /pvp top deaths #thenoobsstrikeback "champion"

 

[j2gay]

I like the idea of doing something to combat noob camping. However with the playerbase that we have I don't think an idea like this can work. If we penalize 1 Max level after 5 kills of the same low level they will just bring 2 -5 friends and get 5 kills each. This could indeed be worse than being harrased by 1/

The bottom line is that we have a large contingent of immature players who enjoy harassing people, have nothing better to do, and will work around any system you put in place in order to continue doing it.

My suggestion would be to build in a component that can be enjoyable for both the campers and the campees.

Create an extremely powerful class only available to staff.
Make the class capable of 1v3 to 1v5 ing max levels with relative ease.
Recruit justice crusader type PvPers to join its ranks, with a penalty for abuse of say 3-6 months as a lost soul.
They will then serve as a type of police force.
When max levels start camping and harassing people the police force (I suggest calling them something like the vanguard) comes in and gives them a taste of their own medicine.
They will not be impossible to kill just incredibly difficult. Of course the camping type players will rage and want to gather a large group to fight back, thus epic PVP battles ensue.
Such a system would provide entertainment for the Vanguard, the campers, and probably the campees as well.