The "Utility" Classes

[Favith]

Before I make any suggestions (in the suggestion forum, of course) about balancing out the three utility classes (Bard, Beguiler and now Paladin) I wanted to make sure I had all the information correct. It would be great if people with first hand knowledge of these classes chimed in to fill in the gaps and correct false data.

Currently, all data I have is from the Wiki, the dev notes and my personal bard experience up to level 38.

Is this summary of the classes basically correct?

Paladin
Heavy Armor-high health, Single Target Attacks (Bash, Strike, Soulfire), Nice defensive skills (Shield/Invuln/Shield Reflect)

Utility Abilities: Healing (Layhands and Pray), Conviction, CC via Reconing (AOE) and Divine Stun (Single Target).

Bard
Chain Armor-medium health, AOE Attacks (Melodic Binding, Boastful Bellow, Voidsong), Single Target Attacks (Kick, Envenom)

Utility Abilities: Healing (HealingChorus--very minor), Accelerando (Speed buff), Warsong, Manasong, CC via Voidsong (AOE Silence) and Kick (Single Target Silence).

Beguiler
Leather Armor-low health, AOE Attacks (Pulse, Plaguebomb), Single Target Attacks (Fireball, Icebolt),

Utility Abilities: CC via Piggify (single Target) and Mass Piggify (AOE). CC via Icebolt. Debuff via Dispel (Single Target) and Purge (AOE), Might, Wisdom


Aside from the basic summary above is it fair to say the following:

1) Beguilers are the strongest AOE DPS of the three?
2) Bards are the best Single Target DPS of the three? --or does Beguiler win out due to the ability to kite while DPSing?
3) Paladins are the most durable of the three?
4) Beguilers Might and Wisdom are superior than the Bard counterparts (Warsong/Manasong) in that they are a one time cast every 3 minutes vs the Bard having to spend resources every 15 seconds to maintain the same effect?
5) The Best CC, overall, is the Beguiler?
6) Pray is a useful healing ability making a Paladin more of heal/utility than just a utility? --honest question here since I don't know how good Pray is and how often Paladins (in their new "utility" role) will actually choose to use it.

Clarification Needed:
Does Bard's Melodic Binding skill have a root component as well as the 75-ish DoT damage component or not? I've heard it does but haven't witnessed it slowing anybody down when I've applied it.

Opinion Wanted:
1) How valuable is Accelerando (seems to be the only thing Bard can do that the others can't do better)?
2) How valuable is Conviction (the one true "buff" Paladins bring to the table)?

Does anybody have anything to add about these three classes that I've missed?

Thanks!

 

[cschris54321]

Piggify is glitched to were anybody who knows how can break out instantly making them the caster class with the worst cc atm besides pyromancer.

 

[eagles90809]

1) Beguilers are and should be the strongest AOE DPS of the three because to fit Kainzo's description, caster is the highest dmg with a huge burst.
2) Bards are the best Single Target DPS of the three because they are Rogues, Melee assassins, fitting their lore and intentions.
3) Paladins are and should be the most durable. This is obvious. They are warriors and are the tankiest OPest classes in the game. (Wonder why Draconis99 played it?) This fits their lore.

All that you did here was state the obvious.
Caster=mass aoe burst (beguiler)
Rogue=single target (bard)
Warrior=single target tanky (pally)

-SirEagle

 

[alexhoff1]

Wizard = utility...
Group teleport, port, AoE hitters,
Gosh man get it right. :L

just thought you should know about that..

 

[Aerokii]

As far as Paladin goes, your information is pretty much accurate. As far as Pray goes, to rely on a paladin as a main heal in any party is complete folly. Generally- and especially in the old MAs, we could never heal a group fast enough to keep up with mobs.

However, on an individual basis, pray is used very, very often. I would say that skill is less about its utility, and more about tanking/survival.

 

[Favith]

1) Beguilers are and should be the strongest AOE DPS of the three because to fit Kainzo's description, caster is the highest dmg with a huge burst.
2) Bards are the best Single Target DPS of the three because they are Rogues, Melee assassins, fitting their lore and intentions.
3) Paladins are and should be the most durable. This is obvious. They are warriors and are the tankiest OPest classes in the game. (Wonder why Draconis99 played it?) This fits their lore.

All that you did here was state the obvious.
Caster=mass aoe burst (beguiler)
Rogue=single target (bard)
Warrior=single target tanky (pally)

-SirEagle

If you look at the single target DPS of a Bard, as far as skills go, they get kick and envenom. Basic Rogue stuff.

If you look at the single target DPS of a Beguiler they get Fireball (basic) and Icebolt (spec).

If you look at the single target DPS of a Paladin they get Bash and Strike (basic) as well as, Soulfire and Shield Reflect (and Divine Stun does some damage to a single target as well if you want to count that).

Do the single-target spec skills granted to Paladin and Beguiler make it better single target DPS than the non-spec skills granted to Bards? Generally speaking, Spec Skills > Base class skills. Of course, Rogue DPS is aided by increased base weapon damage.

And no, all that I did was not simply state the obvious. Reread the entire post please. I posed several questions and petitioned for quite a bit of feedback. Specifically from people who actually played the classes and might have first-hand insight. Which of these three do you play (have you played) and do you have anything to add other than "you just stated the obvious" while ignoring all the queries I put forth in the post?

Thanks

 

[eagles90809]

Your welcome[DOUBLEPOST=1349150826,1349150714][/DOUBLEPOST]Facepalm war you start? Facepalm war you will lose

 

[Aerokii]

If you look at the single target DPS of a Bard, as far as skills go, they get kick and envenom. Basic Rogue stuff.

If you look at the single target DPS of a Beguiler they get Fireball (basic) and Icebolt (spec).

If you look at the single target DPS of a Paladin they get Bash and Strike (basic) as well as, Soulfire and Shield Reflect (and Divine Stun does some damage to a single target as well if you want to count that).

Do the single-target spec skills granted to Paladin and Beguiler make it better single target DPS than the non-spec skills granted to Bards? Generally speaking, Spec Skills > Base class skills. Of course, Rogue DPS is aided by increased base weapon damage.

And no, all that did was not simply state the obvious. Reread the entire post please. I posed several questions and petitioned for quite a bit of feedback. Specifically from people who actually played the classes and might have first-hand insight. Which of these three do you play (have you played) and do you have anything to add other than "you just stated the obvious" while ignoring all the queries I put forth in the post?

Thanks

Note that Shield Reflect is not very effective for dps except in very large groups, since with a shield equipped you'll do far less damage than you would with a sword. I'd also say that divine stun is more utility than a full out attack- due to its warm up time and relatively low damage (less than bash AND strike.) Though, one could argue that you could do a lot of damage when they're stunned. I guess this on could go either way.

 

[Favith]

Note that Shield Reflect is not very effective for dps except in very large groups, since with a shield equipped you'll do far less damage than you would with a sword. I'd also say that divine stun is more utility than a full out attack- due to its warm up time and relatively low damage (less than bash AND strike.) Though, one could argue that you could do a lot of damage when they're stunned. I guess this on could go either way.

That makes sense, Aerokii--thanks.

Question: If you were being attacked by 5 or so people would you swap to a shield and pop shield reflect or keep dpsing one at a time with a sword (ie, which method would provide you with greater dps output, in your opinion)? Assuming you're in a group and you have help but for whatever reason the 5+ people you're fighting all said "Focus the Pally!"

 

[eagles90809]

You need your shield out to trigger the effects of shield reflect. Get it? it makes sense

 

[Aerokii]

That makes sense, Aerokii--thanks.

Question: If you were being attacked by 5 or so people would you swap to a shield and pop shield reflect or keep dpsing one at a time with a sword (ie, which method would provide you with greater dps output, in your opinion)? Assuming you're in a group and you have help but for whatever reason the 5+ people you're fighting all said "Focus the Pally!"

You need your shield out to trigger the effects of shield reflect. Get it? it makes sense

If I had to guess (and hopefully I won't run into that any time soon), my most likely reaction would be to pop Reckoning to draw them all in towards me, then switch to my shield and reflect. After that, it depends on how much hp is left.

The thing about shield reflect is, I really need to test when precisely the reflection calculation occurs. It could do a lot of damage if it doesn't account for the damage reduction armor, shield, and conviction- but if it uses the damage AFTER it's been reduced, for a paladin, it could be very, very weak.

I'll test within the next few days and let you know.

 

[Kainzo]

Looks like we're going to need a scale. Let me crack open my scale.