Suggestion The "logging" issue needs attention.

[victim130]

Kainzo, looks like we're on the same page here, then.


This would help solve Delf's #2 issue.


This would help solve Delf's #1 and #3

Unfortunately.... there seems like there is no way to solve the #4 issue then.

Eh I feel if it was lengthened it would cause problems elsewhere and if it was like an extra 5 seconds, we wouldn't notice a difference.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

If it was lengthened, it would be easier to die accidentally. However the Heromod now shows your combat time, so that should help counter that issue.

 

[victim130]

If it was lengthened, it would be easier to die accidentally. However the Heromod now shows your combat time, so that should help counter that issue.

Though not everyone can use it/does use it.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Escaping the combat timer means you failed to keep the person in combat - it's not an issue, this is the design of the "in-combat" setting. If they ARE in combat, they WILL die. There's no if's and's or but's about it. There are two "Death" events triggered, one on log out and one on log in. They'll die (Twice possibly)

Kainzo, I understand what you're trying to say, but my argument is that what you are asking for is not always possible--especially if there is any server lag at all.

I'd like to restate the first issue I mentioned in my post.

1. Someone can easily log out before a fight actually starts.

View distances for players feels as though it is around 100 blocks or so. Most abilities do not reach that far. The only two ways that can combat tag a player from that distance are fireball and bow/arrow. Unfortunately, you can log out faster than either of those projectiles even reach you--logging is just too fast.

Players have become entirely too good at good at logging. Their ability to mash escape and click quit is much better than my ability to aim a fireball or an arrow at a 100+ block range.

It is not possible to implement a log out timer at this time. Though I agree that even when you log out your character should be kept on-line for several seconds.

But I heard that there was indeed a plugin that has already accomplished this. Would it be impossible to bring this plugin to Herocraft?

Because honestly, leaving the player in the world is really all I am asking--it will solve almost all logging issues. If a player's character stays ingame for 15-20 seconds after he has logged out, there shouldn't ever be any more logging in PVP. Doing this would also prevent the need for the current "combat logging" system. If you can't kill someone who stands completely still in 15-20 seconds, I could understand the other player(s) not deserving the kill.


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[Kainzo]

The ultimate and unobtainable goal atm - is to spawn a character/NPC that is left in the world - who won't fight back and will sit there and get beat on. So no matter what, when you log out - a character is left.

This is a dirty hack/fix and it isnt something we really want to do. There's a lot of consequences / catches that must be done for something like that.

 

[Delfofthebla]

The ultimate and unobtainable goal atm - is to spawn a character/NPC that is left in the world - who won't fight back and will sit there and get beat on. So no matter what, when you log out - a character is left.

This is a dirty hack/fix and it isnt something we really want to do. There's a lot of consequences / catches that must be done for something like that.

While I understand it feels a little too "hacky", I think it is a necessary evil at this current point of the server. I did a little googling earlier and saw several plugins that accomplished this already. Have you experimented with these plugins at all? I am curious if they are worth using, instead of having to recreate them yourself.

 

[leftovers5]

While I understand it feels a little too "hacky", I think it is a necessary evil at this current point of the server. I did a little googling earlier and saw several plugins that accomplished this already. Have you experimented with these plugins at all? I am curious if they are worth using, instead of having to recreate them yourself.

Posting the specific plugins would be helpful..

 

[Delfofthebla]

Posting the specific plugins would be helpful..

I wasn't sure if Kainzo would approve of me doing so.

http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/ant/

http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/dragonantipvpleaver

Kainzo, thoughts?

 

[Kainzo]

This is a dirty hack/fix and it isnt something we really want to do. There's a lot of consequences / catches that must be done for something like that.

Danda can throw the above on test (we wont use anything that requires a specific library though)

mung3r can you see about implementing a clean method for having an NPC dropped at the player location whenever they log out and then if that Entity/NPC dies have it affect the log in / inventory of said player when they log back in? - Also let me know if this is too dirty of a method, because just writing it makes me feel dirty.

 

[Nightroado]

In Everquest 1, you had to /sit and then /camp. Then 30 seconds later you would go to the character screen. If you /q aka /quit then your character remained in the world with (Linkdead) next to your name and was still attackable by mobs for 30 seconds.

In EQ2, they shortened it to 20 seconds.

It sounds like you all want the same thing. I find it amusing that a lot of suggestion made are common features from MMOs. The usual point of this is to prevent players from avoiding death, usually to mobs rather than pvp. But it is commonly implemented in a lot of today's MMOs, so I don't think it is "dirty" to put in.

This is suppose to be a hardcore server after all.

Heck, there is a MMO that came out recently called Wizardry Online where there higher the level you are, the greater the chance you experience permadeath when you die. You can sacrifice gold and items to help increase your odds, but yeah. That game is not for lightweights between permadeath and open pvp across the entire world.

 

[awsumguy75321]

In Everquest 1, you had to /sit and then /camp. Then 30 seconds later you would go to the character screen. If you /q aka /quit then your character remained in the world with (Linkdead) next to your name and was still attackable by mobs for 30 seconds.

In EQ2, they shortened it to 20 seconds.

It sounds like you all want the same thing. I find it amusing that a lot of suggestion made are common features from MMOs. The usual point of this is to prevent players from avoiding death, usually to mobs rather than pvp. But it is commonly implemented in a lot of today's MMOs, so I don't think it is "dirty" to put in.

This is suppose to be a hardcore server after all.

Heck, there is a MMO that came out recently called Wizardry Online where there higher the level you are, the greater the chance you experience permadeath when you die. You can sacrifice gold and items to help increase your odds, but yeah. That game is not for lightweights between permadeath and open pvp across the entire world.

What's permadeath? Would you be banned, or just have to start a new character, or what?

 

[Kainzo]

In Everquest 1, you had to /sit and then /camp. Then 30 seconds later you would go to the character screen. If you /q aka /quit then your character remained in the world with (Linkdead) next to your name and was still attackable by mobs for 30 seconds.

In EQ2, they shortened it to 20 seconds.

It sounds like you all want the same thing. I find it amusing that a lot of suggestion made are common features from MMOs. The usual point of this is to prevent players from avoiding death, usually to mobs rather than pvp. But it is commonly implemented in a lot of today's MMOs, so I don't think it is "dirty" to put in.

This is suppose to be a hardcore server after all.

Heck, there is a MMO that came out recently called Wizardry Online where there higher the level you are, the greater the chance you experience permadeath when you die. You can sacrifice gold and items to help increase your odds, but yeah. That game is not for lightweights between permadeath and open pvp across the entire world.

I loved the /sit /camp
It is dirty because Minecraft handles players differently and is not set up to be an MMORPG. I understand the logic and it isnt "clean" by any coding standards.

 

[Vongard]

I agree with the sentiment but at the same time you have to understand this from the other perspective. If you are traveling with multiple people and come across one guy they guy is screwed he will not escape and he will lose all of his things. I travel in groups often and people constantly pvp log on us, a large group of people. When traveling alone i have noticed my seen players to logged players ratio decreases dramatically. When i am alone the main people that log are low levels whom would stand no chance against me. The simple fact is this: people combat log after being ganked so many times that they refuse to let it happen again. I do not think this is right, and i do think it should be fixed but for the time being simply fighting fair fights will dramatically reduce logging.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I agree with the sentiment but at the same time you have to understand this from the other perspective. If you are traveling with multiple people and come across one guy they guy is screwed he will not escape and he will lose all of his things. I travel in groups often and people constantly pvp log on us, a large group of people. When traveling alone i have noticed my seen players to logged players ratio decreases dramatically. When i am alone the main people that log are low levels whom would stand no chance against me. The simple fact is this: people combat log after being ganked so many times that they refuse to let it happen again. I do not think this is right, and i do think it should be fixed but for the time being simply fighting fair fights will dramatically reduce logging.

What you say is indeed true, but people will still log on you, even if it is a fair fight. I've ran into a party of 3 people with only having 2 people myself. The advantage was clearly in the hands of the 3. However, instead of fighting us, they scattered like rats--we focused on the target that was the closest to us, while the other 2 proceeded to log out the moment they realized they were "safe" from combat.

 

[Nightroado]

What's permadeath? Would you be banned, or just have to start a new character, or what?

Your character and everything that wasn't stored in the bank would be deleted. There were two separates things to level to help soften the blow of this. You had your individual character levels and then your "soul" level. The soul level takes longer to raise but it was an exp bar that was raised by all your characters. The higher the soul level, the more perks you had to counteract permadeath and having to start over.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Danda can throw the above on test (we wont use anything that requires a specific library though)

mung3r can you see about implementing a clean method for having an NPC dropped at the player location whenever they log out and then if that Entity/NPC dies have it affect the log in / inventory of said player when they log back in? - Also let me know if this is too dirty of a method, because just writing it makes me feel dirty.

Any word on this? I'd like to know if I should just continue to bash my face into my keyboard when players log on me or if there is any light at the end of the tunnel.

I know that you recently increased the combat tag timer, but this will not solve the logging issue entirely. While it is a nice gesture, it is simply not enough. The biggest problem right now is that players log directly before a fight starts--not during. (Though they will do this if they can.)

 

[Kainzo]

No word atm, I stated above whats going on atm. There is no easy fix at this time.
I discussed with mung3r briefly but aside from managing a lot of things we dont want to manage/keep track of - theres no fix for creating a log out timer and keeping all players "logged in".

 

[ThatAintFalco]

Why not give every class a 100 block aoe dealing 0.00000000000000000001 damage
a mana or stamina cost and has a 9 second cd

 

[DamianFails]

When i'm getting attacked, since most of the time it's someone way higher than me in level, I just sit there blocking until I die... I dunno why I do it, but I do.

 

[Delfofthebla]

When i'm getting attacked, since most of the time it's someone way higher than me in level, I just sit there blocking until I die... I dunno why I do it, but I do.

Lol.

For the record though, blocking doesn't work on Herocraft. ><