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The heck is up with our chat culture?

weynard

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Likes
153
Location
Langenhagen (Hanover)
#1
Alright. Let me start by describing three incidents from these two days:

1) I was at Tau earlier, talking to Delta who had just barely made it inside the town limits before. He challenged me to a fight, implying he'd probably bring friends. I agreed. (You see, I don't mind being at the disadvantage.)
Sure enough, after putting both the fully equipped Dreadknight and his Ranger friend at around half health, I get an arrow to the head and die. Good fight.

2) Later, TOADnZACK and his friend Angel_Works showed up at my base. Being a Ranger, TOAD had tracked me. As I saw their names through the wall, I quickly /shouted at him and left my farms to store my goods.
As that was the first time someone had broken into my cave, I dropped everything but cobble and picks off and went back into the complex to watch their reaction. Sure enough, I get killed. Fine. Expected as much.

3) So I was raiding North reach a little.
First time they got me with lava in their town hall. Fine. Shoulda moved.
Second time I die to some lava trap house. Fine. Well built and awesome.
Third time I get flocked by 4 people. Still fine. Shoulda done more scouting.
Fourth time, they kill me legit in 1v1. Laggy, but still fine.

---

Now, you might have noticed I put "Fine" after all those deaths. Then why do I create this thread?
Because after all these kills, I have been continuously bashed by Munno, RedKhan, mt517, TOADnZACK, rawbb, xxMASSCHAOSx and others. But you know what?

I wouldn't even care. I enjoy the occasional banter. I often swear and provoke, but even I was offended by the sheer stupidity of some of our players.

You see, I don't have a problem with you stating what you think went wrong in a fight you lost.
It helps me to understand what would have been different under ideal circumstances and how to prepare myself for a situation in which just that might occur.
Like I said, nothing against having civl discussion after a fight.

I really wouldn't be bothered IF:

a) it weren't for the fact that of all those only one has ever beaten me in a serious fight and most of the others that are trying to troll me are those that I have been continually killing at some point during the last months.
From my POV, they sense an opportunity to get back at me for their self-induced miseries, but that's just speculation.

b) the conversation wouldn't completely derail.

I know I've been beating that bush for a long time, but a Ranger easily gets serious problems once it starts to lag (especially with damage not being calculated- you can see the arrows bouncing off your enemies without damaging them).
Kainzo acknowledged that fact during the meeting yesterday.
It's not so much a matter of skill but connection, hardware and luck that you kill someone. I'm not debating that there might be those with better aim than me (always a bigger fish blah blah), but I have been using an MC bow for some really long time now.
I know where to point that thing to make it count.
But alas, I'll not go further into detail about the ranger and get back to topic.

As I was starting to explain my reasoning about why the bow currently sucks major cow dick to defend myself from the hordes of haters, suddenly people (some of which weren't even Rangers) started barging in, jumping to conclusions about my lacking skills, about bad perception, a bad computer etc etc and, without even once relating to my arguments, started pointing out how OP the ranger would be for his 24 heart hits.

I went on, saying that in the situation concerned my enemy had been 4 blocks away, swinging at me, and that it would have been impossible to use the full damage potential at close range- it would have been suicide to fully pull back the string with the enemy that close (If you tried, you'd slow down because of the new bow effects and the enemy would rape you before your bow was even charged).
Now I, thinking I had made a productive contribution to the discussion, found my statement completely ignored.
Half a dozen people, whose names I know since maybe half a week, suddenly started gloating about how I was all big talk all the time without backing it up.

Seriously guys, what is your problem with me? Am I too oldschool for you? Can you not follow my chatting?

To put it in a nutshell, I am deeply concerned with the immature behaviour of many members of this community. If you feel like this isn't a problem, go ahead and enjoy yourelf being a superior person.
 

DagothAgahnim

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Likes
19
#2
I'd agree to this, there's alot of flame coming from some of the new people who really have no business flaming anyone. And yeah, in SMP the Bow is 100% goddamned useless unless your target is standing completely still or they run straight at you and you see them coming 50 blocks off.
 

Drastikos

Moderator
Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Likes
120
Location
Newerth
#7
Alright. Let me start by describing three incidents from these two days:

1) I was at Tau earlier, talking to Delta who had just barely made it inside the town limits before. He challenged me to a fight, implying he'd probably bring friends. I agreed. (You see, I don't mind being at the disadvantage.)
Sure enough, after putting both the fully equipped Dreadknight and his Ranger friend at around half health, I get an arrow to the head and die. Good fight.

2) Later, TOADnZACK and his friend Angel_Works showed up at my base. Being a Ranger, TOAD had tracked me. As I saw their names through the wall, I quickly /shouted at him and left my farms to store my goods.
As that was the first time someone had broken into my cave, I dropped everything but cobble and picks off and went back into the complex to watch their reaction. Sure enough, I get killed. Fine. Expected as much.

3) So I was raiding North reach a little.
First time they got me with lava in their town hall. Fine. Shoulda moved.
Second time I die to some lava trap house. Fine. Well built and awesome.
Third time I get flocked by 4 people. Still fine. Shoulda done more scouting.
Fourth time, they kill me legit in 1v1. Laggy, but still fine.

---

Now, you might have noticed I put "Fine" after all those deaths. Then why do I create this thread?
Because after all these kills, I have been continuously bashed by Munno, RedKhan, mt517, TOADnZACK, rawbb, xxMASSCHAOSx and others. But you know what?

I wouldn't even care. I enjoy the occasional banter. I often swear and provoke, but even I was offended by the sheer stupidity of some of our players.

You see, I don't have a problem with you stating what you think went wrong in a fight you lost.
It helps me to understand what would have been different under ideal circumstances and how to prepare myself for a situation in which just that might occur.
Like I said, nothing against having civl discussion after a fight.

I really wouldn't be bothered IF:

a) it weren't for the fact that of all those only one has ever beaten me in a serious fight and most of the others that are trying to troll me are those that I have been continually killing at some point during the last months.
From my POV, they sense an opportunity to get back at me for their self-induced miseries, but that's just speculation.

b) the conversation wouldn't completely derail.

I know I've been beating that bush for a long time, but a Ranger easily gets serious problems once it starts to lag (especially with damage not being calculated- you can see the arrows bouncing off your enemies without damaging them).
Kainzo acknowledged that fact during the meeting yesterday.
It's not so much a matter of skill but connection, hardware and luck that you kill someone. I'm not debating that there might be those with better aim than me (always a bigger fish blah blah), but I have been using an MC bow for some really long time now.
I know where to point that thing to make it count.
But alas, I'll not go further into detail about the ranger and get back to topic.

As I was starting to explain my reasoning about why the bow currently sucks major cow dick to defend myself from the hordes of haters, suddenly people (some of which weren't even Rangers) started barging in, jumping to conclusions about my lacking skills, about bad perception, a bad computer etc etc and, without even once relating to my arguments, started pointing out how OP the ranger would be for his 24 heart hits.

I went on, saying that in the situation concerned my enemy had been 4 blocks away, swinging at me, and that it would have been impossible to use the full damage potential at close range- it would have been suicide to fully pull back the string with the enemy that close (If you tried, you'd slow down because of the new bow effects and the enemy would rape you before your bow was even charged).
Now I, thinking I had made a productive contribution to the discussion, found my statement completely ignored.
Half a dozen people, whose names I know since maybe half a week, suddenly started gloating about how I was all big talk all the time without backing it up.

Seriously guys, what is your problem with me? Am I too oldschool for you? Can you not follow my chatting?

To put it in a nutshell, I am deeply concerned with the immature behaviour of many members of this community. If you feel like this isn't a problem, go ahead and enjoy yourelf being a superior person.
I'm unclear if you wanted any feedback or not, but here's what comes to mind. Do with it what you will (here's some salt).

1. People never listen, they never have and never will.
2. Some people like to troll, it's what they do and there are many possible reasons for this.
3. Consider not being concerned. Their behavior doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you, it exists over there with them. You have no reason to care unless you decide to; I don't mean that in a negative sense (not caring) at all either, it's neutral if anything.
If they're truly behaving how you make it seem, consider not to pitty them, make them wrong, want to change them. They are the way they are to their own benefit or detriment, it has nothing to do with you.
Consider having compassion and understanding instead, let them be.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Likes
69
#8
I often swear and provoke
I think you've found the reason people might enjoy your losses in particular.
All I've seen you do in chat is troll; threatening new players and proclaiming yourself "Killer of retards", bad feeling aimed your way is to be expected.

Toughen up and try not to let it upset you too much I guess.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Likes
7,562
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
#9
CoD players handle games the same way, trash talk with no logic. We encourage intellect and we punish those who do not respect that
 

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Likes
957
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
#10
Here's one thing you need to keep in mind:

Herocraft is meant to be a 'hardcore' server with PVP. Simply stringing together "Hardcore" and "PVP" in the same title/statement attracts one large crowd: Children.

The recent players who have joined the server are children. Thus explaining their behavior and lack of any actual social skills. The human child will do what s/he can to make themselves feel larger and older than they actually are. This can be anywhere from spamming attacks along with a horde of friends, throwing around foul language when the occasion in question doesn't even deserve it, to hurling insults at someone who attacked them on numerous occasions (especially if the attacker has died fewer times than the victim). These are kids who don't quite realize that although PVP is implemented in Minecraft and although the server encourages PVP, that's not the main point of the game.

Yes, I said it. PVP is a feature of Minecraft.
Shen your words are so cruel! I remember the early days of Zeal when you made the decision to leave HC. It was before townships and the return of regions. It was a dark and scary time. Full of griefing and trolls. Sure you may be browsing the forum today and seeing the current problems, but things really have improved from back then. These forum posts do not do that fact any justice.

Sure changes still need to be made, but it's not getting any worse, it's still healing and getting better again. It may not be the same as Sanctum world, it's becoming it's own unique Zeal world. It's not THAT bad.

Just saying >.>
 

Aerokii

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
May 23, 2011
Likes
222
Location
Minnesota
#11
It has been a bit of an issue lately- I've had some really rough name-calling/insults before just because I ran away from a fight in which I'd beaten one of the participants, and ran from the second. It was all rather stupid and made me disappointed with some of the people we've been letting onto the server.

On the other hand, there are some legitimately respectful people out there who, while they're not great pvp'ers or fantastic architects, are generally just good to have here.

I guess what I'd like to see some day is a private sort of feedback system aside from /pe... Say if a person gets enough negative feedback that's legitimate (not just "so and so killed me and I'm pissed off"), they could be flagged for further investigation. A way to sort of further look at the whole "not mesh with the community" thing. And perhaps a reward for legitimate positive feedback? No idea on that one unless we count a "good job!" from Kainzo as a prize. Might be a good way for people to put a little more thought into their actions, before they start randomly throwing out insults without any logic behind them, or any other acts of general-dickbaggery.
 

Farroes

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Likes
210
#12
I agree with you weynard, people jump to stupid conclusions all the time and they think if they believe that are true, that they are in fact true.

Just yesterday some little troll was convinced I was banned from the server lol

You gotta get thick skin, which I know you have, I understand that you can only take so much stupidity before it needs to escape.

So in short dont even bother talking with the nobody wanna be trolls out there.
 

Iarbobray

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 14, 2011
Likes
199
#13
Disappointed @Toad

I just talked to ToadNZack about this, he says he never bashed you. I don't know about the rest of the people but this is starting to look fishy.

But other then that you make a good point.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Likes
22
#14
Alright. Let me start by describing three incidents from these two days:

1) I was at Tau earlier, talking to Delta who had just barely made it inside the town limits before. He challenged me to a fight, implying he'd probably bring friends. I agreed. (You see, I don't mind being at the disadvantage.)
Sure enough, after putting both the fully equipped Dreadknight and his Ranger friend at around half health, I get an arrow to the head and die. Good fight.

2) Later, TOADnZACK and his friend Angel_Works showed up at my base. Being a Ranger, TOAD had tracked me. As I saw their names through the wall, I quickly /shouted at him and left my farms to store my goods.
As that was the first time someone had broken into my cave, I dropped everything but cobble and picks off and went back into the complex to watch their reaction. Sure enough, I get killed. Fine. Expected as much.

3) So I was raiding North reach a little.
First time they got me with lava in their town hall. Fine. Shoulda moved.
Second time I die to some lava trap house. Fine. Well built and awesome.
Third time I get flocked by 4 people. Still fine. Shoulda done more scouting.
Fourth time, they kill me legit in 1v1. Laggy, but still fine.

---

Now, you might have noticed I put "Fine" after all those deaths. Then why do I create this thread?
Because after all these kills, I have been continuously bashed by Munno, RedKhan, mt517, TOADnZACK, rawbb, xxMASSCHAOSx and others. But you know what?

I wouldn't even care. I enjoy the occasional banter. I often swear and provoke, but even I was offended by the sheer stupidity of some of our players.

You see, I don't have a problem with you stating what you think went wrong in a fight you lost.
It helps me to understand what would have been different under ideal circumstances and how to prepare myself for a situation in which just that might occur.
Like I said, nothing against having civl discussion after a fight.

I really wouldn't be bothered IF:

a) it weren't for the fact that of all those only one has ever beaten me in a serious fight and most of the others that are trying to troll me are those that I have been continually killing at some point during the last months.
From my POV, they sense an opportunity to get back at me for their self-induced miseries, but that's just speculation.

b) the conversation wouldn't completely derail.

I know I've been beating that bush for a long time, but a Ranger easily gets serious problems once it starts to lag (especially with damage not being calculated- you can see the arrows bouncing off your enemies without damaging them).
Kainzo acknowledged that fact during the meeting yesterday.
It's not so much a matter of skill but connection, hardware and luck that you kill someone. I'm not debating that there might be those with better aim than me (always a bigger fish blah blah), but I have been using an MC bow for some really long time now.
I know where to point that thing to make it count.
But alas, I'll not go further into detail about the ranger and get back to topic.

As I was starting to explain my reasoning about why the bow currently sucks major cow dick to defend myself from the hordes of haters, suddenly people (some of which weren't even Rangers) started barging in, jumping to conclusions about my lacking skills, about bad perception, a bad computer etc etc and, without even once relating to my arguments, started pointing out how OP the ranger would be for his 24 heart hits.

I went on, saying that in the situation concerned my enemy had been 4 blocks away, swinging at me, and that it would have been impossible to use the full damage potential at close range- it would have been suicide to fully pull back the string with the enemy that close (If you tried, you'd slow down because of the new bow effects and the enemy would rape you before your bow was even charged).
Now I, thinking I had made a productive contribution to the discussion, found my statement completely ignored.
Half a dozen people, whose names I know since maybe half a week, suddenly started gloating about how I was all big talk all the time without backing it up.

Seriously guys, what is your problem with me? Am I too oldschool for you? Can you not follow my chatting?

To put it in a nutshell, I am deeply concerned with the immature behaviour of many members of this community. If you feel like this isn't a problem, go ahead and enjoy yourelf being a superior person.
I only killed you ONCE because you had killed my townies, There was no "Bashing" going on...
 

kevinlive

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Likes
387
Location
Norway, Vardø
#15
Well I agree to you Weynard, Kainzo and Drastikos.

Usually there's not much to do with trolls and rages in the chat, one thing is to /ignore them but that isn't allways what you would want to do. But a good idea would be to make the whitelist app much harder and more strict, here's an example.

The first server I played on and acually played on for a while,
was The Plague, to get whitelisted you had to write a huge whitelist app that consisted of a good avarange of 20 sentences(including the small questions) where one question could ask for 5 sentences as a minimum.

This would more or less get rid of the trolls and immature kids while the mature and more patient people would do the app, so in the timespan of 4 months on that server I had only seen like 10 rages and/or trolls in the chat.
Trolls is here and will always be here, but there is ways to limit the amount of them.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Likes
62
#17
<---- mature troll :D

but yea. if you get bashed by people after they kill you, nine times out of ten its them being soo happy they won that they have to be a dick about it in offtopic chat. shit happens.
 

Faunherer

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Likes
193
Location
Winterfell
#18
<---- mature troll :D

but yea. if you get bashed by people after they kill you, nine times out of ten its them being soo happy they won that they have to be a dick about it in offtopic chat. shit happens.
Haha a mature troll is like a giant shrimp!
But giant shrimp still happen...
 

GreekCrackShot

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Likes
702
Location
New York
#19
<---- mature troll :D

but yea. if you get bashed by people after they kill you, nine times out of ten its them being soo happy they won that they have to be a dick about it in offtopic chat. shit happens.
Yeah I do that sometimes, and if it pisses some of you guys off, sorry, I just love pvp so much when I dominate, I have to brag about it. I don't think I'm a beast, I'm not that good at pvp, but it seems that I kill a lot and when someone gets the upper hand on me, and I still win, I can't help but laugh :D
 

Diavolo1988

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Likes
84
Location
Oslo, Norway
#20
Well, I agree that we should have a harder whitelisting process. I started mentioning that too much "rabble"/"kids"/trollers were being let into the server some time around january/february 2011. That amount of immature people have increased exponentially since then, and with the addition of Heroes (making the server more and more popular for pvp'ers and not patient builders) it has just skyrocketed. Making it a bit harder getting in, in terms of describing more about yourself, or plain just writing a bit longer text could be a good idea.

I have earlier proposed having a higher age requirement to join, but the applicant can just lie about it and we all know 13 year olds can be mature. So having more questions on the whitelist application and perhaps demanding a bit longer answers on some of the questions might be smart.

@Weynard: you should remember though, that you are sort of pretty well known as a notorious pvp'er. If Im going to make a list of the "true bad guys" in the server, the list would be: BarGraphics, Weynard. :p So if someone manages to kill you several times in a row, (no matter at how much disadvantage you are) they might wanna brag a bit about it. (although they might do the bragging in a very childish way if they are douches)
 
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