ALERT The Final Stand - New Era/Map Reset

[Kainzo]

Here is my Rant on my idea of how the leveling system should be:
Everyone that was around duing mob arenas agrees that it was the best leveling system, If you brought back mob arenas, but then gave the option for other parties to join into a current match, their would be really really awesome battles within the mob arena between clans. Imagine, your fighting with your town against the mobs, you each have a specific role to play in the action, whether you are for aoe, healing, tanking, ect. And then another party of 5 join in to contest your mob arena. You would be battling it out with a ton of mobs shoting everyone and creepers exploding everywhere, it is how herocraft pvp is meant to be. How it would work is you would have it so that if the party leader join the mob arena, everyone in the party nearby also join the mob arena, but the maximum you can have is 5/6 players join in. That way it would be reasonable to have the maximum amount of players in a mob arena for a decently sized town or alliance of towns. This would also fix the problem of people hogging the mob arenas.

Back in dragongaurd you would have to wait for the people in the Mob arena to finish their match, which might take a long time depending on how good their group is. With my proposed system, if their are a ton of people hogging Mob Arenas, you can just go in and kill them all! Nice! Puts a huge hardcore edge into the game. Dragongaurd was the map with the most pvp, and the reason for it was because it had mob arenas. It was a very successful map. Also, tkrall2 confused legendary classes with teir 2 classes, we both agree that teir 2 classes are cool but nobody wants to level a legendary class and the idea is great but in practice it just rewards people like Xmj and munchlaxhero who are already really good at the game and pvp anyways, with a really strong class and spells that nobody else is willing to work for and has a chance to fight against.

Also, teir 2 classes should require less exp to master, make it only a little harder than the base spec, otherwise it just feels really bad to work to master for example paladin and then lose all your spells for a prolonged amount of time just for a few most attributes and ONE spell if you fully master the spec. It goes back to not needing to make the game more grindy to keep people playing. just make it so that players have a place that naturally creates pvp, like mob arenas. In my opinion, outposts never worked because if you make the incentive too great, it will just be the big towns camping 24/7, but if you make the incentive too small, nobody would bother at all. Plus, their is nothing to do their other than wait for someone else to come so you can kill them, or wait for your 1 charm every 20 mins.

If you integrated the pvp aspect into mob arenas like I suggested, it would be the central hub of the server that everyone would want to be at, you have fun killing mobs, you have fun killing people. You can even have some mob arenas be pvp and some mob arenas be pve. People still played in mob arenas after they mastered because mob arenas were so fun to play. NOBODY wants to grind a dungeon after they master because grinding a dungeon or grinding against monsters with a ton of hp and stupid annoying spells is just boring. Bring back the old mob arenas, make the mobs with a ton of HP and weird spells into the bosses at the end of each 5th wave, and the server will be just as amazing as it was back then.
What I suggested literally soved all the problems with mob arenas, other than you get less money from selling exp boosts. Well, you don't have ANYONE buying ANYTHING from the shop if nobody is playing on the server. So give the players what they want, and have been asking for for a very long time. Give us back mob arenas. You can even make up a lore thing around it even. Make an nps say somthing like: "The city of Camelot is under attack! can you and your brave friends save them?" and if you say yes, tp their party in. I have played on this server for years. I have made many friends on this server. I know what they like about it and keeps them coming back. Kainzo needs to listen in order for this server to be great again.

I won't say that MobArenas are out forever. I will say I didn't like what they effectively did to the world/community. However, MobArena's plugin was lack luster and very simplistic, we could mimic the same effect with MythicMobs and have a more rewarding experience I think. This won't be ready for release and perhaps we'll be able to do it sometime later in this map.

Don't stop keep it up

<3

It's been a while since I've been excited for a Minecraft server release, but there was never really a server I enjoyed more than HC. A lot of things killed HeroCraft for me; the release of mob arenas effectively culling activity in the wild (grinding was pretty rough back then though), the point when a previously malfunctioning anti-grief plugin was reinstated and raids became much less meaningful as chests could be locked safely away and thus the server lost some of its brutality, but more than that, just the unavoidable loss of activity in Oceania hours as Minecraft began to slump. That said, your server remains the most fun I've ever had in a video game, Kain. Sanctum had the most beautiful architecture I've seen in MC. Zeal's plugin malfunction and vibrant community brought to life a roleplaying experience like no other. I have faith that if you find numbers, you can bring back the magic of HeroCraft.

Glad to see you around 'nub!

There's no ratings in this thread, so:
Winner!

I'm glad to see a lot of consideration taken from the Community and implemented.

<3

 

[Kethale]

It's been a while since I've been excited for a Minecraft server release, but there was never really a server I enjoyed more than HC. A lot of things killed HeroCraft for me; the release of mob arenas effectively culling activity in the wild (grinding was pretty rough back then though), the point when a previously malfunctioning anti-grief plugin was reinstated and raids became much less meaningful as chests could be locked safely away and thus the server lost some of its brutality, but more than that, just the unavoidable loss of activity in Oceania hours as Minecraft began to slump. That said, your server remains the most fun I've ever had in a video game, Kain. Sanctum had the most beautiful architecture I've seen in MC. Zeal's plugin malfunction and vibrant community brought to life a roleplaying experience like no other. I have faith that if you find numbers, you can bring back the magic of HeroCraft.

@Kainzo

I think he has a point here when it comes to the locked chest issue, I rarely come to a chest that is unlocked or lootable.. Raiding is usually ineffective, which is sad because it wasn't always that way. I think its something to look at for this map before release because hardcore gameplay has ALWAYS been a part of HC...

 

[Delikin]

I'll definitely at least check it out. *Waves life goodbye*

 

[Kainzo]

@Kainzo

I think he has a point here when it comes to the locked chest issue, I rarely come to a chest that is unlocked or lootable.. Raiding is usually ineffective, which is sad because it wasn't always that way. I think its something to look at for this map before release because hardcore gameplay has ALWAYS been a part of HC...

(Not always but damn close)

To all:

I know we discussed a small vanilla generated map, but after 10 different iterations of this, I am not happy with how vanilla maps will interact with our Townships biome based economic productions.

3 years ago, I purchased a custom rendering with VERY beautiful landscapes, this was going to be used for our adventure map, I have decided to actually use this map instead. It is 2500x2500 and we are going to be limiting it. The landscape is absolutely beautiful and has all the biomes we need.

Just a heads up!

 

[GodOfGales]

(Not always but damn close)

To all:

I know we discussed a small vanilla generated map, but after 10 different iterations of this, I am not happy with how vanilla maps will interact with our Townships biome based economic productions.

3 years ago, I purchased a custom rendering with VERY beautiful landscapes, this was going to be used for our adventure map, I have decided to actually use this map instead. It is 2500x2500 and we are going to be limiting it. The landscape is absolutely beautiful and has all the biomes we need.

Just a heads up!

Neat! This will be much better! @Rihawk_

 

[Trazil]

(Not always but damn close)

To all:

I know we discussed a small vanilla generated map, but after 10 different iterations of this, I am not happy with how vanilla maps will interact with our Townships biome based economic productions.

3 years ago, I purchased a custom rendering with VERY beautiful landscapes, this was going to be used for our adventure map, I have decided to actually use this map instead. It is 2500x2500 and we are going to be limiting it. The landscape is absolutely beautiful and has all the biomes we need.

Just a heads up!

Will it be limited then expanded by like 100 blocks each week or something? I liked that in Bastion... but then again gold was the economy and it gave fresh caves to go into.

 

[Karsain]

Herogates need to be free this map to encourage new plays to look around. Their really is no benefit to having herogates cost money other than to give people incentive to donate or to maybe provide at tiny unrewarding money sink, but their are better ways to get people to donate and their are better ways to create money sinks that don't discourage players from raiding, exploring and trading. To reiterate, herogates should be free. Imagine a new player on the server. You can either go through a herogate to explore the world, or you could run 600 blocks out of spawn in one direction to come across an ocean, have to turn back around, run 1200 blocks the other direction, and then not find any trees for another 400 blocks, and then get camped by someone. Make herogates free. Imagine this: someone wants to sell their relic/tool/enchant at spawn for 25 gold, but it costs 15 gold to go through the herogate. They decide it isn't worth the effort, and the transaction is never completed, slowly killing the economy and therefore the server. A high level player's town wants to raid a town, but they all need to go through the herogate to get their. Their town in total will have to pay 75 gold at 15 gold each just to have the possibility to raid this town, and then they have to go back through the hero-gate to go back home, another 75 gold, so they decide not to raid the other town. They all get off for the night and are all bored, and quit within the next week. While there situations are all theoretical and over-dramatized, they are all possible to happen and something similar is likely to happen. Forcing people to pay for herogates just for the convenience is toxic for the server and the notion that just because it is helpful means it has to cost money is a fallacy. It is a video game and therefore has no penalty for lacking realism, hell, your going through a portal for gods sake, where is the realism in that? Making herogates cost money discourages trading, pvp, exploration, and everything else that makes herocraft fun. The only argument for herogates to cost money is because they always used to cost money. Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it is better than something that is new.

TLDR: Make herogates free for all.

 

[Kainzo]

Herogates need to be free this map to encourage new plays to look around. Their really is no benefit to having herogates cost money other than to give people incentive to donate or to maybe provide at tiny unrewarding money sink, but their are better ways to get people to donate and their are better ways to create money sinks that don't discourage players from raiding, exploring and trading. To reiterate, herogates should be free. Imagine a new player on the server. You can either go through a herogate to explore the world, or you could run 600 blocks out of spawn in one direction to come across an ocean, have to turn back around, run 1200 blocks the other direction, and then not find any trees for another 400 blocks, and then get camped by someone. Make herogates free. Imagine this: someone wants to sell their relic/tool/enchant at spawn for 25 gold, but it costs 15 gold to go through the herogate. They decide it isn't worth the effort, and the transaction is never completed, slowly killing the economy and therefore the server. A high level player's town wants to raid a town, but they all need to go through the herogate to get their. Their town in total will have to pay 75 gold at 15 gold each just to have the possibility to raid this town, and then they have to go back through the hero-gate to go back home, another 75 gold, so they decide not to raid the other town. They all get off for the night and are all bored, and quit within the next week. While there situations are all theoretical and over-dramatized, they are all possible to happen and something similar is likely to happen. Forcing people to pay for herogates just for the convenience is toxic for the server and the notion that just because it is helpful means it has to cost money is a fallacy. It is a video game and therefore has no penalty for lacking realism, hell, your going through a portal for gods sake, where is the realism in that? Making herogates cost money discourages trading, pvp, exploration, and everything else that makes herocraft fun. The only argument for herogates to cost money is because they always used to cost money. Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it is better than something that is new.

TLDR: Make herogates free for all.

I disagree with this. Writing an entire block of text restating the same circular logic isn't convincing me but I am genuinely interested in being convinced if the logic supports it.

What else are you going to spend your money on?

 

[Karsain]

You should be spending your money on trading with other players for things that feel rewarding to use like food gear and special enchanted armor and tools, You can spend your money on creating a town and improving your town size, lwc's and personal regions (kainzo plz)., switching classes and upgrading to teir 2 classes. Spending money on all of these things creates a sense of achievement and accomplishment. It feels good to have to earn these things and have it pay off with something you can see that lasts, something you can show for you hard work.

In contrast, herogates are a one and done thing that you end up paying for just by playing the game normally. To compare it to real life it is like a gas bill. You need the gas in order to get to work to make money to pay for your other stuff, but you don't really feel good about having to spend the money on something you will use once and never think about again. You HAVE to spend the money just for the convenience . Also, the aspect of inflation and the need for a money sink in the game isn't really a problem if you are planning on resetting the map every 5 months, because 5 months really isn't enough time for inflation to really play a role.

Here is a better system that will make it FEEL more rewarding, however the problem is it will still hurt new players. Have a "herogate pass" where it costs 100 souls (just an example amount ofcourse) Once you buy a herogate pass, you can use herogates for the rest of the map for free! And maybe make it an option to sell your herogate pass back to the server or to other players? I don't know. maybe have it in a loot crate. But the whole idea is that you earned the herogate pass, you use it, it is now a part of your character, you get free herogates for the rest of the map. You have something to show for your hard work, and you don't feel like you are being stolen from every time you use a herogate.

I hope I got my point across, basically I just don't want to feel like I am being robbed every time I use a herogate, and I want new players to be able to use the herogates when they first start playing. Maybe make it so that players get free herogates as long as they are under a certain crafter level, kinda like how people get a free warp to spawn if they are a crafter? And then also give players the option to buy a "herogate pass" so that they get free herogates for the rest of the map. Everyone else has to pay 15 souls each teleport. I think that would be a reasonable solution.

 

[0xNaomi]

You don't have to use herogates, and they're supposed to be a moneysink.
In any game where money can generate infinitely, you need ways to drain it.

If anything, herogates should be removed from donor perks so that more money is drained (since a good deal of the serious players have a high enough tier for that perk), but that'd have a good chunk of backlash.

 

[Rihawk_]

Neat! This will be much better! @Rihawk_

Oooo me likey

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Herogates need to be free this map to encourage new plays to look around. Their really is no benefit to having herogates cost money other than to give people incentive to donate or to maybe provide at tiny unrewarding money sink, but their are better ways to get people to donate and their are better ways to create money sinks that don't discourage players from raiding, exploring and trading. To reiterate, herogates should be free. Imagine a new player on the server. You can either go through a herogate to explore the world, or you could run 600 blocks out of spawn in one direction to come across an ocean, have to turn back around, run 1200 blocks the other direction, and then not find any trees for another 400 blocks, and then get camped by someone. Make herogates free. Imagine this: someone wants to sell their relic/tool/enchant at spawn for 25 gold, but it costs 15 gold to go through the herogate. They decide it isn't worth the effort, and the transaction is never completed, slowly killing the economy and therefore the server. A high level player's town wants to raid a town, but they all need to go through the herogate to get their. Their town in total will have to pay 75 gold at 15 gold each just to have the possibility to raid this town, and then they have to go back through the hero-gate to go back home, another 75 gold, so they decide not to raid the other town. They all get off for the night and are all bored, and quit within the next week. While there situations are all theoretical and over-dramatized, they are all possible to happen and something similar is likely to happen. Forcing people to pay for herogates just for the convenience is toxic for the server and the notion that just because it is helpful means it has to cost money is a fallacy. It is a video game and therefore has no penalty for lacking realism, hell, your going through a portal for gods sake, where is the realism in that? Making herogates cost money discourages trading, pvp, exploration, and everything else that makes herocraft fun. The only argument for herogates to cost money is because they always used to cost money. Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it is better than something that is new.

TLDR: Make herogates free for all.

Why not compromise and make herogates free for the first three hours of gameplay on the server. Makes exploring easier when the map first starts out, but once you should be established you'll need to start paying.

They're money pits that encourage exploring on foot, but when the map is densely populated we should give a way for players with absolutely no items to bypass PvP which should be moderately active without it.

 

[MAGYAR12]

@Karsain @Kainzo @Dafefman

I like Karsains idea about having free herogates under a certain level or even Dafefmans idea about having herogates be free for the first 3 hours of gameplay. Seems like a reasonable compromise.

 

[Carbash]

What about linking herogates to conquest points, where townsfight for control of herogates? The herogate would be free for the town who has control over the point as well as gaining a portion of souls from each use of the gate deposited in the town bank. The kicker would be that they would be free at the start of the map until an official town siezes control of the conquest point.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

What about linking herogates to conquest points, where townsfight for control of herogates? The herogate would be free for the town who has control over the point as well as gaining a portion of souls from each use of the gate deposited in the town bank. The kicker would be that they would be free at the start of the map until an official town siezes control of the conquest point.

Oof, no. I don't like the sound of that. PvP at Herogates shouldn't exactly be encouraged (or unecessarily discouraged). This gives a reason to camp Herogates. I say leave them be.

 

[Carbash]

The idea would be that conquest points would be contested every few hours. When not contested they would just be herogates. They would be camped just as much as they always have been outside the contested times.

 

[ytiggidmas]

hope nothing like that last conquest plugin gets put in. herocraft needs a custom one that actually meshes with everything

 

[Karsain]

You don't have to use herogates, and they're supposed to be a moneysink.
In any game where money can generate infinitely, you need ways to drain it.

If anything, herogates should be removed from donor perks so that more money is drained (since a good deal of the serious players have a high enough tier for that perk), but that'd have a good chunk of backlash.

But my point against the money-sink argument is this:
1.If the map is only going to last for 5 mounths like he said, you won't need a money sink, because people don't generate enough money for it to be a problem
2. If the map lasts for longer than 5 months, the money tends to congregate into the hands of a few very rich players and everyone else stops mining because they have nothing of value to work towards, they have all the town upgrades and their buy-able lwc. and becomes poor, and then possibly quits because they can no longer tp around raid/kill/ect because it cost money they don't want to earn because you get nothing meaningful. Herogates do not offer a meaningful money sink to the handful of rich players, to them huge expensive spawn plots and town upgrades count as a meaningful money-sink.
3.If their are other sources you can be putting money into that feel better to put money into than herogates then why use herogates as a moneysink? Spawn plots work the best for people who have a ton of cash, and the poorest players don't have the money to be sunk.

 

[0xNaomi]

But my point against the money-sink argument is this:
1.If the map is only going to last for 5 mounths like he said, you won't need a money sink, because people don't generate enough money for it to be a problem
2. If the map lasts for longer than 5 months, the money tends to congregate into the hands of a few very rich players and everyone else stops mining because they have nothing of value to work towards, they have all the town upgrades and their buy-able lwc. and becomes poor, and then possibly quits because they can no longer tp around raid/kill/ect because it cost money they don't want to earn because you get nothing meaningful. Herogates do not offer a meaningful money sink to the handful of rich players, to them huge expensive spawn plots and town upgrades count as a meaningful money-sink.
3.If their are other sources you can be putting money into that feel better to put money into than herogates then why use herogates as a moneysink? Spawn plots work the best for people who have a ton of cash, and the poorest players don't have the money to be sunk.

1. If the map lasts five minutes, you have far more problems than herogates costing a few c
2. If you're an established player months into the map and give up because herogates cost money, I'd be amazed that person lasted so long to begin with. There's other ways around the map than herogates, if you were really that much of a poor cheapskate (assuming, for the sake of argument, that it actually happens that way).
3. More than one moneysink because one is not enough. See the part where you have other ways around that aren't herogates.

 

[Jrr_]

hope nothing like that last conquest plugin gets put in. herocraft needs a custom one that actually meshes with everything

I sent him one he could us, not sure if he will buy it.