Suggestion [Staff] Profession balance team.

[Babibab]

I've been seeing threads pointing out the discrepancies and paradoxes in professions for a while now, these posts are usually quite interesting, bringing out flaws or needs of professions, proposing ways that these crafter classes can help the betterment of server dynamics, and pointing out how some professions bring more to the multiplayer gametable than others. Like how every single class needs a smith, or an alchemist, or how most players don't really need an engineer.

I've also noticed how, in general, Class threads gather much more attention than profession threads, class threads gather a different crowd, the pvp-avid crowd of Herocraft, Haven's harbingers of doom. They are the player type that make the general population of HC haven.

There are many issues with professions today and we have yet to see a Profession balance super post about them, like the one @malikdanab did, and as much as I appreciate Malik's and the balance teams work on classes, let's face it, their hands are already full with upcoming classes like the shaman and balancing issues.

Which is why I propose the creation, inside the balance team, or parallel to it, of another balance team, one dedicated to professions.

Not only will it help the already existing balance staff with their workload it will also permit a more indepth look at how and why professions can be crucial for the future of town to town fighting, sieging, and such.

I propose this because I believe professions to be central in HC, I love how the combination both of class/profession can make every player unique, for example, as a sneaky ranger engineer, I use the ranger's abilites for hunting players down, and if revenge takes to my foes, engineering permits me to trap the surroundings of my region and base to keep safe from attackers.

Cheers for HC!
Bab

 

[LightningCape]

I've been seeing threads pointing out the discrepancies and paradoxes in professions for a while now, these posts are usually quite interesting, bringing out flaws or needs of professions, proposing ways that these crafter classes can help the betterment of server dynamics, and pointing out how some professions bring more to the multiplayer gametable than others. Like how every single class needs a smith, or an alchemist, or how most players don't really need an engineer.

I've also noticed how, in general, Class threads gather much more attention than profession threads, class threads gather a different crowd, the pvp-avid crowd of Herocraft, Haven's harbingers of doom. They are the player type that make the general population of HC haven.

There are many issues with professions today and we have yet to see a Profession balance super post about them, like the one @malikdanab did, and as much as I appreciate Malik's and the balance teams work on classes, let's face it, their hands are already full with upcoming classes like the shaman and balancing issues.

Which is why I propose the creation, inside the balance team, or parallel to it, of another balance team, one dedicated to professions.

Not only will it help the already existing balance staff with their workload it will also permit a more indepth look at how and why professions can be crucial for the future of town to town fighting, sieging, and such.

I propose this because I believe professions to be central in HC, I love how the combination both of class/profession can make every player unique, for example, as a sneaky ranger engineer, I use the ranger's abilites for hunting players down, and if revenge takes to my foes, engineering permits me to trap the surroundings of my region and base to keep safe from attackers.

Cheers for HC!
Bab

We do both professions and classes
There's a sub forum for it under balance. The reason you see classes come up more is because they are harder to balance, are complained about more, and require (at times) more coding.

All professions and classes have things that the others don't and if you're in a group of people who all have the same profession you'd be missing out.

Also think some idea of breaking into towns is on the docket (not 100% sure though)

 

[Sirdemonic3]

We do both professions and classes
There's a sub forum for it under balance. The reason you see classes come up more is because they are harder to balance, are complained about more, and require (at times) more coding.

All professions and classes have things that the others don't and if you're in a group of people who all have the same profession you'd be missing out.

Also think some idea of breaking into towns is on the docket (not 100% sure though)

indeed, when adding any skill to the game u have to think how it affects or is affected by every other skill in the game, so it takes some time

 

[RagingDragon5]

In my own opinion it feels like professions are lacking something. It feels like professions should be more important. I know professions are needed to make stuff easier, and some professions are actually needed to get some stuff for townships. However, it still doesn't seem that important.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

In my own opinion it feels like professions are lacking something. It feels like professions should be more important. I know professions are needed to make stuff easier, and some professions are actually needed to get some stuff for townships. However, it still doesn't seem that important.

if you come up with anything drop it in the suggestion forums

 

[Danda]

In my own opinion it feels like professions are lacking something. It feels like professions should be more important. I know professions are needed to make stuff easier, and some professions are actually needed to get some stuff for townships. However, it still doesn't seem that important.

Well there are plans to expand further upon professions with the custom crafting of the new equipment whenever that is up and running. However this project has a lower priority than others at present such as townships, etc

 

[RagingDragon5]

I might get a lot of hate for this. However, I saw someone posting that Professions should be more true. Only smiths can make weapons, only farmers can farm, only miners can mine, etc. I thought this was actually a good idea. This is supposed to be a hardcore rp server.

Actually on the topic of this thread. I believe a balance team for professions would be good. I know the balance team actually does both, but they need to focus on the combat classes, it won't hurt to have a second team that specializes in professions.

 

[malikdanab]

I might get a lot of hate for this. However, I saw someone posting that Professions should be more true. Only smiths can make weapons, only farmers can farm, only miners can mine, etc. I thought this was actually a good idea. This is supposed to be a hardcore rp server.

Actually on the topic of this thread. I believe a balance team for professions would be good. I know the balance team actually does both, but they need to focus on the combat classes, it won't hurt to have a second team that specializes in professions.

The only hate you will get is from narrow-minded people. I like the concept of this. This would make every class truly unique and would actually make a proper economy. ATM any class can do anything and this makes professions more of an add-on rather than a role.

If would be cool to have it so you actually need farmers or you won't have any food. In order for a smith to make tool, he would need to buy ores from a Miner/Merchant. In order for an enchanter to work he would need to buy tools from a smith. It would provide a change to the economy where people need to interact and trade with each other.

I only see 2 problems with the idea:

• Certain professions will be less needed (Alchemist and Runesmith), but I could see this being fixed by giving them more worth while skills.
• People hate change. Some people don't like relying on others and want to do everything themselves (Which makes no sense in the concept of HC and Role-playing in general.)

 

[Jonsoon]

I might get a lot of hate for this. However, I saw someone posting that Professions should be more true. Only smiths can make weapons, only farmers can farm, only miners can mine, etc. I thought this was actually a good idea. This is supposed to be a hardcore rp server.

Actually on the topic of this thread. I believe a balance team for professions would be good. I know the balance team actually does both, but they need to focus on the combat classes, it won't hurt to have a second team that specializes in professions.

This is my dream. A key factor to a successful economy is to encourage trade. This is only obtainable through restriction mineable/farmable items. Currently only alchemists hold this trait since no other professions can create portions.

Hopefully in future updates we will be able to encourage trade beyond the current economy.

 

[Danda]

This is my dream. A key factor to a successful economy is to encourage trade. This is only obtainable through restriction mineable/farmable items. Currently only alchemists hold this trait since no other professions can create portions.

Hopefully in future updates we will be able to encourage trade beyond the current economy.

Runesmiths with Runestones?
Smiths with Repairing?
Merchants with Fortune Picks?

Though honestly IMO Runestones shouldn't be able to be recharged and break at 0 charges. Making them much more of a desired item also resulting in more trade

 

[Babibab]

Interesting how this post went from being about giving more attention to professions to what turn some would like the server to take.

Nevertheless, I'd like to point out again, and by citing a few discrepancy examples, that professions do actually need more peeps to take care of them ( What not to read in what I just said: No one is taking care of professions).

Examples:
- Food levels are unimportant, wether a food heals more or less doesn't matter. You can stay healthy by eating rotten flesh as much as you can by eating cooked steak. Why is this important? Because it basically makes the farmer and half the animals a farmer can spawn useless spacetakers, making that profession's hard and thankless leveling seem relatively harsh compared to his marketability, If I don't need actual, good, cooked food to sustain myself, then pigs and chickens stop being interesting. The only animals that make farmer a viable choice of a profession are cows for the leather and milk ( which are ressources of little value) and sheep for wool, and bats at level 60 for...oh wait bats are useless!
Let's face it. At level 55 a farmer gains the sell food skill, compared to the smith's 55 skill, Decon (of all armor and tools) which basically makes him an XP farm. (The smith gets a gold ingot from deconstructing a golden spade, a tool that is only crafted using a gold ingot as a ressource, oh yeah and two sticks.)

- Gold is still the xp gaining boss, the hiatus no one seems to want to address. It seems to me like that made sense in Bastion's time, when gold was money. Today, I really don't understand the sense in why every profession gains their maximum amount of XP from crafting an item that should be smith-dedicated! I mean, I leveled engineer by crafting gold plates, and found that crafting engineer dedicated items didn't even give me xp, when some of them used as much ressources as XP gaining ones => Redstone Rail = 6 gold ingots, 0 xp gained.

- Engineer, which was merged with mason, is essentially a builder class but does not gain xp from placing blocks. Whereas the mason did. It does not gain any xp from making any of it's proprietary skill blocks.

-Miner's 55 TNT skill is pretty much useless as a 55 skill because, tnt doesnt break blocks, so miners can't really use that for mining, and anyone can use it as defense or in traps because of dispensers, which can fire primed tnt and, after having been placed and hooked up to a button by an engi, can be used by anyone, disregarding of level.

...

We do both professions and classes .

All professions and classes have things that the others don't and if you're in a group of people who all have the same profession you'd be missing out.

Also think some idea of breaking into towns is on the docket (not 100% sure though)

I know that you guys do both today, and your second statement is unfortunately only true for classes. You don't even truly need a profession to get by in HC, all you need is to be able to fend for yourself and get a few souls for a lwc or region, which you can do just by having a Combat class.

It would help to have some more people looking into professions, sirdemonic was talking about how when you add a new skill it can change the whole game and so you have to be careful and not rush into things, I agree with him, I'm not saying "YO REDO EVRYTING TIS SUXX", what I'm asking for is simply that HC's balance staff would consider looking for new additions to help them with their workload. Right now, classes and combat are given attention, and even with all the balance changes and updates, there still is work in making every class work. To me today, professions are overlooked, and just the other day I was hearing a player say "Haven is all about PVP, that's all it's about". I'd hate to see him be right, because even though haven's backbone is surely made of player combat, I know that it's driving forces lay in it's economy and town opposition, which all work through professions.

Bab

 

[LightningCape]

You don't even truly need a profession to get by in HC

This is true I will say.

 

[Shanok576]

I might get a lot of hate for this. However, I saw someone posting that Professions should be more true. Only smiths can make weapons, only farmers can farm, only miners can mine, etc. I thought this was actually a good idea. This is supposed to be a hardcore rp server.

Actually on the topic of this thread. I believe a balance team for professions would be good. I know the balance team actually does both, but they need to focus on the combat classes, it won't hurt to have a second team that specializes in professions.

I simply love this idea. Because right now, merchant can just go mine and sell their stuff, nothing special about it, so what do miners get? Not much, and merchant can even sell a bunch of other items. Also some people might not like this, but as you said, this is supposed to be a "hardcore" server, so I think when you put it that way, it makes alot of sense.

As Jonsoon said too, this would make the economy more versatile (?), say some ressources are getting hard to find, they'll fetch a higher price and such. And since only the miner would mine, the merchant would have to buy it of the miner and then sell it, making just a bit of profit and the miner makes some profit too!