[Skill] Jump tweaks

[Iarbobray]

inb4 lock
(do a midnight lock!)
first lock of new year?

 

[GraRona]

YOU ARE SO TROLLING GIRLLLL. I didn't read a word you said

@Dielan9999 I don't see why Shadow can't post it seeing how Ethan and Megan openly offended him without hesitation.

 

[Dielan9999]

Fix'd

 

[MeganPerk]

@Dielan9999 I don't see why Shadow can't post it seeing how Ethan and Megan openly offended him without hesitation.

sometimes the truth hurts... xP

I openly said there were people who were dragoon for nothing more than jump and didnt know how to play the spec, but i left names out. After a name is mentioned, why try to keep something a secret that isnt anymore?

 

[EvilThor]

No class should be able to spam a skill neither Dragoon. the reason no class should not spam a skill cause should have to high mana cost, have cooldown/warmup or require an item you don't find everywhere. That is my opinion I don't say that certain class should be nerfed, but you should atleast not be able to spam the same skill multiple times iver a short time. People should have to think before do a skill.

 

[look_out]

How about you just move the level you have to be for dragoon jump higher like level 30-40ish, so not dragoon will have it only the determined will have the skill. I saw a lot of low level dragoons that just got level ten and just stayed their the whole map just because jump was the only thing they wanted. For a skill that is that useful it should require for work to achieve. Like Wizard's teleport is level 30 and 35. Their most useful skill out side pvp.

If not that leave it how it is. Because,
Who gives a shit weather they spam it, its their main skill let them use it how they like. That is like making Fireball cost 40 mana which would make Wizards useless halfway through the fight.

 

[Acherous]

Looks like I need to chip in here.

First off, above all else, the difficulty of the fight depends less on the power of the class and more on the skill of the opponent. Case in point, as a mid-30s Dragoon, I took on and beat a 50 Dragoon and a 50 Ninja simultaneously because I knew how to fight each class, and how to use the terrain that was available to me. Also, ShadoWall555 is a terrible Dragoon, so that had something to do with it.

Dragoons are in an interesting position. We're very much a specialized class, moreso than the other warrior classes. Paladins can soak up insane amounts of damage, but have Soulfire, and can revive. They also do moderate damage when up close. Dreadknights have a variety of skills available that make them more versatile overall than just doing damage, which they have a solid ability to do. Their DoT can make the difference between a win and a loss, and their defensive ability allows them to stick around in a fight, becoming very valuable to group fights. Samurai have the ability to kick out damage and still be able to survive getting knocked around, and also have a DoT.

Dragoons, on the other hand, are a utility class. Honestly, a good Dragoon is the cheapest warrior class to play by far, as our weapons only need one material, we only have one piece of diamond armor (leggings instead of chest), and we have the ability to disengage to preserve our stuff. In combat, our entire class is built around mobility. In combat, jumping is a good way to start a fight (especially if Quake gets implemented properly), but isn't my first choice, as it burns up mana that could be used for a disarm. I only use this if going against a caster or a ranger. The reasoning for this is simple: We have no ranged offense or defense. We get Impale, which lets us hit about four squares away, and slows a target. That's our only offensive ability, and it only hits for 14, with a mana cost that takes away a jump opportunity. We hit for seven damage, which is more than Paladins and Dreadknights, but we have no other offensive capabilities, so it's difficult for us to bring a high defense target down.

The combat dynamic for a Dragoon is very similar to that of a caster: A Dragoon that runs out of mana is fucked, and we don't have consume. Everything we do requires mana. Jump (Superjump even moreso) costs mana. Disarm costs mana. Impale costs mana. Charge and cleave are irrelevant. Basically, you have 100 mana, which gives you roughly six ability uses (counting in fight recharge). That's a rough balancing act, especially against ranged classes. Against a ranged class, you HAVE to close the gap, so that means at least one jump, often two (with three seconds in between), and an impale to keep them close. Beat on them as much as you can, and if they're not dead when you're done, retreat to recover mana and then re-engage. This, of course, all relies on not getting slowed down, rooted, or DoTed, and every class has at least one of those abilities in some form. If one of those happen, you're in trouble. Dragoons take time to kill their targets. Our mobility is what allows us to keep our opponents close enough for long enough to do so. Without that, we have all the offensive ability of crafters. Other classes balance their mana between damage and utility. We balance mana on staying mobile long enough to survive the fight, even if that means we have to retreat, recover, and re-engage.

In conclusion, Jump is far from just something extra given to a class that can stand on its own. Jump, and our mobility, are the core of our class. If you played our class, you'd see that. If you're getting your ass handed to you by Dragoons, study and use the abilities of your class to counter them, not tell us what needs nerfed with ours.

Love you too babe <3333

 

[c12095]

How about we don't touch the skill seeing as all these suggestions have in the past been suggested and turned down by Kainzo, ex being Safefall skill for dragoons. They tried turning off the passive safefall and ended up with there being a total of about 5 dragoons total on the server(Back when the server was running full cap players). The skill isn't exactly a game breaker here and theres no need to change a skill because its a pet peeve that its able to be spammed. If people want to play Dragoons let them, I will admit there are some really shitty bad dragoons out there, but if its what they enjoy, then why take that away from them? Its harming no one that there is a larger amount of dragoons then there were in the past. I for one will not be joining the dragoon craze in the next update, so count one less.

 

[Texteo]

Jump is fine. It provides movement and that's it. The only time jumping is defensive is when you jump away from a bladegrasped samurai or an invisible ninja. Other than that it is running away from a fight, which means the fight is already won for you. The only time jumping is offensive is when they are chasing down a running person which also means the fight is already won, but this time it is won for the dragoon already.

If you are getting surprise attacked by a dragoon then you have no situational awareness and position yourself poorly in a pvp environment. Mistakes are meant to be punished as you say, and not noticing the dragoon positioning himself is a mistake and you get punished. When a dragoon misses his jump he is punished by losing mana. When a dragoon mistimes his jump he gets punished by taking fall damage.

Dragoons are not powerful because of jump, they are powerful because of impale and their tankyness. Jump is the skill that defines dragoons and it does its job well. The reason it is so much better than safefall is because safefall is just an addition to a spec while jump is the essentially the entire spec itself.

Hahahaha I was gonna comment but when I saw what you said you basically took the words out of my mouth (even the example for the jump xD). Really who need a warmup time to jump >.> . Also Impale isnt that helpfull (except for slow effect) because damage is same as normal attack.
To megan:
Jump takes 15 or 25 mana which seems like nothing but actually is since then you can use it only 5 times 6 at most and you WILL fail atleast once due to lag. Note that I mastered and played dragoon longest and I spot all kinds of bad habbits on each class. Dragoons shouldn't be nerfed but actually stay as they are. Take a note that warrior is a tank class and thats what dragoons do. They can take damage aswell as deal a bit more than other 2 classes in the path (not including samurai). Dragoons are unique because of the jump and removing safefall ability is also a bad idea. Doing so there will be no reason to use jump as it can send you flying few blocks in the air and each block fall dmg is 10 hp which would take dragoons atleast 20 hp due to falling. This is a disadvantage from your own skill which beats the purpose they make. And if you look at other skills they aren't effective and take quite a lot of mana on the class but thats another story.

 

[madsplatter]

I am a dragoon BECAUSE OF jump. I am not afraid to admit it, and it doesn't make me a noob. Jump simply put, is pretty damn fun. Everytime I try another class I miss jump, it is great for navigating terrain, charging into fights, flanking the enemy, and running from a mismatched game. I feel like jump would be worthless with a warmup. A lot of my jumps involve jumping from a high place, then right before I hit the ground jumping. With a warmup, it would make these nearly impossible to pull off. Dragoons don't have much special going for them, they have a mediocre damage weapon, some iron armor, and then their only other unique skill is impale. Jump adds a whole new level of diversity to dragoon, and jump is what sets dragoon apart. Sure, people spam jump all the time. But spamming jump doesn't get you anywhere. You can only jump 6 times, with a 3 second cooldown before you are out of mana, and have no other way to fend off attackers. Only someone foolish wouldn't keep an eye on their mana and waste it all on jump, but spamming jump won't help you in a fight. Jump is perfectly balanced imo, there's no reason to change it.

 

[Jorict]

Without the Jump skill as it is, dragoons wouldn't be dragoons. They would be far to easy to fight, and would lack an escape mechanism. Jump would be useless if it had a warm up. They could easily get away by the time you cast it, or interrupt you before you get away. Stupid. Leave it as it is, don't change it. Learn to counter it, don't complain because it's unfair. It's not.

That's my input.

 

[MeganPerk]

Without the Jump skill as it is, dragoons wouldn't be dragoons. They would be far to easy to fight, and would lack an escape mechanism. Jump would be useless if it had a warm up. They could easily get away by the time you cast it, or interrupt you before you get away. Stupid. Leave it as it is, don't change it. Learn to counter it, don't complain because it's unfair. It's not.

That's my input.

never said it was unfair... i just dont like how everyone and their dog is one class because of one skill. I would think that with dragoons getting quake that more dragoons would love the idea of half fall damage to do more damage to enemies, but apparently people only like jump just to jump and scale terrain

 

[Jorict]

What about rangers? They were deemed "OP", and a lot of people used that to their advantage, and a lot of people went ranger. On top of that, a lot of people aren't dragoons, and a lot of people who are aren't that skilled. The good dragoons are the ones that are tough, but isn't any class with a skilled player? And what do you have against having fun climbing? Roll dragoon if it's such a big deal to you. Thanks.

 

[MeganPerk]

What about rangers? They were deemed "OP", and a lot of people used that to their advantage, and a lot of people went ranger. On top of that, a lot of people aren't dragoons, and a lot of people who are aren't that skilled. The good dragoons are the ones that are tough, but isn't any class with a skilled player? And what do you have against having fun climbing? Roll dragoon if it's such a big deal to you. Thanks.

Once again... I never said dragoons were OP... this thread is not about dragoons being OP... This thread is about making jump less of a skill people spam for all situations and more of a skill that players have to think about using before using them like other skills. I think that all skills could be improved, including jump.

If you are only here to tell me how non-OP dragoons are, leave the thread because you have no idea what the thread is talking about. @jeoff

If you are here to talk about how we can make jump more fun and challenging so that everyone doesnt just make a dragoon because they jump for every occasion, yet make the skill viable and valuable to keep the dragoon flare, then thank you for your input.

 

[Jorict]

No, I'm not saying they are OP. I said people chose ranger because it was OP countering that every is dragoon. I never said dragoon is OP, and dragoon would be useless without it's spammable jump. It doesn't need improvement, it's fine how it is. I think more people would complain if it did change, just making more trouble.

You still have to think before you use it(at least the skilled players do), because if you don't, you are going to end up running into a wall or something, and getting killed. It still requires cerebral functioning to be able to play a dragoon, not just clicking hoping you will do something. If that skill is changed, dragoon is not the class it's supposed to be. It's just like any other warrior, with a less unique ability, and far easier to counter.

Fights aren't supposed to be given to you.

 

[Oxea]

lol was there that much of a Dragoon influx? I remember when I was playing a while ago (June through September) people chose Dragoon for strategic purposes in terms of their town or guilds needing their respective skills for pvping etc especially during raids. They'd be (if applicable) the first one in the town opening the gates etc. for the others.

I do recall though towards the end of my HC period, people speccing into Dragoons more due to the unfortunate notoriety (in context to what Megan is saying) such pvpers and raiders gave the Dragoon class; I was one of them.

 

[malmenca]

If you are here to talk about how we can make jump more fun and challenging so that everyone doesnt just make a dragoon because they jump for every occasion, yet make the skill viable and valuable to keep the dragoon flare, then thank you for your input.

It is that way now. You want to make it less viable and valuable so as to seemingly reduce "Dragoon Flare"

 

[Dazureus]

*Flair

Jump is already fun and valuable, perhaps mostly because it isn't challenging to use (I press C), but it takes skill to make it do anything constructive.

Dragoons find lots of opportunities to use Jump, it's true. Why? It's a jump. I'm sure you jump a lot in Minecraft. Imagine jumping higher. You see?

 

[malmenca]

Hey man I put the quotes, not my spelling

 

[Dazureus]

Hey man I put the quotes, not my spelling

I know. It's just one of those words. to/two/too and all that.

On that subject, a Flare skill for Dragoons? Heck yes.