Server Cash Confusion

[Tsunamis_Espira]

To any and all Staff of Herocraft,

Generally there is a large problem with the money trade system on your server. While it does work it needs to explained or streamlined at least a little simpler. While veteran players know the system, new ones to your server do not have that luxury. I can offer my opinion on possible fixes to this issue after I describe the event and how it is seen from a players perspective. I for one have been a server owner of a very large server but will not divulge that into the issue except to show I have experience on what does and doesn't confuse players.

First it would help you to know why this is so confusing. Many of the functions on this server run on a live economy of which almost all servers depend on. While it does function correctly after 2 hours of confusion, it needs to tweaked from what I experienced. I spent my first 30 minutes trying to get to the server spawn (btw a 3 hour timer on that is very extreme even though I know It deters some issues / this will be a discussion at a later date) By the time my timer had worn off again I was finally able to go to the spawn. I spent a good 30 minutes asking players and staff where the merchants for cash were (some staff btw told me to get out of the help area / Rude). Here lies in the problem at its heart - People see the signs they think they are selling their souls for junk they neither want or understand. I walked around for a good hour till Kainzo Teleported me to them. Since it was clear this was the spot I had to chance it and click a sigh to see what happened, I should not have to feel a dread when exchanging items. In my personal opinion it should be clear and precise as to what a player is doing and what is the return. I was satisfied with it working after I figured out the process, but again I say this was entirely to long to learn how to use the most basic functions of the economy.

Keep in mind that a large amount of functions in game require server cash (Heroes class change, Towns, Trades, Etc.) It is when people hit this money need they will either endure the issue or quit.

This is the wiki word for word on economy....

Money and the economy
You will need money, in the form of souls, for changing your classes and also for paying taxes if you join a town, or for your own residence if you choose to set one up. Soul shards and fragments are currency items which you can sell at server chests shops near spawn on both maps to gain money in your personal bank (At the Exchange). Currency items are dropped occasionally while mining ores, killing mobs, and farming some crops. You can spend money at player-made shops around the map - at the Trade District at spawn and informal trade areas outside spawn, near graveyards, and in towns. Trades directly between players can be arranged in trade chat.
Problem here it says nothing about the signs themselves... That's the biggest problem. It needs some form of description on look for a shard etc. that is titled and has the appearance if a MC item and click the sign. (it would also help to know the current exchange rate on the sign) The wiki needs to share this information better.

As far as the signs upon joining the server it makes it sound rather simply, well till you actually try to practice the method it is.

I fear I am writing a Novel here so I will leave it with just the fore mentioned problem. It is in my opinion that the following arguments may or could be used to help streamline this problem. I know the last thing you want to do is kill off new players joining the server over something as simple as economy use. God knows we people who work as admins and staff have enough issues with coding , plugins, tweaks, building, griefing, advertising, and etc. etc. This is why staff will find simple things like this ignorable as was I during my first run through on the server in its new state when I put out the request for help.

Suggested but not well thought out ideas:

- Rewrite wiki with key words and signs usage as well
- Signage on server grounds that explains use of signs and happens
- NPC walk past speech aka citizens stuff.
- Add a sign over the chest shops saying theses are trade for server currency.
- Add to the signs a proper wording that helps seal confidence in their use.
- Wiki new player guide should have a better description of zones and what each is for
- Create links within the wiki to zones a little more
- Add server broadcast message "trade souls at the exchange for cash by clicking matching MC id's"

I know its rough running a server and well aware of the headaches of doing such. I would implore you all to understand that this is one of those things that will kill off new players. Remember you truly do have only one chance to make a first impression. I love the work on the server but this issue was over the top extremely confusing. Again I say it works but a lot of other players on the server also could not figure it out.

I do thank you all for your time and please feel free to critic my ideas for that is all they are is fast written thoughts.

Tsunamis_Espira

 

[Jonsoon]

Never really thought this was a problem before. I will be home soon and add a notice board in the exchange explaining the shops in detail.

@WitchOnaRampage let's figure out some info that we can add to the wiki to make it more clear.
As well, can you check the hero book to make sure that the soul exchange is explained? I cannot remember since I only read it once.

 

[Kainzo]

To any and all Staff of Herocraft,

Generally there is a large problem with the money trade system on your server. While it does work it needs to explained or streamlined at least a little simpler. While veteran players know the system, new ones to your server do not have that luxury. I can offer my opinion on possible fixes to this issue after I describe the event and how it is seen from a players perspective. I for one have been a server owner of a very large server but will not divulge that into the issue except to show I have experience on what does and doesn't confuse players.

First it would help you to know why this is so confusing. Many of the functions on this server run on a live economy of which almost all servers depend on. While it does function correctly after 2 hours of confusion, it needs to tweaked from what I experienced. I spent my first 30 minutes trying to get to the server spawn (btw a 3 hour timer on that is very extreme even though I know It deters some issues / this will be a discussion at a later date) By the time my timer had worn off again I was finally able to go to the spawn. I spent a good 30 minutes asking players and staff where the merchants for cash were (some staff btw told me to get out of the help area / Rude). Here lies in the problem at its heart - People see the signs they think they are selling their souls for junk they neither want or understand. I walked around for a good hour till Kainzo Teleported me to them. Since it was clear this was the spot I had to chance it and click a sigh to see what happened, I should not have to feel a dread when exchanging items. In my personal opinion it should be clear and precise as to what a player is doing and what is the return. I was satisfied with it working after I figured out the process, but again I say this was entirely to long to learn how to use the most basic functions of the economy.

Keep in mind that a large amount of functions in game require server cash (Heroes class change, Towns, Trades, Etc.) It is when people hit this money need they will either endure the issue or quit.

This is the wiki word for word on economy....

Money and the economy
You will need money, in the form of souls, for changing your classes and also for paying taxes if you join a town, or for your own residence if you choose to set one up. Soul shards and fragments are currency items which you can sell at server chests shops near spawn on both maps to gain money in your personal bank (At the Exchange). Currency items are dropped occasionally while mining ores, killing mobs, and farming some crops. You can spend money at player-made shops around the map - at the Trade District at spawn and informal trade areas outside spawn, near graveyards, and in towns. Trades directly between players can be arranged in trade chat.
Problem here it says nothing about the signs themselves... That's the biggest problem. It needs some form of description on look for a shard etc. that is titled and has the appearance if a MC item and click the sign. (it would also help to know the current exchange rate on the sign) The wiki needs to share this information better.

As far as the signs upon joining the server it makes it sound rather simply, well till you actually try to practice the method it is.

I fear I am writing a Novel here so I will leave it with just the fore mentioned problem. It is in my opinion that the following arguments may or could be used to help streamline this problem. I know the last thing you want to do is kill off new players joining the server over something as simple as economy use. God knows we people who work as admins and staff have enough issues with coding , plugins, tweaks, building, griefing, advertising, and etc. etc. This is why staff will find simple things like this ignorable as was I during my first run through on the server in its new state when I put out the request for help.

Suggested but not well thought out ideas:

- Rewrite wiki with key words and signs usage as well
- Signage on server grounds that explains use of signs and happens
- NPC walk past speech aka citizens stuff.
- Add a sign over the chest shops saying theses are trade for server currency.
- Add to the signs a proper wording that helps seal confidence in their use.
- Wiki new player guide should have a better description of zones and what each is for
- Create links within the wiki to zones a little more
- Add server broadcast message "trade souls at the exchange for cash by clicking matching MC id's"

I know its rough running a server and well aware of the headaches of doing such. I would implore you all to understand that this is one of those things that will kill off new players. Remember you truly do have only one chance to make a first impression. I love the work on the server but this issue was over the top extremely confusing. Again I say it works but a lot of other players on the server also could not figure it out.

I do thank you all for your time and please feel free to critic my ideas for that is all they are is fast written thoughts.

Tsunamis_Espira

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We've had this system in place for a long time (well use of Chestshop) so it's hard to see it from a new perspective - @Admins / @Moderators lets get this going when we can, a lot of good ideas.

 

[Clawscript]

@Ahrall have you done a video about the money system? If not then it looks like it'd help certain people

 

[Tsunamis_Espira]

Thanks for reading my write up guys, I only wish to help you be ahead of an issue rather later. Like I said they are just ideas and by no means do they have to be implemented. I haven't used chest shop for a while but I do remember how it works (sadly every servers signs read differently - it seems ). Its not real serious unless you deem it so.

Anyways thanks yet again Tsunamis_espira

P.S. My hat is off to you Kainzo and your team... My server lasted two years using your plugin exclusively.

 

[Jonsoon]

Thanks for reading my write up guys, I only wish to help you be ahead of an issue rather later. Like I said they are just ideas and by no means do they have to be implemented. I haven't used chest shop for a while but I do remember how it works (sadly every servers signs read differently - it seems ). Its not real serious unless you deem it so.

Anyways thanks yet again Tsunamis_espira

P.S. My hat is off to you Kainzo and your team... My server lasted two years using your plugin exclusively.

I have briefly added some signs into the Exchange are teaching how to sell to the shop. I will be able to make something more fancy later in the week as I am going to be working/out of town, unless another @Moderators wants to fix it up.

Herocraft is definitely a one of a kind server, and we want to make sure players are able to immerse themselves with ease.

 

[Danda]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We've had this system in place for a long time (well use of Chestshop) so it's hard to see it from a new perspective - [USERGROUP=9]@Admins[/USERGROUP] / [USERGROUP=12]@Moderators[/USERGROUP] lets get this going when we can, a lot of good ideas.

As Kainzo said it's not that it's something we ignore it's that it's one of those things that we've grown so accustom to it that it becomes difficult to think of from a perspective of someone that knows nothing of our systems.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

It's always very useful to see things from the users' perspective! I'll add your suggestions to the wiki to-do list (please forgive me ) but I'd like to add a little explanation here too.

This is the wiki word for word on economy....

Money and the economy
You will need money, in the form of souls, for changing your classes and also for paying taxes if you join a town, or for your own residence if you choose to set one up. Soul shards and fragments are currency items which you can sell at server chests shops near spawn on both maps to gain money in your personal bank (At the Exchange). Currency items are dropped occasionally while mining ores, killing mobs, and farming some crops. You can spend money at player-made shops around the map - at the Trade District at spawn and informal trade areas outside spawn, near graveyards, and in towns. Trades directly between players can be arranged in trade chat.

This quote is not from the wiki's Money/Souls page but is from the Getting Started guide (THANK YOU for reading it! ) As is mentioned at the top of the Getting Started guide, a key intent of the guide is to teach players how to find their way around the Wiki by linking them to more detailed pages. The links in this section take you to the more detailed page on the economy (which, I agree, could definitely do with expansion).

@Tsunamis_Espira , if you would check those links and comment on the content there, I would appreciate it thanks.

Suggested but not well thought out ideas:

- Wiki new player guide should have a better description of zones and what each is for
- Create links within the wiki to zones a little more

I'm not clear here what you mean by "zones". Are you referring to the maps, ie Sanctuary, Aegis, Central Landing? If so, that info is being developed on the Getting Around the Maps page.

Also buying and selling from Chest shops is covered on the How to Make a Chest Shop page, which is linked onto every class page that can create chest shops, but yeah, the info needs to be more visible for new players when they first tackle the shops at the Exchange.

 

[Tsunamis_Espira]

I checked most of the links in the wiki and they do work rather well. Unlike most wiki's this one includes pictures. Wiki needs only a little work as to wording only , not the substance. The noobie guide is good but misses the key points on importance of cash in all of the server. AKA classes require cash etc. etc. Nevertheless id say the wiki needs only tweaks and still by in large is one of the best for a server in minecraft I have seen in a long time.

As far as the mention on zones .. I'm just generalizing here.. what I may have better said was areas. Sometimes the trying to get the orientation of a large server can be vexing. I would only suggest some additional server signs to address noobs like me . However I loved the starting area and this in itself could probably be the best place to teach players about the economy. It does a fantastic job on working a player into heroes and would make an excellent area to add a item too.

Best ragards, Tsunamis_Espira

 

[Tsunamis_Espira]

I saw the signs and they do help a great deal once looked at .. I know they are only a temp fix but they show promise as to directly removing server cash confusion. Good job on these, your friend at large Tsunamis_espira

 

[Tsunamis_Espira]

Today I experienced 3 players asking the very same thing I discussed in the above initial posting. They were generally spamming the help chat with the issue of money trade. I used an old Admin trick and copy pasted instructions - all three times and got thanks for the effort. It does seem to be a bigger problem than even I had thought... but all is well if we.. never mind I'm not staff (old habit) - if you all copy past much the same till permanent remedies are in place.

I will continue to help people should the question be posed, You friend Tsunamis_espira

 

[Kainzo]

Today I experienced 3 players asking the very same thing I discussed in the above initial posting. They were generally spamming the help chat with the issue of money trade. I used an old Admin trick and copy pasted instructions - all three times and got thanks for the effort. It does seem to be a bigger problem than even I had thought... but all is well if we.. never mind I'm not staff (old habit) - if you all copy past much the same till permanent remedies are in place.

I will continue to help people should the question be posed, You friend Tsunamis_espira

You should take it upon yourself to make a tutorial with holograms and quest NPCs to explain everything that you had issues with

 

[Tsunamis_Espira]

Very tempting my friend, I could very well do that .. I will throw a good effort into one. I will give it a whack on my home based server and see what I can develop for fun. Just Pm me the plugins you want to see used and ill work within those parameters. I had thought the Tutorial area would be excellent place to do such a thing. I will mimic it somewhat and share what I come up with *shrug. Simple is always better and I have time to play around with such matters till I begin instructing students again at my college.

Thanks, Tsunamis_espira

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I've updated the Money page in the wiki with info on using the chest shops.

@Guides and others helping newbies: I strongly suggest that after an initial intro to souls when answering questions you link new players to this page for more info: hc.to/money

 

[LordZelkova]

I've updated the Money page in the wiki with info on using the chest shops.

[USERGROUP=35]@Guides[/USERGROUP] and others helping newbies: I strongly suggest that after an initial intro to souls when answering questions you link new players to this page for more info: hc.to/money

Have you considered adding something about the tax on selling shards? I know I was confused the first time I saw that this map. Newer players might just be confused why they aren't getting their full value.