Suggestion runeblade buff

[mikehk]

I talked about this in O chat a bit, but I think that runeblade's could use a bit of a buff. I propose rune stacking!

so say you have 3 applications of toxicrune on your sword. you walk up to seomthing and hit it, dealing (lets say the runeblade has 30 intelligence) 90 damage over 12 seconds, so doing around 22.5 damage per tick (said around cus of small amount negated by constitution, but currently almost negligible). So when you hit with the second rune (within 3 seconds of applying the first one) it will refresh the duration, and add 80% damage of what it would be normally. so now it's dealing 40 damage per tick, instead of just refreshing the duration. apply the third, and it's 80% of the second one, so 54.4 damage every 3 seconds instead of just refreshing durations. total it will be 217.6 damage over 12 seconds with 3 applications.

another stacking thing would be icerune. idk how it is currently, (couldnt test on test server ) maybe have it start with slowness 1, slowness 2, slowness 3, with a small increase of duration, IE 1 second on 3rd application, .5 seconds on second application. of course these would have to be within 1.5 seconds or so within each other to not extend duration considerably.

and finally voidrune, lasts only 1.5 seconds. make each application stack on the previous. 1st app: 1.5 seconds, 2nd app, 2.25 seconds, 3rd app, 3 seconds. honestly, i dont see this being too big. other classes have kick which silences for 2.5 seconds and does 67 or so damage. the runeblade has to use all 3 of his runes to get to be above that.

any 4th applications would just refresh duration of 3rd application.

thoughts?

EDIT: wow, rereading that makes it look OP as shit, anyone mind redoing numbers for me? im tired wanna go to sleep.

 

[ShadowRavynn]

I would like to see rune blade get the ability to use a basic bow or SOME kind of a ranged ability...

 

[Terisye]

These changes are not too unreasonable in my opinion. I also feel that the class strugles in pvp unless you can lock onto a target and juggle them. A much needed buff in their runes is needed though after playing them a runeblade myself for a bit against a wide array of classes. An ability I was thinking of would let them do damage from another source other than their auto attack and duskblade. The main point is that the class is too linear right now. These are all ideas and I hope you take any kind of buff if none of mine or Mikehk's ideas. Thank you

-I think you could replace blink with blinking slash; 5 square line attack that does X phys dmg (+X str point ) and you would appear at the end of it as if it was blink normally ( this would also activate a rune just as if duskblade would on use ).

-Duskblade should be stackable 3 times on one target, this de-buff lasts for 15 secs scaling would be 60/120/180%

-Telekinesis is not really worth it on a class that is mastering a sword. This could maybe be replaced by a different utility skill or higher base starting stats.

-I also do not see why this class does not have disarm or at least some kind of skill to prevent it. Maybe if they have an iron fence in their inventory they can negate disarms. Every time they would get disarmed they would lose X amount of iron fence.

PS: I could also make up a template for scaling of abilities and stat adjustments, because I do feel that because of how strait forward the class works that they should not be so stat penalized.

 

[jazza411]

Why not just nerf the op ones to bring everything back into perspective?

 

[malikdanab]

Why not just nerf the op ones to bring everything back into perspective?

Even then, Runeblade is sadly an underwhelming class. Runeblade is a weird Mage Assassin (Assassin Mage?) that is ment to be able to take out a single target with ease. With that said, I have a couple ideas on how to make Runeblade better.

If you haven't noticed already, Runeblade is heavily influenced by the game Dishonored. And a perfect skill I would think Runeblade should have is "Shadow Step." Combined with flicker/blink, this would make Runeblade more mobile and would allow it to teleport around confusing the opponent.

I agree with the simplicity of runeblade. Even with runes, it's mostly you just left clicking all day. In the case of stacking runes it's mainly a coding issue. It maybe possible, but currently there's no way to make the runes scale in strength after subsequent use. Since I don't believe that you can make runes "Stack," the runes need to be buffed:

Icerune- Increase slow from 2.0 sec -> 2.5 sec
Voidrune: Increase silence from 1.5 sec -> 2.5 sec (In line with kick)
Toxicrune: (Damage every 3 seconds over 13 seconds) -> (Damage every 3 seconds over 9 seconds)
Firerune: Increase base damage slightly

I was thinking of the concept of a "discharge" skill. It would be a toggle-able skill that makes every rune used, cause an explosion. When the skill is active, you will use extra mana when ever you use a rune. The explosion would do a portion of the damage in an AOE and inflicting any CC effects of the rune. The explosion wouldn't deal any extra damage to the main target. I'm thinking somewhere along the line of (35% + 0.65 INT) for the damage of the rune and a static 1/2 the duration of the CC effect. For example-

(I'm assuming the user has 35 INT)
Firerune: [ (40 + 1.25 INT) * (0.35 + 0.0065 INT) ]
83.75 * 0.5775 = 48 AOE damage.

Lastly, to synergy with it's "Anit-Mage" nature and better allow you to keep discharge up, I suggest a passive mana drain. This would cause every hit by a runeblade to drain the mana from the target and give the mana to the runeblade.

These are just my $0.02 as a previous runeblade player

 

[jazza411]

How about a skill which lunges at the player but sacrifices the runes on the weapon?

 

[mikehk]

How about a skill which lunges at the player but sacrifices the runes on the weapon?

just blink?

 

[malikdanab]

How about a skill which lunges at the player but sacrifices the runes on the weapon?

I don't see the point of this. With blink and my suggested shadowstep, a runeblade would already have enough mobility.

 

[jazza411]

Just a suggestion it is better to pick from multiple options :3

 

[malikdanab]

Just a suggestion it is better to pick from multiple options :3

So it would be a lunge-esque skill that applies a rune? While it is an option, I feel like shadowstep would be more lore appropriate and can pull of some crazy combos with flicker (since it's a teleport)

 

[ShadowRavynn]

I like these suggestions and hope that the runeblade can be fixed up some. Its a fun class to play in pve, but not in pvp LOL as stated above, its mobility suxorz.

 

[malikdanab]

Who though giving Runeblade -5 agility? Like really...a rogue with NEGATIVE agility.

I was also thinking, what if you reduced the range and cooldown on blink. Instead of (4 + 0.1) blocks every 10 seconds, how about (3+0.05) every 4 second, while keeping the mana cost high at 200.

At 30 INT that's:

• Old Blink: 7 blocks every 10 seconds
• New Blink: 4.5 blocks every 4 seconds

This would allow it to juke very effectively. Since the mana is still high, it would require you to use your mana drain/devour magic to keep it up. It's just a spur of the moment thought though. It may (Probably is) be a stupid idea

 

[malikdanab]

Here a more conceptual list to why I think runeblade is doing bad:

• Pure melee class with only short range skills

(Self explanatory)

• Low amount of skills

Here's the thing, runeblade is based off constantly rotating skills. The problem with that is that runeblade only has 10 combat abilities. Compared to other classes (most have 13+) there comes to a point where the runeblade has nothing to do. A runeblade can't rely on his sword when he's on cooldowns due to his squishiness.

• No AOE skills.

While there are exceptions (I'm looking at you ninja....) AOEs are a must when it comes to team fights. While this would be fine if Runeblade had high burst, it doesn't. Now don't get me wrong. Runeblade has very high DPS, but it's burst isn't that high for a rogue. Since DPS requires you to constantly stay on your target, it's hard for Runeblade to survive due to it's previously stated squishyness.

 

[mikehk]

I was also thinking, what if you reduced the range and cooldown on blink. Instead of (4 + 0.1) blocks every 10 seconds, how about (3+0.05) every 4 second, while keeping the mana cost high at 200.

At 30 INT that's:

• Old Blink: 7 blocks every 10 seconds
• New Blink: 4.5 blocks every 4 seconds

nuu! one thing that kept me runeblade for as long as i did was playing with blink

No AOE skills.
While there are exceptions (I'm looking at you ninja....) AOEs are a must when it comes to team fights. While this would be fine if Runeblade had high burst, it doesn't. Now don't get me wrong. Runeblade has very high DPS, but it's burst isn't that high for a rogue. Since DPS requires you to constantly stay on your target, it's hard for Runeblade to survive due to it's previously stated squishyness.

what if it could have something similiar to tremor. the way i've always pictured tremor happening is something similiar to your signature. but as the runeblade, it does an AoE based on the current runes (it will consume all of them).
Toxic: targets in a 3+(0.1 per strength) radius are struck with poisoned shrapnel from the blast. it gives a DoT, and the more toxic runes (rune stacking) etc etc (damage effected at about 50+(1 per intellect)% of single target damage) purple fireworks!

Ice: targets in a 3+(0.1 per strength) radius are struck with frozen shrapnel from the blast. gives slowness based on how many ice runes u consumed. light blue fireworks!

Fire: targets in a 3+(ok u get it now) radius are struck with singing shrapnel from the blast. does damage equal to 50+(1 per intellect)% of single hit damage red fireworks! more damage based on how many runes consumed

Void: targets in (the radius) are struck with particles of darkness from the blast. damage 50(1 per int)% of single target damage. they are silenced for (60+(1 per charisma)% of the single target duration. more runes consumed (rune stacking) etc etc.

 

[malikdanab]

nuu! one thing that kept me runeblade for as long as i did was playing with blink

what if it could have something similiar to tremor. the way i've always pictured tremor happening is something similiar to your signature. but as the runeblade, it does an AoE based on the current runes (it will consume all of them).
Toxic: targets in a 3+(0.1 per strength) radius are struck with poisoned shrapnel from the blast. it gives a DoT, and the more toxic runes (rune stacking) etc etc (damage effected at about 50+(1 per intellect)% of single target damage) purple fireworks!

Ice: targets in a 3+(0.1 per strength) radius are struck with frozen shrapnel from the blast. gives slowness based on how many ice runes u consumed. light blue fireworks!

Fire: targets in a 3+(ok u get it now) radius are struck with singing shrapnel from the blast. does damage equal to 50+(1 per intellect)% of single hit damage red fireworks! more damage based on how many runes consumed

Void: targets in (the radius) are struck with particles of darkness from the blast. damage 50(1 per int)% of single target damage. they are silenced for (60+(1 per charisma)% of the single target duration. more runes consumed (rune stacking) etc etc.

I never said to remove blink.....

The only real difference between my idea and yours is the AOE originates against the target with mine and the user with yours. Either way, it would add some much needed AOE potential.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I think many of you are forgetting the horrors of Runeblade in PvP early this map. It quickly got overshadowed by Ninja, but I would put it's damage in about the same ballpark, with more defense to boot. It was easily able to 1v1 any class it got the jump on, and could sustain itself pretty damn well. The primary nerf that was dealt to the class was their equipment weight, not their damage.

They still are a very powerful presence in a 1v1 fight, but it's indeed true that they are quite squishy now (which was intended).

Changing blink or adding in more teleports is not going to improve the class, and I would advice against it. An AoE would help them yes, but it was intentional that the dps rogue types receive little to no AoE capabilities. Ranger only has one because of it's very weak teamfight presence. Adding a minor AoE to Runeblade could work out, but I could also see it tipping them over the edge of too strong. It all depends on what you give em I guess. I would be lying if I said I didn't miss old Runeblade firewave.

As far as the stacking runes suggestion goes, that is against the very idea behind the way the rune skills were designed, and changing it would require re-coding the entire skillset.

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I'd honestly like to see how the higher skilled PvPers do with Runeblade, as I really am not convinced it's as weak as people make it out to be. The numbers on the skills are very deceptive...

 

[malikdanab]

Maybe a simple "Explosive rune?" Nothing too major just give them a flavor of AOE.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I agree with the simplicity of runeblade. Even with runes, it's mostly you just left clicking all day. In the case of stacking runes it's mainly a coding issue. It maybe possible, but currently there's no way to make the runes scale in strength after subsequent use. Since I don't believe that you can make runes "Stack," the runes need to be buffed:

Icerune- Increase slow from 2.0 sec -> 2.5 sec
Voidrune: Increase silence from 1.5 sec -> 2.5 sec (In line with kick)
Toxicrune: (Damage every 3 seconds over 13 seconds) -> (Damage every 3 seconds over 9 seconds)
Firerune: Increase base damage slightly

I really feel like I need to address Runeblade more directly if you're considering these kinds of numbers.

I find that most people have a very skewed idea of how Runeblade abilities work, or how powerful they can be in a fight--especially from the start. I'm going to lay this out step by step for anyone that comes by and reads this thread, so don't take this as me directly calling you out or anything.

The Runeblade has 4 Rune skills, and a maximum Rune Capacity of 3 Runes. They can queue these runes up at any time, with any combination, and hold up to the capacity of 3. You can do combo's such as Fire -> Fire -> Fire or Void -> Void -> Void. A rune is applied on weapon hit, and can be applied at most, once per second.

I've said this before, but there is a reason that Runes all have very low damages and durations.
1) Runes can be stacked at any time, outside or inside combat.
2) Rune Application works outside of Global Cooldown.
3) Rune Applications have a low internal cooldown of 1 second.
4) Rune abilities themselves have low to medium cooldowns (6-13 seconds).
5) Runes of the same type can be stacked (Fire -> Fire -> Fire)

High damage initiation typically looks something like Toxic -> Fire -> Fire or straight up Fire -> Fire -> Fire.
If the Runeblade knows he's going up against a caster, the solid combo is Void -> Ice -> Void. or Void -> Fire -> Void.
Inexperienced players might also try using Void -> Void -> Void against a caster, but that accomplishes little, due to the fact they are clipping the silence with another silence.

But here's the thing. Most people only look at Runeblade from that "Three Rune Perspective". Very few actually take into consideration that in a typical world-PvP fight, you are dealing with more than just the initial three Runes.

Let me break down the "true" caster rune combo, that allows Runeblade to single handedly destroy any sort of threat that emits from a Wizard, Beguiler or other squishy caster. In the "Void -> Ice -> Void" situation, from the first second you engage on your target, you have silenced them for 1.5 seconds, and slowed them for 2. By the time the silence has ended, you will have silenced them for another 1.5 seconds. However, if you are attacking at a constant rate, you will still clip the initial silence, leading to about 2.5 seconds of silence, and 2 seconds of slow.

If the Runeblade had these Runes queued up in advance (as he should), not a single one of those runes he used are on cooldown yet. They are still available for use, and he can continue the combo further. What this means is, you can easily create a combo like this:
(Void - > Ice -> Void) -> Ice -> Void -> Toxic -> Fire

If the Runeblade is being as efficient as possible, that combo takes 7 seconds to complete, but during those 7 seconds, he has likely used Duskblade, and the enemy has been silenced for about 3.5 seconds, and slowed for 3. If the Runeblade allowed his attacks to be more spread out, he could stretch it to the full 4.5 second Silence and 4 second slow, but most do not do this, and I do not believe it's an efficient way to play the class either.

If you ever talk to a real caster playing PvPer that has gone up against a Runeblade, I'm sure they'd tell you how "bullshit" the Runeblade silence feels, and they'd right to think that--3.5 seconds is long as hell. Combined with the fact that the class is constantly teleporting around and fading out of vision makes them an annoying class to fight. This is why I believe increasing the duration of their silence is not a good idea, and unlikely to improve the quality of a class at all. I think would cause players to look at the class much the same way they've been looking at Ninja and their Blackjack skill, and there really isn't a need for that to happen.


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As far as the playstyle goes, I think it's a matter of different strokes for different folks. Not all classes need to be focused around constant skill targetting and ranged abilities. Runeblade is a skirmisher, much the same way the old samurai was, and there is an appeal to that, even if it isn't the majority. There are very few classes that retain vanilla-like combat (Runeblade / Dragoon), so I'm against reworking Runeblade again to take that away.

 

[malikdanab]

I understand how powerful runeblade is (I played it myself). The only reason didn't pick it this map is because I like Berserker better . I think I did get a little carried away there. Kept trying to think of ways to make it "More fun" and didn't really take in to account that some people just wont/can't play runebalde because it's not their style.

I guess the rationality in my head is that "Nobody is picking this class...it must be bad." When in reality it's most likely that other classes are just better. With that said, now that Goon/Wizard/Ninja got kicked into line, I'd like to see how other classes fare.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I understand how powerful runeblade is (I played it myself). The only reason didn't pick it this map is because I like Berserker better . I think I did get a little carried away there. Kept trying to think of ways to make it "More fun" and didn't really take in to account that some people just wont/can't play runebalde because it's not their style.

I guess the rationality in my head is that "Nobody is picking this class...it must be bad." When in reality it's most likely that other classes are just better. With that said, now that Goon/Wizard/Ninja got kicked into line, I'd like to see how other classes fare.

Yep.