Suggestion Runeblade Base Equipment Weight

[IronAegis]

I have recently decided to become a runeblade after ranger became mundane and boring, while i was on the wiki i looked at the runeblade base equipment weight, which is 25. After that i looked at the wizard's base equipment and it is 26.5, shouldn't a divine swordsman have more armor than a ranged magician.


Please change this because I would love to have a decent amount of armor.
Thank you for reading.

 

[malikdanab]

I'm guessing runeblade is supposed to be the "squishiest" of the rogues. If we compare it to the 2nd squishiest we have ninja at 30. Something like 26-28 seems reasonable. The mages in general have pretty high base armor values. Both Necromancer and Pyromancer have abnormally high amounts of 30 and 33.75 respectively. While pyro is a special case (Melee caster), I don't think any it should be a trend where mages have higher armor than rogues.

Side Note: Disciple is cutting itself in a corner.

 

[Egorh]

Please, don't talk about armor weight when I'm a disciple

 

[malikdanab]

Please, don't talk about armor weight when I'm a disciple

True is a closet Masochist and he loves the pain.

 

[Kimsgrim]

I think armour rates for caster classes are ridiculous at the moment. A wizard shouldn't be able to wear iron chest and leggings. Which I have seen.

 

[malikdanab]

I think armour rates for caster classes are ridiculous at the moment. A wizard shouldn't be able to wear iron chest and leggings. Which I have seen.

Well chain leggings and chest is just a little more than full leather. That said, they still have too much armor compared to rogues.

 

[Kimsgrim]

Wizards in RPG fashion should have no armor. Perhaps we could create a new item (leather) that would have no armor points, but can be enchanted. Like robes, use leather armor as the item but have the smith create it.

 

[Vynderunel]

Wizards in RPG fashion should have no armor. Perhaps we could create a new item (leather) that would have no armor points, but can be enchanted. Like robes, use leather armor as the item but have the smith create it.

Or enchanter, name it "Enchanted Cloth." OR we could make use of the soulweave cloth from mobs. However, I like being a wizard running around with an iron chest plate and boots.

 

[Kimsgrim]

Or enchanter, name it "Enchanted Cloth." OR we could make use of the soulweave cloth from mobs. However, I like being a wizard running around with an iron chest plate and boots.

As a dragoon I would like mega bolt too.

 

[mikehk]

as I am usually s runeblade, I can say that they do not need more armor. however, casters should have less armor in general than rogues as malik said.

offtopic: 500th post

 

[zencow]

Runeblade's armor is intentionally low to make them vulnerable to warrior classes as a trade off for being able to tank magic damage.

I think it's fine given the rock-paper-scissors balancing.

 

[malikdanab]

Runeblade's armor is intentionally low to make them vulnerable to warrior classes as a trade off for being able to tank magic damage.

I think it's fine given the rock-paper-scissors balancing.

Yes it's true that rogues are supposed to have low armor, but how do you explain them having less armor than mages? The way the triangle SHOULD work (time for epic paint skills):

Spoiler

That said, in terms of durability it should go:
Mage<Rogue<Warrior

 

[Dsawemd]

The way the triangle SHOULD work
That said, in terms of durability it should go:
Mage<Rogue<Warrior

EW TRIANGLE BALANCING GROSS
edit: I prefer chess to Rock, Paper, Scissors.

 

[zencow]

If rogue has more armor than caster, then warrior will find it easier to casters than rogues. Caster's armor is still lower than warrior's, so rogues find caster easier to kill than warrior. With rogue's kit with multiple silence or burst damage and armor being a null-factor vs magic damage and mostly having higher base HP than casters, it's working fine.

The way things are are okay, just not from a lore perspective. The real issue lies with protection enchantments that makes casters give them too much damage reduction relative to other classes.

Necromancer's tankiness is justified by it's being DoT based rather than extreme burst like other casters. DoTs can also be cleansed by certain skills.

If caster armor were to be nerfed, dragoon's mobility would definitely need to be lowered too so necromancers who lack mobility don't get chewed up.

 

[zencow]

EW TRIANGLE BALANCING GROSS
edit: I prefer chess to Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Herocraft isn't fully intransitive, it has some orthogonal balancing elements too, that results in underplayed and overplayed classes. When comparing classes like Berserker, RuneBlade and Necromancers there's a clear triangle but classes Dragoons and Wizards can bend the rules.

 

[malikdanab]

If rogue has more armor than caster, then warrior will find it easier to casters than rogues. Caster's armor is still lower than warrior's, so rogues find caster easier to kill than warrior. With rogue's kit with multiple silence or burst damage and armor being a null-factor vs magic damage and mostly having higher base HP than casters, it's working fine.

The way things are are okay, just not from a lore perspective. The real issue lies with protection enchantments that makes casters give them too much damage reduction relative to other classes.

Necromancer's tankiness is justified by it's being DoT based rather than extreme burst like other casters. DoTs can also be cleansed by certain skills.

If caster armor were to be nerfed, dragoon's mobility would definitely need to be lowered too so necromancers who lack mobility don't get chewed up.

Nah. Mages with less armor will make them easier to kill for rogues. Yes it will help warriors kill them quicker, but mages already kill warriors fast enough for that to be a non-problem

Technically everyone can use protection enchantment making that a null point. The reason casters are so powerful is that have extremely powerful spells that pierce armor and powerful CC spells that allow them to cast their damage spells without any risk.

In the case of dragoon, yes they are overpowered, but that's not what we are discussing.

 

[zencow]

Nah. Mages with less armor will make them easier to kill for rogues. Yes it will help warriors kill them quicker, but mages already kill warriors fast enough for that to be a non-problem

Technically everyone can use protection enchantment making that a null point. The reason casters are so powerful is that have extremely powerful spells that pierce armor and powerful CC spells that allow them to cast their damage spells without any risk.

In the case of dragoon, yes they are overpowered, but that's not what we are discussing.

Lower armor means you gain more from protection since protection reduces whatever is left after armor reduction. So casters gain relatively more and thus rogues can't kill casters as fast as they should be able to.

 

[malikdanab]

Lower armor means you gain more from protection since protection reduces whatever is left after armor reduction. So casters gain relatively more and thus rogues can't kill casters as fast as they should be able to.

No. Now this depends on how HC does armor, but either way it's the same. If HC uses vanilla MC mechanics, protection enchantment provides a % damage reduction. In the case of a wizard with full leather and max protection which is 40-80% (Number is random, because vanilla is derp). Say the wizard is hit for 100 damage:

In Vanilla:

Armor reduction: 32%
Protection reduction: 40% to 80%
((100-32%)-40 to 80%)
68 - (40% to 80%) = 40.8 to 13.6 damage
Total Damage Reduced: 59.2% to 86.4%​

Now if we where to do the same thing with say full iron:

Armor reduction: 60%
Protection reduction: 40% to 80%
(100-60%)-40% to 80%)
40 - (40% to 80%) = 24 to 8
Total Damage Reduction: 76% to 92%​

If for example, protection armor gave a flat damage reduction in HC (I believe it may, but I can't find the exact system recorded anywhere):
(For this case we'll say that each lvl of protection reduces damage by 1 point.)
Full leather with of Protection 4:

((100-32%)-16)
68-16=52
Damage Reduced: 48​

Full Iron with Protection 4:

((100-60%)-16)
40-16=24
Damage Reduced: 76
​

So yes, having lower armor and protection is more EFFICIENT, but it does not make them tankier.

 

[zencow]

but it's not make them tankier.

It makes them tankier than they should be relative to the intransitive balance. You have a better chance killing a caster in test than on live.

 

[malikdanab]

It makes them tankier than they should be relative to the intransitive balance. You have a better chance killing a caster in test than on live.

How does this effect runeblade? Either way, most of this stuff will be thrown out the window with custom items and change to the enchantment system.