Suggestion Rangers

[Kidwatson]

This post is solely based on Rangers.

I would like to make a suggestion to better the chance of the Ranger to survive close combat situations. As of right now, If a ranger is up close, face to face, with any Warrior or Rogue class.. There is Zero chance of survival. For Warrior specs.. Spam click, un-arm the bow, Win. Rogue specs just kick ass in close combat situations which leave rangers almost defenseless. Yeah, we may land some arrows but while we are constantly going up and doing with our screen shaking due to being hit non stop, it's barely enough.

So, what I am suggesting to Heroes is.. Possibly adding a skill for Rangers so the could "Evade" close combat for a short time. A perfect skill that I think would fit right in would be Backflip. It would allow Rangers to gain space between the opponent allowing time for the Ranger to re-coop.

(I am a Ranger, yes I would say I'm bias to the Ranger class. I just think Rangers stand a very low percent chance of winning, and would get dominated in close combat.)

 

[Ordinary]

Backflip seems like it would be very overpowered...

 

[Jacobpanther]

Rangers are fine as is in my opinion. Most of the time when I am fighting a ranger class, it is a pretty close match up. The scenario you made up is very situational, and in most "real" pvp (outside of arenas) you aren't fighting in a very boxed up area, which gives ranged classes the edge over warriors if they can't close the gap quick enough. The ranger's ice arrow does exactly that, it slows down the enemy enough for the ranger to be able to pick him off with his arrows and kill them, or at least be able to weaken him enough to the point where it is a fair fight in a melee clash.

 

[Dsawemd]

A) The ranger's ice arrow does exactly that, it slows down the enemy enough for the ranger to be able to pick him off with his arrows and kill them, B) or at least be able to weaken him enough to the point where it is a fair fight in a melee clash.

i added A) and B)

A) Correct, Ranger Ice Arrow in its current state is enough of a lockdown that a lack of mobility isn't actually a large weakness for Rangers.

B) This thread is correct, there is no melee class that a Ranger should fight at close range. Keep them at bay with arrow spam and barrage. Also, get used to losing to Samurai, Rangers. Samurai have Windwalk (strafing our arrows) Impermanence (breaking our Ice) and Bladegrasp (Complete invuln! against us, minus kick). They are also a heavily represented class in the server population.

I understand that my personal record against my opponents is not one to base a class off of, but paladin and cleric are the only two mastered classes I have never beaten solo. I personally find that when I lose to Rogue specs, it is because my aim was poor, or because they successfully got positioning on me in the arena.

 

[what777]

I would like to ice arrow that it prevents you from jumping up 1 block ledges, which is kinda screws you over in 50% of the biomes on the map.

 

[lioIIoil]

I really don't think rangers need another skill and definatly not backflip. You need to play your class better, Rogue is anti-caster not anti-warrior. You need to stay as far away from your opponent as you can. Ice arrow them and run back. If you want to fight as a melee class then go samurai/ninja.

 

[Kainzo]

A melee combat snare wouldnt be a bad idea... the ranger could "hamstring" and then run away and shoot.

 

[Hydroking77]

Let's not go down the fire arrow+root road again. Maybe a 20 sec cd,high enough it will not be like root yet short enough it an be used more than once in a fight. Opinions?

 

[what777]

If they get a root aswell they will be able to kill any warrior class, just by kiting with root and ice arrows.

 

[macura]

Let's not go down the fire arrow+root road again. Maybe a 20 sec cd,high enough it will not be like root yet short enough it an be used more than once in a fight. Opinions?

If the problem is get screwed at close range then the range should only be like 3-4 blocks. Any farther and it would just be an easy way to get the person ice arrowed.

In my opinion the slow and hit speed reduction that ice arrow gives should be enough to kill warriors and that rangers don't need a root.

 

[Hydroking77]

I hate to go here, but first it is hard than you think to hit a strafing target in lag then you think. Samurais have the weakest armor of the warrior specs and their are migrates half of my arrow damage down to around 90 per full shot. Not to mention paladins bring it all the way down to 40 making it almost impossible to kill one.

 

[alexhoff1]

I only wonder if during implementation if this will hurt casters in any way, which you should already be owning as a ranger...

though I suppose rangers are weak in melee situations, so are casters.. it goes with being a long range class..

​

Really the only problem for rangers is that the arrows don't do crap through iron+ armor, like maybe 1/2-1 heart, which really isn't a lot in a prolonged fight... I guess a snare would help, but you would still not get a lot of wins because of the snare disappearing in combat.. why not have a skill like "flash arrow" which would stun the target for a small duration(on impact), not adding much damage, maybe a 1-2 second stun with a HIGH mana cost so you don't just wreck everyone by constant fire, and then it would be fair.​

Also, the skill should cost less mana if it misses, like tick mana as you cast and if it says you hit then you lose more mana.

I get complaints like "rangers have mana issues" but honestly, if you don't have enough mana to cast this and you desperately need to in a fight, then you did something wrong, not that it's unbalanced.

+, rangers have a large advantage in oceans, on hills, and in strongholds with small pathways leading up, take your advantage if you can, it wins fights.

 

[awsumguy75321]

+, rangers have a large advantage in oceans, on hills, and in strongholds with small pathways leading up, take your advantage if you can, it wins fights.

Rangers with punch bows especially have an advantage in hills and strongholds with small pathways, not to mention jungles and anywhere when shooting from high, out-of-reach places.

 

[Dsawemd]

A melee combat snare wouldnt be a bad idea... the ranger could "hamstring" and then run away and shoot.

Another 2-4 block range skill like kick: Ranger runs in, uses Hamstring, runs out after taking 1-3 hits or a slow themselves, gets away and wonders why he didnt just Ice the whole time. Even with a nerfed Ice, using the ranged slow over the melee slow would likely be the way to go.
Placed snare: Ranger can place without entering melee range, but opponents can avoid. A single Cobweb placed snare would be OP yet easily seen. A string placed snare could be excellent, as it is hard to see, and presumably could be altered to affect the opponent who walks into it with about the same slow as water, and presumably would be sliced through with a single slice of the sword.

Ideas for /skill hamstring -
Its like kick but it slows and has different resource costs. Seems easy to implement, not sure if Rangers would use over Ice without nerfing Ice to the point that after getting Hamstring Ranger becomes even More of a "you need to have skill/smart strategy" class to play.

Ideas for a placed snare -
Branch Snare - Creates 4 leaf blocks, at head height, around the opponent.
String Snare - Places 1-5 string around the next arrow that lands, unless it hits an opponent (then it is wasted). String would provide a small and almost unnoticeable snare, which could be broken by the enemy as soon as they realized they were slowed by it.
QuickSand Snare - Creates a small area where the trap was used that slows players when they are in it. Could maybe rubberband them back to the middle just once, as they leave?

All of these placed snares could prove detrimental to the Ranger and his teammates (just like necro's web), and would be coupled with the long awaited reduction in IceArrow's importance (probably no more toggle-ice).

TLR If any indication is given that Snare is being considered I can flesh those out. I think Hamstring would be easy to make but would need either a removal of IceArrow and a new direction for Rangers involving more damage mitigation, either in skills or armor, OR a nerfed Ice and a Hamstring that is stronger than nerfed Ice.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. why not have a skill like "flash arrow" which would stun the target for a small duration(on impact), not adding much damage, maybe a 1-2 second stun with a HIGH mana cost so you don't just wreck everyone by constant fire, and then it would be fair.
2. Also, the skill should cost less mana if it misses, like tick mana as you cast and if it says you hit then you lose more mana.

i added 1. and 2.

1. I think anyone who remembers Root Ranger will be wary of implementing a ranged Stun. I actually didnt have much experience fighting Root Rangers, so someone will have to tell me all about it.

2. This is an interesting idea, but it is the opposite of all other Ranger Arrows, which reward you ONLY if you land them, making the ElementalArrow timing of your "careful aim" and your "desperate arrow spam" important. I think that penalizing Rangers on a per-arrow-landed rather than a per-arrow-shot would make the class too strong if implemented across all arrows, so I am not sure what to think of this mechanic for your FlashArrow suggestion.

3. *Alexhoff says he is considering the fact the Rangers already beat casters*
*Alexhoff suggests ranged Stun that allows 1-3 arrows to land during the duration, raping any caster besides a HarmShield'd Necro*
*Dsaw scratches head in confusion*

 

[lioIIoil]

I only wonder if during implementation if this will hurt casters in any way, which you should already be owning as a ranger...

though I suppose rangers are weak in melee situations, so are casters.. it goes with being a long range class..

​

Really the only problem for rangers is that the arrows don't do crap through iron+ armor, like maybe 1/2-1 heart, which really isn't a lot in a prolonged fight... I guess a snare would help, but you would still not get a lot of wins because of the snare disappearing in combat.. why not have a skill like "flash arrow" which would stun the target for a small duration(on impact), not adding much damage, maybe a 1-2 second stun with a HIGH mana cost so you don't just wreck everyone by constant fire, and then it would be fair.​

Also, the skill should cost less mana if it misses, like tick mana as you cast and if it says you hit then you lose more mana.

I get complaints like "rangers have mana issues" but honestly, if you don't have enough mana to cast this and you desperately need to in a fight, then you did something wrong, not that it's unbalanced.

+, rangers have a large advantage in oceans, on hills, and in strongholds with small pathways leading up, take your advantage if you can, it wins fights.

armor piercing arrows

EDIT: I like giving them root with a high mana cost and a warmup(setting up the snare) or even better a skill similar to web.

 

[LightningCape]

Playing ranger for a few days and I must say it's a fun class to play(unless there is lag then it sucks). The only issue I have is fire arrow. I know it's not really related to this thread just wanted to throw it in. =] Ice arrow covers a wide array of fights.

 

[Kidwatson]

So, How about it Kainzo . Like any of these ideas?

 

[alexhoff1]

i added 1. and 2.

1. I think anyone who remembers Root Ranger will be wary of implementing a ranged Stun. I actually didnt have much experience fighting Root Rangers, so someone will have to tell me all about it.

2. This is an interesting idea, but it is the opposite of all other Ranger Arrows, which reward you ONLY if you land them, making the ElementalArrow timing of your "careful aim" and your "desperate arrow spam" important. I think that penalizing Rangers on a per-arrow-landed rather than a per-arrow-shot would make the class too strong if implemented across all arrows, so I am not sure what to think of this mechanic for your FlashArrow suggestion.

3. *Alexhoff says he is considering the fact the Rangers already beat casters*
*Alexhoff suggests ranged Stun that allows 1-3 arrows to land during the duration, raping any caster besides a HarmShield'd Necro*
*Dsaw scratches head in confusion*

I was thinking 20% of mana cost, and you can't deactivate it if it has a target stunned or they get set free.
also, doesn't stack w/ ice arrow.

:L

 

[Dsawemd]

I was thinking 20% of mana cost, and you can't deactivate it if it has a target stunned or they get set free.
also, doesn't stack w/ ice arrow.

:L

I really like the input you are giving (see bottom for my misgivings about it), and your skill theoretically should add in a "skill burst" for Rangers. If they land the stun, they should be able to land the next few arrows. I do not know why you mentioned that it doesn't stack with ice (2 sec stun would be longer than ice, did you mean that Ranger would be locked OUT of Ice for the duration of the Stun so it would go FlashArrow ->2sec stun over -> Ranger regains ability to choose IceArrow?), but FlashArrow shouldn't stack with any other elemental arrows, similar to current mechanics.

Current mechanics and balancing of Ranger means that our regular arrows still hit relatively hard if we are planning on landing 2-3 directly in a row, so a Stun would allow a much higher chance of landing those arrows and getting some kind of burst that would still require skill to land.

HOWEVER, I still havent heard from anyone who fought a Ranger who had Root. I heard it was challenging.