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Ranger

Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Likes
298
#2
Lets start addressing IceArrow. In my experience as a Ranger, IceArrow is too important to our rotation. If I want to win in anything, I use Ice almost exclusively rather than taking the more fun yet less successful route of using the full set of skills.

A basic problem with IceArrow is that it prevents the target from jumping up a single block (normal movement). My reasoning is that planning on preventing basic jumping leads to boring PvP, and turns IceArrow into too strong of a crowd control mechanic when your opponent wants to go up a single block!

I think this is too powerful of a debuff to the target, and if there is anyway to allow single block jumping without making Ice ineffective against skills like Jump and Backflip, we should change it.

Things we could do to balance this change:
1. Add 10 damage to Ranger's Firearrows, so that (counting fire ticks) it is ~59 increased dmg (compared to a regular bow shot). This would also make up for the occasional bouncing of arrows off targets that the Ranger sets on fire. Keep in mind that Arrows can bounce off of targets that casters/others set on fire as well. Numbers are on naked targets.
or
2. Decrease the cost of using each IceArrow, or of turning it on. I don't think this is the way to go because the aim is to lower IceArrow's importance to Ranger rotation.
or
3. Nothing, as long as IceArrow remains the same in all other aspects besides "now allowing single block jumping". I think this could be a small enough change that we could see how Ranger performs without it.


Eventually (after ammo mechanic implementation) I would like to see a slow that is not constantly applied/toggleable, coupled with either more competitive damage throughput or a slightly hardier Ranger.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
Likes
114
#3
In my opinion ranger's elemental arrows should go back to what they used to be, adding effects to the next x amount of arrows instead of it being a toggle. It would give rangers a lot more ability to move between arrow types. However this would bring up the problem of a ranger using ice arrow, slowing the person then riddling them with normal arrows until the slow effect ends and repeating from there. If they did this it would use almost no mana but devastate everyone, especially casters.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Likes
298
#4
1. In my opinion ranger's elemental arrows should go back to what they used to be, adding effects to the next x amount of arrows instead of it being a toggle. It would give rangers a lot more ability to move between arrow types.

2. However this would bring up the problem of a ranger using ice arrow, slowing the person then riddling them with normal arrows until the slow effect ends and repeating from there. If they did this it would use almost no mana but devastate everyone, especially casters.
1. Resource costs and cooldowns are what limits a Ranger's ability to change arrows. Consider this: In both the current build and your suggested mechanic change, a Ranger can turn on Poison arrow, get a few arrows to land, and then turn on his Ice arrow. There is no difference in the ability to change arrows, unless you are talking about changing cooldowns.

Why I think your suggested mechanic is clunkier: Because the resource cost will be balanced entirely around using X number of arrows. Whereas current build has balance around using "?" number of arrows. Rangers have to use a certain number of each elemental arrow once it is turned on for the skill to be "worth it" for a variety of situations. Sometimes, one Ice is all you want. And in the current mechanic, that penalizes you with Stamina, but not mana. Unless I misunderstood the way your suggested mechanic would be implemented, this change would mean that mana-per-arrow would be spent at the time of using the skill, therefore reducing our ability to keep mana for our next few shots. Keep in mind that each time a Ranger misses a skill arrow, he completely wastes mana unlike any other specs.

2. You inspired me. For consideration, a merger of our previous ideas.

Change Ice-arrow to expend itself EITHER at the end of a Ranger's mana, or after X arrows. Keep costs the same(?), and lets test!

edit: from above, Any comments on Ice's ability to prevent single block jumping? Intended?
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#5
Ech... I've been ambivalent about suggesting changes to Ranger for a long time because I had thought that Roadkill had already designed the revamp (piercing arrow/ender arrow/arrows with damage increases from materials, etc). Not sure when this is going to be implemented at this point, if at all. Considering it doesn't seem like it's getting treatment, we should address Ice Arrow appropriately.

Change effects of all elemental arrows to the next 10 arrows, to start?
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Likes
298
#6
Change effects of all elemental arrows to the next 10 arrows, to start?
If you need to understand why this would be undesirable, and a move backwards to when the cooldown for each arrow was 10 seconds, please read the post above yours. If you still need help understanding, we can TS.

Unless you meant to suggest implementing a mechanic that makes Rangers less versatile, we need to look elsewhere to fix Ice. The current mechanics are smarter, lead to more strategic and complex gameplay, and can be balanced easily using resource costs and bow/DoT damage.

Ice could definitely be limited to X arrows, but honestly if it is 10, then you are not really dealing with the issue of Ice-Spam.

I, too, expected the new ammo mechanic to be implemented sooner than this.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
Likes
114
#7
Ech... I've been ambivalent about suggesting changes to Ranger for a long time because I had thought that Roadkill had already designed the revamp (piercing arrow/ender arrow/arrows with damage increases from materials, etc). Not sure when this is going to be implemented at this point, if at all. Considering it doesn't seem like it's getting treatment, we should address Ice Arrow appropriately.

Change effects of all elemental arrows to the next 10 arrows, to start?
having the next 10 arrows to be elemental is far too high of an amount.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Likes
298
#8
having the next 10 arrows to be elemental is far too high of an amount.
Please also read the post above his which explains why having a set number of arrows is a clunky and bad mechanic. The only issue with toggle arrow play is ice spam. I still support IceArrow expending itself on the 3rd arrow, or when you run out of mana.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Likes
3
Location
Glendale, Arizona, United States
#9
I had a chance to talk to Xerot today about ranger. He and I tossed a few ideas around and we came upon and idea to help balance rangers a bit further.

He said that he would like to see the slow on Ice-Arrow nerfed a bit, but have the duration last a bit longer. Basically giving newer rangers a chance to get used to playing a ranger, while allowing veteran players to experiment with different combinations of arrows.

I think this could help make ranger more well rounded, without changing the actual skill set at all.

Balance Team
 

Delfofthebla

Coder
Tier 4
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Likes
174
Location
United States
#10
I had a chance to talk to Xerot today about ranger. He and I tossed a few ideas around and we came upon and idea to help balance rangers a bit further.

He said that he would like to see the slow on Ice-Arrow nerfed a bit, but have the duration last a bit longer. Basically giving newer rangers a chance to get used to playing a ranger, while allowing veteran players to experiment with different combinations of arrows.

I think this could help make ranger more well rounded, without changing the actual skill set at all.

Balance Team
I like this idea. Right now, Ice Arrow is too strong, while also not being strong enough.

A ranger that has perfect aim can completely lock down a target with no issues. Additionally, he has no need to switch arrows, as Ice Arrow is good enough to get the job done. However, an inexperienced Ranger that can only land one arrow out of 6, is pretty much boned.

If we increased the duration of these effects, but reduced their effectiveness, I think it would make the class more enjoyable for all players, new and old, ranger and non-ranger.


Gonna toss out some numbers to get the ball rolling.
----
Reduce Ice Arrow to Slowness I. (Down from Slowness II)
Increase duration of Ice Arrow by 1.5 seconds.

Poison arrow...not so sure right now. I feel as though the damage is really low on this ability, so I'd kind of like to see it increased, but I'm not sure how much stronger that will make it. I'll need to test some stuff on test before saying anything further.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Likes
350
#11
So as of late, the damage scaling of ranger is pretty heavy. I've been seeing mid way pulled back arrows doing one heart to me and aimed shot doing 4 1/2 (I have 937 hp). Though I've been seeing even tanky classes complaining about it. I think the cause of this is that they really only need agility to do the bulk of their damage and with their range, they don't have to worry about being killed all the time so defensive stats only really make them even harder to deal with.
 
Joined
May 15, 2014
Likes
33
Location
New York City
#12
Quick change to ranger
The removal of titanicgrip has made the grapplingshot of rangers very weak
Not sure if this is intended, but if not, i recommend increasing the base distance of rangers grappling
 

FaZeAlpine

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Likes
37
#13
Quick change to ranger
The removal of titanicgrip has made the grapplingshot of rangers very weak
Not sure if this is intended, but if not, i recommend increasing the base distance of rangers grappling
I brought this up a while back, not sure if the change was implemented.
 
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