Range Domination of HC

[Farroes]

So far this map has been completely dominated by range classes (wiz/geo/ranger are the main culprits) with the exception of the dread knight, but now that the DK has been nerfed it seems everyone has gone caster/ranger.

The purpose of this thread is to get people brain storming on some suggestions that could help bring balance to the force. What do you think is the downfall of almost all melee atm?

My thoughts:

-most melee have no gap closers, and its very easy for a range class to stay at range because of this, especially with roots/slows been on such low cd, and low mana cost

-low damage vs range classes, I know melee damage is easily spammed where as caster have to conserve mana, and ranger must conserve mana/arrows, but due to the ease of hitting with a range attack the damage may be a little high vs the low damage of melee

-magic goes through armor. This makes armor not very good at all since most people seem to be a caster

-unrelated but: Make fireball damage require a hoe in your inventory to be used as a modifier for damage eg: wood hoe does 5 damage, stone 7, iron 10, etc (numbers pulled out of my ass, no thought put into them) This will stop casters from being able to run from a GY and be just as deadly as they were 2 seconds before they died


Just so no one thinks I have only played one class the whole map and no nothing of other classes, here is what i have played this map(i have chronic indecision lol):

-necro 44
-wizard 42
-Dragoon 36
-samurai 22
-ninja 26
-thief 30
-ranger 30

I am currently a wizard again, after giving up on melee for the time being

 

[aceshooter11]

For caster they should have to use sticks for weapons no melee just straight up magic wand

 

[Digger360]

Here's my view of things. Have in mind Iv'e never played a caster spec, so some sections may be indeed biased, but most of my arguments are based off experience.

Yeah. Somethings wrong when your average spec'd warrior needs to risk 10+ diamonds (Armor + weapon) to combat rogues, while casters can INSTANTLY stop a rogue/warrior spec in it's tracks, than completely obliterate him with a well placed combo. While risking bread, perhaps a stick.

My idea, is the current setup is a *Power triangle*, Warriors destroy rogues, as they have little armor, rogues destroy casters, as they theoretically have the initial strike, with high damage, while casters strike though the armor, and since warriors have shit DPS, are virtually helpless against them. Now, thats all good in theory, but the current system is this,

Casters generally have the initial strike, since its easy to check ones back, while range allows them to hit faster, harder and farther back. Even if the rogue sneaks up on the caster, the result is indifferent. The Caster could simply Pigify, Deepfreeze, blink, with complete ease. Perhaps this is delayed with a kick, but kicking gives nowhere near the required time to significant damage. Casters have the same health as a rogue (In General), only MORE armor. Sure. Perhaps the rogue has a mix of chain and leather, but as magic completely ignores it, he effectively has none, while the caster (Can) have full leather.

Thanks to rooting skills, the caster never needs to miss a skill, or can hault a rogue/warrior whenever they get near.

The way I see it, caster specs have MORE armor than any other class, MORE DPS than even a rogue, only with RANGE, and the ability to HALT any enemy movements shutting down damage. Worst of all, fireballs DoT slows movement even further. Of course the same holds true with other DoT's, say Assassins blade, but overall, Poison DoT's from such attacks strike much slower than burning damage.

Perhaps rooting skills would be justified if the Caster had less mobility than its engaging casters, but no; Icy aura and blink will counter any speed buff/jump other classes can muster.

Casters are even MORE effective in group combat, mainly because they hold the majority of AoE's. Sure, your entire group can target the casters first, but rooting skills and AoE's slow down the attacking force, allowing the second group to pummel the first, as they target the caster. With mine crafts current damage system, two damage events cant be applied at the same time, so even if you all smash the caster, really, he's taking the same damage if only one was attacking him.

All this combining together, allows caster specs to reign over most other classes. With NO MATERIAL RISK

( On the subject of rangers,I believe they aren't actually OP, seeing as an arrow from one will do 3-4 damage to a tank.)

 

[Hydroking77]

I was about to say the same thing about arrow damage.

 

[Farroes]

the reason i suggested hoes over a stick is

a) damage can be modified based on quaility of weapon
b) requires something to be risked
c) cant run from GY and be as deadly as a fully armoured foe

 

[c12095]

Honestly I don't mind caster damage right now, only thing that is pissing me off is ice arrow. One shot from that thing and there's pretty much a 0% chance on the ranger missing and continued arrow shots.

 

[Farroes]

yeah its insane that rangers can have ice arrows up for an entire fight

 

[Kainzo]

Ice arrows are meant to slow by 30-40%, not root

 

[JDFinal]

Ice arrows are meant to slow by 30-40%, not root

Well they do a lot more than that.

 

[Aetosion]

Ice Arrows are definitely insane. I think the "Power Triangle" could be repaired by giving more Rogues skills like "One", giving them more gap-closing abilities on ranged persons. I also feel like the Ranger Armour/Dps is disproportional to, say, a Wizard.

 

[what777]

Ice arrows are meant to slow by 30-40%, not root

They slow for like 99% and pull you back when you try to move

 

[Dazureus]

Could we have leather armor block damage from spells, whereas other types of armor do not? Maybe Diamond could offer a little resistance as well.

In lots of other games spellcasters have higher magic resistance than melee characters do.
This gives melee classes the option to have some insulation against magic at the cost of straight-up armor.
It makes low-tier armor valuable to classes with the ability to use higher-tier armor. People might call this a bad thing because Leather is already hard to find in bulk. In response, I'm still waiting for people to make proper use of Farmer.

 

[Farroes]

leather is easy once you have a farmer Darroes <3

perhaps just give rogues a build in magic damage resistance instead of also giving warriors the same advantage.

 

[Thejoker1177]

I think it would be great if some types of armor had resistance on magic.

 

[TheTMTrainer]

Although I can only go off the wiki- skills right now, looking over the skills Warriors (Paladin and DK) and then moving over to Casters (Wizards and Geos) and Rogue (Rangers), Warriors are at a sheer disadvantage. Wizards and Geos, judging from their skills, are masters of AoE attacks... this isn't a bad thing, other than where you begin looking at the damage...

Looking at DPS

Paladins lack any damaging skills, at all, other than Soul Fire, and that activates by chance. Their best weapon (Gold Swords) do 6 HP, a laughable amount compaired to weaponless Casters that use Root then just go off spamming their everything. Geos have the most damage skills, so they can go stack up some burn DoT and spam everything. DKs have DoT skills that do semi-decent damage (it seems), but by the time all their skills finish dealing their damage they would have needed to get in close range and attack with their 7HP axes.

Rangers, Wolfs for close range, Arrowstorm to basicly finish off the Target after Poisoning, the Freezing their target. They seem OP if played right, but then again, they need arrows.

Looking at Defence

Paladins have hella-amounts of heal, but the flaw in their defence is that they need to use a door to 'Block' damage. There is no point in running away, holding your door, trying to heal while Geos and Wizards do raw DPS on you. The only skill useful for attempting to get up close to a Wizard or Geo (if they havn't burnt you to a crisp yet) would be to use Invuln and run at them, hoping they don't Blink (Geos can't blink).

DKs don't have a heal, they have a drain skill at level 50 that does little to nothing (if I am reading it right) so defence isn't really their style anyway.

Wizards have Blink to run away, but lack defence moves. Geos lack any defence.

Rangers have nothing.

_______

Thats what I got from reading the wiki, this will prob change when I actualy get a chance to play, so don't go off quoting me, please.

 

[Digger360]

Icy aura for Geo's is an AoE STUN with minior damage, they don't even need to aim. This allows them to combo even further, or simply take a few steps back, its an Offensive AND a defensive spell.

As far as a DK's SoulLeech goes, thanks to the warm-up, its completely useless. It has a one second warmup, making the DK completely helpless during cast. Thanks to it's short range, Rogues can simply kick, (Not that even need to) And wail on the DK, or because the Dk effectively rooted himself against a caster, they get a free combo. Against either class, It's completely worthless. You take more damage than the healing and damage it deals put together.

 

[Kainzo]

A fix for icearrow is coming in - the balance and testing team will be testing it out soon.

 

[Fjordsen]

As a warrior (Samurai) I don't have a huge amount of HP, but a good amount. When i am attacked/attacks a caster with full chain armor and 100HP, i will lose while dealing max 20dmg to the caster. I may get 2 hits on the caster if i'm lucky, but that is ofc not enough. Once i get close to the caster and probably hit 1-2 times with Fireball already, i have 60-80HP. Then the caster roots/Ice/Piggyfies me and i can't do anything in a few seconds. While rooten in place i may get lucky and hit caster one time with my sword. The caster will noe proceed with firing 2 fireballs at me, dealing 40+dmg. Then he may bolt/Icebolt me and with thay i'm fucked. Maybe dealing 2-3 hits on caster, i'm dead. My amor doesn't protect and my skills doesn't help.

Sammy skills: (Level 42)

Disarm, no use against a caster that runs around with imp. chat.
Bleed, useless skill, does lesd dmg then my sword.
Bladegrasp, good skill but it doesn't block spells.
Cleave, a good skill, but it takes 18dmg with diamond sword and then i can't use it more in that fight.

So my skills won't help me, as with armor. Need to relay on my sword.

So when i fight, i often have a health II potion with me. Even though i drink it and regain full HP, the root skill will again root me and another round if spells comes up. I'm dead, with my potion. The caster doesn't need a single item, but can still easily kill a fully geared up Samurai. I know that casters should take out warriors, but Sammy is more like a rogue/warrior and should atleast have a chance at 1v1 a caster spec. I suggest adding maybe a speed skill to warriors and possibly rogues. As for Rangers, they're fine once ice arrow is repaired. Caster needs higher CD and maybe MP cost on rooting skills. And i love the fireball damage being adjusted by what quality of weapon the caster has.

Messy post, but i just put together some of my thoughts. Caster is the most mainstream class because of it current OP-ness.

 

[The_Player_189]

I'd say we make it that when a caster shoots or something they get slowed, its like using bandage!!!! Seems good idea?!?!?!? 1

 

[what777]

I'd say we make it that when a caster shoots or something they get slowed, its like using bandage!!!! Seems good idea?!?!?!? 1

Would make them way to bad.