Suggestion Pyromancer

[ThatAintFalco]

god for bid pyromancer carry expensive stuff like enderpearls and gunpowder when wizards require 5 gunpower for 1 skill

 

[jazza411]

No secret I hate pyro but chaos orb spd increase is pretty good, use spd pots and Enders pearls, if you dont wanna use these then you don't want the kill that much

If you are out of stamina, maybe try diamonds?

Pyro's inven:
Weapon
Gunpowder
Food
Redstone
Flint
Enderpearl
Diamond
Speed potion

See what I am getting at?

 

[jazza411]

god for bid pyromancer carry expensive stuff like enderpearls and gunpowder when wizards require 5 gunpower for 1 skill

Good point but unfortunately this post is directed to pyromancer not wizard. Please do not derail this suggestion post. Thanks.

 

[Pugglez_]

Pyro's inven:
Weapon
Gunpowder
Food
Redstone
Flint
Enderpearl
Diamond
Speed potion

See what I am getting at?

Ninja has more reagents to carry though, but has a higher chance of escaping unlike a pyro

 

[RShooter2000]

Pyro's inven:
Weapon
Gunpowder
Food
Redstone
Flint
Enderpearl
Diamond
Speed potion

See what I am getting at?

Pyro has a lot in its kit just like Wizard or Ninja, it should have a lot of reagents. Lots of damage for lots of reagents seems fair to me.

 

[jazza411]

Bard= Accelerando
Ninja= Grapplinghook, Backflip
Runeblade= Blink
Berserker= Lunge
Paladin= Holysteed
Dreadknight= Dreadsteed
dragoon= Jump
Disciple= Flyingkick

I believe these are all the heavy melee classes and they all have a mobility skill.

What about a skill where a player can teleport to a target after they mark them with chaosorb?

 

[RShooter2000]

Ninja has more reagents to carry though, but has a higher chance of escaping unlike a pyro

If a pyro gets out of combat long enough to use enderpearls it could just spam enderpearls away.

 

[jazza411]

If a pyro gets out of combat long enough to use enderpearls it could just spam enderpearls away.

Carrying the amount of enderpearls you are suggesting is very expensive.

 

[Pugglez_]

If a pyro gets out of combat long enough to use enderpearls it could just spam enderpearls away.

IF the pyro can get out of combat.

 

[RShooter2000]

Carrying the amount of enderpearls you are suggesting is very expensive.

Just takes 2 to get far enough away to recall or GTFO.

 

[jazza411]

@RShooter2000 forget about reagents for a second what do you think about this?

Bard= Accelerando
Ninja= Grapplinghook, Backflip
Runeblade= Blink
Berserker= Lunge
Paladin= Holysteed
Dreadknight= Dreadsteed
dragoon= Jump
Disciple= Flyingkick

I believe these are all the heavy melee classes and they all have a mobility skill.

What about a skill where a player can teleport to a target after they mark them with chaosorb?

 

[Pugglez_]

@RShooter2000 forget about reagents for a second what do you think about this?

IF the pyro can get out of combat.

 

[RShooter2000]

I think you should add in...

Pyromancer= Enderpearls

 

[jazza411]

I think you should add in...

Pyromancer= Enderpearls

These are skills not using items.

 

[Pugglez_]

I think you should add in...

Pyromancer= Enderpearls

Like I said, if the pyro can get out of combat. Look at all the skills that jazza just listed, all those can make it easy to catch a pyro.

 

[jazza411]

I just did a bit of group PvP and I could not do anything to anyone who was strafing. This may seem like I'm being bitter but as stated before every other melee class has a gap closer / mobility skill except for pyro. All it would take is to tweak chaos orb a bit because currently all the use I see from it is using it when someone is charging.

Just a bit more speed and distance.

 

[Ahrall]

Reagents are not something that should be a large pressing issue at the moment. Some classes require a lot of "stuff" to cast all of those skills but in a few months when everyone has excess of everything reagents will be moot besides hindering graveyard running.

On to the actual discussion: pyro vs kiting
In a game like this where there are very little cast timers, melee attacks that knock your target back, and back pedaling (moving your character backwards) that has no negative effects on your move speed, melee classes will have a disadvantage unless they are given the tools to combat this.
The "two ways to combat this"
Mobility or Crowd Control
Mobility is best seen in a ninja or a dragoon. They can't keep you close to them but you can't get distance from them
Crowd control is best seen in the Dreadinight or Paladin. (Disregarding horses because you can't use them in combat) they aren't going to chase you down, but they aren't going to let you get away
Pyro is in an awkward middle spot. They have good engagement via ender pearls (if you are willing to throw a few before you get into combat) but lackluster in combat mobility due to the pathetic range/speed of chaos orb and monstrous cooldown on in-combat-ender-pearls
For the cc department they have a decent slow on maim... If you can get into range to use it. And the stun on great combustion is nice and all... If you can stay in range to use it. Both of these rendered useless because the issue in the first place is that you cannot get into range to use these skills

My suggestions:
A: range/speed and cooldown increase on chaos orb. 4ish block range increase in exchange for a 4ish second cooldown increase. Or make the range scale with intellect (Puts it on par with a runeblade's blink)
B: decrease in combat cooldown and range (confirmed by Delf that we can do this) on ender pearls. Cut the range down 2/3rds and the cooldown to around 15-20 seconds
C: darkbolt actually slows. People say that the whither helps against kiters, but anyone with a sprint key bound (IE most players) won't notice it's effects. Slowness 1 for a long duration or slowness 2 for a short duration

Pyro is a good class and I definitely would not call it underpowered. It just sucks being almost completely helpless against ranged classes
TLDR: read the post

 

[pure_autism]

Reagents are not something that should be a large pressing issue at the moment. Some classes require a lot of "stuff" to cast all of those skills but in a few months when everyone has excess of everything reagents will be moot besides hindering graveyard running.

On to the actual discussion: pyro vs kiting
In a game like this where there are very little cast timers, melee attacks that knock your target back, and back pedaling (moving your character backwards) that has no negative effects on your move speed, melee classes will have a disadvantage unless they are given the tools to combat this.
The "two ways to combat this"
Mobility or Crowd Control
Mobility is best seen in a ninja or a dragoon. They can't keep you close to them but you can't get distance from them
Crowd control is best seen in the Dreadinight or Paladin. (Disregarding horses because you can't use them in combat) they aren't going to chase you down, but they aren't going to let you get away
Pyro is in an awkward middle spot. They have good engagement via ender pearls (if you are willing to throw a few before you get into combat) but lackluster in combat mobility due to the pathetic range/speed of chaos orb and monstrous cooldown on in-combat-ender-pearls
For the cc department they have a decent slow on maim... If you can get into range to use it. And the stun on great combustion is nice and all... If you can stay in range to use it. Both of these rendered useless because the issue in the first place is that you cannot get into range to use these skills

My suggestions:
A: range/speed and cooldown increase on chaos orb. 4ish block range increase in exchange for a 4ish second cooldown increase. Or make the range scale with intellect (Puts it on par with a runeblade's blink)
B: decrease in combat cooldown and range (confirmed by Delf that we can do this) on ender pearls. Cut the range down 2/3rds and the cooldown to around 15-20 seconds
C: darkbolt actually slows. People say that the whither helps against kiters, but anyone with a sprint key bound (IE most players) won't notice it's effects. Slowness 1 for a long duration or slowness 2 for a short duration

Pyro is a good class and I definitely would not call it underpowered. It just sucks being almost completely helpless against ranged classes
TLDR: read the post

I don't think ChaosOrb should have a 10s cooldown. My reasons why:

1. Pyro basically relies on that skill along with GreatCombustion to do the majority of its damage.

2. 10 seconds as a squishy, slow class is pretty big since Pyro relies on it so much.

3. Pyro already has very long cooldowns, ChaosOrb is the only skill without a long cooldown, the way I see it.

I think the speed of ChaosOrb should be increased, and nothing else. It already goes 8-9 blocks if you aim it correctly which is enough.

I also like the idea of DarkBolt giving slowness, that would be pretty nice. Then again, that could make the skill almost useless against Ninja...

 

[Dsawemd]

New Chaotic Strength: Also grants +10 agility, while adding the current +15 strength and subtracting 25 intellect.

Pyromancer does not scale off agility, this would not be a strong increase, just a QoL that increases their melee sticking power when they use their melee burst skill that locks them out of their main spell damage.

ps. ChaosOrb is only bad if you are chasing after the person directly. Enemy runs from Point A to Point B, do NOT use chaos orb to stick to them (unless you can land it, doing damage). Enemy runs from Point A to point B to point C, use ChaosOrb to get to point C. Predict where they run, throw it downhill, chase people who are hiding underwater (be careful don't drown), chase people up hills or over walls or around trees. If you need to catch someone on flat ground, USE DARKBOLT.

 

[jazza411]

New Chaotic Strength: Also grants +10 agility, while adding the current +15 strength and subtracting 25 intellect.

Pyromancer does not scale off agility, this would not be a strong increase, just a QoL that increases their melee sticking power when they use their melee burst skill that locks them out of their main spell damage.

ps. ChaosOrb is only bad if you are chasing after the person directly. Enemy runs from Point A to Point B, do NOT use chaos orb to stick to them (unless you can land it, doing damage). Enemy runs from Point A to point B to point C, use ChaosOrb to get to point C. Predict where they run, throw it downhill, chase people who are hiding underwater (be careful don't drown), chase people up hills or over walls or around trees. If you need to catch someone on flat ground, USE DARKBOLT.

That won't work running at full speed is too fast for dark bolt it will activate behind you usually....

 

[Dsawemd]

My experience with pyro is that the wither effect from DarkBolt can be used as a sticking tool with just a tiny bit of intelligence. I do not think the projectile range or AoE range was changed since last map. Any other pyro's (current or past) claim differently, that DarkBolt is not land-able or is otherwise not able to be used to slow sprint-jumping to the point that it is an effective tool?