Suggestion PvP logging needs a change.

[Flippintuna1]

I thought the reasoning for escape skills was to allow someone to escape? If they can get away from you long enough to have the timer run out then log, they most likly would have gotten away from you altogether in the first place.

While I understand that it frustrating to have someone run from you when you try to pvp (and yea it is kinda a cowardly move if you log upon seeing someone) Maybe ambushing them would be a better option? Attack them in an area that makes it harder for them to use their skills and then success may be more likly.

And I dont want to sound like a jerk but complaining that you dont get their items makes it sound like whinning, although I do understand the intent I dont believe it helps the argument.

Not at all. For example, I was fighting xxtx something, I chased him for around 700 blocks and he had stayed in combat for most of the time. Then he got a slight advantage on me when my jump failed and so he looked at me and logged out. I camped him for 3 hours waiting for him to log back in and he never did. I checked a little while after and he hadn't logged back in after around 6-7 hours. I think this is stupid because he was completely dead and was only around 5 hearts and he got away because my skill failed and cost me a few seconds.
Ambushing people isn't always an option. If they see you first, or, are in the open. I'm also not going to follow them a few hundred blocks to kill them. That not worth it.
It's not just about their items. It's about the pride you get from getting the kill.
Edit: I checked and now it's at 20 hours.

 

[c12095]

I agree with you here Flippintuna1 , there should be an NPC in the location you logged out for 10ish seconds to prevent combat loggers. It has been getting pathetic, I have come to some fights were entire groups of 5-7 players will log out for hours on end, just to avoid a death. This is not how the game should be played and I believe these players should be punished for what they are doing.

 

[Kimsgrim]

I don't think I have ever logged out to escape combat, but rather run like a bugger to get away. To tell you the truth, it never occurred to me to log out xD. Part of me wants to say, if people can use their skills to get away good for them. It's almost funny that you can cause them to not play the game lol!

 

[Kainzo]

Running away to leave combat =/= combat logging.

We have counter-measures to prevent logging in combat (They die instantly either on logging in or out)

If this is not working, then all of our tests have failed and I have not been able to reproduce it.

 

[c12095]

Running away to leave combat =/= combat logging.

We have counter-measures to prevent logging in combat (They die instantly either on logging in or out)

If this is not working, then all of our tests have failed and I have not been able to reproduce it.

It is very similar Kainzo, just because they are out of combat for a split second does not mean that they aren't combat logging. The are logging to avoid combat, meaning combat logging. This is a pretty big issue with the players on this server and I think needs to be looked at.

 

[Favith]

Not at all. For example, I was fighting xxtx something, I chased him for around 700 blocks and he had stayed in combat for most of the time. Then he got a slight advantage on me when my jump failed and so he looked at me and logged out. I camped him for 3 hours waiting for him to log back in and he never did. I checked a little while after and he hadn't logged back in after around 6-7 hours. I think this is stupid because he was completely dead and was only around 5 hearts and he got away because my skill failed and cost me a few seconds.
Ambushing people isn't always an option. If they see you first, or, are in the open. I'm also not going to follow them a few hundred blocks to kill them. That not worth it.
It's not just about their items. It's about the pride you get from getting the kill.
Edit: I checked and now it's at 20 hours.

Listen to yourself, Flippintuna1. You chased the guy for 700 BLOCKS?! You made a mistake (or had lag, or whatever the excuse) and he CAPITALIZED on your mistake! He won (and by "won" I mean he successfully got away from you long enough to wait out the timer and log). Get over it, move on. He didn't cheat. He played by the rules. You had 700 blocks to either catch him or for him to screw up--and in the end you failed, he didn't.

How is this any different when fighting a class/character when nailing your skill rotation EXACTLY CORRECT is the difference between winning and losing? There are games out there (and listening to some pvpers brag, this one included) where pvp comes down to being PERFECT in your skill execution. In the case you describe--YOU WEREN'T PERFECT. He won, you lost. You are really QQing here if you're mad that the guy led you on a 700 block chase and you didn't get the kill so he's a "dirty combat logger" (my quotes for emphasis).

 

[Kainzo]

It is very similar Kainzo, just because they are out of combat for a split second does not mean that they aren't combat logging. The are logging to avoid combat, meaning combat logging. This is a pretty big issue with the players on this server and I think needs to be looked at.

I think increasing combat to 30s wouldnt be "terrible" but may have some lame results.

 

[Favith]

It is very similar Kainzo, just because they are out of combat for a split second does not mean that they aren't combat logging. The are logging to avoid combat, meaning combat logging. This is a pretty big issue with the players on this server and I think needs to be looked at.

I disagree. Logging to avoid combat and logging in combat are two different things.

There is a timer to wait out that allows the first to happen and doesn't allow the second to happen.

You can argue for a longer timer and that would be a legit debate, but arguing that someone logs out AFTER they waited out the timer is barking up the wrong tree. They waited out the timer, the pvper couldn't catch/kill/tag them again to refresh the timer, they "win" (not really win, but can log out now since they served their in-combat time).

Nobody is out of combat for a "split second"--if they logged without insta-dying they were out of combat for the duration of the timer (10 seconds now? I don't even know).

C12--I'd be interested in your opinion on Flippin's story above. Do you feel that someone should be able to chase you indefinitely? 700 blocks seems extreme. For 700 blocks flipp kept someone in combat but messed up once and the guy was able to wait the timer out and log. My opinion: Flipps would-be victim earned the right to escape. Are you in disagreement? How many blocks should he have to run before he's earned his escape?

 

[c12095]

Favith

700 blocks is a pretty damn good chase, however I still disagree that the player should be able to log out to avoid a death. leftovers5 can vouch for me, I was being chased by about 5-6 people for 7-10 minutes, I was able to run them around for awhile, however I was starting to get hit more and more, I knew I couldn't kill them all. So as a last ditch effort I jumped into a ravine and began to dig myself to safety. In the end I lived with less than a heart.

There were points where I saw I was out of combat, but combat logging is just pathetic. There are plenty of ways to get away from a group of people besides running, logging out should not be one of them. Accept the death, its not the end of the world, it just pisses off whoever you do it to.

 

[leftovers5]

You're doing something wrong if you can't catch somebody and keep them tagged. For classes without mobility or ranged skills, yeah, that's much harder, so get a ranged/mobile buddy to come along with you.

I never log to avoid being hit and killed by people, it's just annoying and disruptive to the dog eat dog world we live in.

 

[leftovers5]

Favith

700 blocks is a pretty damn good chase, however I still disagree that the player should be able to log out to avoid a death. leftovers5 can vouch for me, I was being chased by about 5-6 people for 7-10 minutes, I was able to run them around for awhile, however I was starting to get hit more and more, I knew I couldn't kill them all. So as a last ditch effort I jumped into a ravine and began to dig myself to safety. In the end I lived with less than a heart.

There were points where I saw I was out of combat, but combat logging is just pathetic. There are plenty of ways to get away from a group of people besides running, logging out should not be one of them.

Confirmed.

 

[Flippintuna1]

I think increasing combat to 30s wouldnt be "terrible" but may have some lame results.

Then what about the other one? I gave 2 examples off the top of my head.

 

[Favith]

Favith

700 blocks is a pretty damn good chase, however I still disagree that the player should be able to log out to avoid a death. leftovers5 can vouch for me, I was being chased by about 5-6 people for 7-10 minutes, I was able to run them around for awhile, however I was starting to get hit more and more, I knew I couldn't kill them all. So as a last ditch effort I jumped into a ravine and began to dig myself to safety. In the end I lived with less than a heart.

There were points where I saw I was out of combat, but combat logging is just pathetic. There are plenty of ways to get away from a group of people besides running, logging out should not be one of them. Accept the death, its not the end of the world, it just pisses off whoever you do it to.

So I successfully lead a would-be killer on a 700+ block chase. I avoid holes, trees, vines, all sand and any other obstacles that might be in my way. All the while I'm being tagged with whatever skills the would-be killer(s) is/are throwing at me to keep me in combat. And then it happens---my wannabe murderer screws up. He hits a vine, hits the wrong keybind, gets yelled at by his mom and is momentarily distracted...whatever. You're telling me I didn't earn the logout rights after waiting out the timer?

Were this a PVP server I'd agree (since people log in to a pvp server to pvp and avoiding pvp on a pvp server is lame). Repeatedly, however, we've heard (from all manner of staff--Kainzo included) that we're a hardcore server, not a pvp server. I know you, of all people, know the difference. Not everyone enjoys pvp here--many of us get our enjoyment from HC in other ways. I happen to like supporting Malkier and mining. If I'm out mining with 6 stacks of gold ore I'm not waiting around to be killed when I see a name in the distance. Sorry, I'm just not. If someone gets the drop on me and I can manage to get away I'm getting away--and then I'm logging. Deal with it, Cry about it, Rage...whatever. I'm playing by the rules and the pvp-entitled mindset of those who don't like it can be damned. If I can't get away and I die to the guy--well, that's the price I pay for enjoying a hardcore server, right? Of all my deaths I've never been here whining about getting killed on HC. Why do pvpers whine about people successfully getting away from them?

Were I one to enjoy pvp here I would think part of the challenge (and therefore the enjoyment) of pvp on herocraft is that some people will try to run and escape. The challenge would be (should be, in fact) getting your kill before they can get away from you. The combat timer aids you, but it isn't going to hold your hand. How long do you need...really?

I'm sorry, but had we been talking about a 1v1 between two willing opponents you and I both know your reaction would be different. If someone were on these forums complaining about losing that 1v1 fight and basically admitting they lost due to their own error (or to the other guy playing better) then every serious pvper (hopefully you included) would be telling that clown to shut his trap and "l2p noob" (or whatever passes for pvp speak these days).

But here Flippin admits to screwing up and the top pvp on the server is here saying that flipp has every right to be mad that the other guy logged and he's "pathetic" for finalizing his escape by logging out. The other guy performed better, period. Just because he didn't do what you would have done in that scenario doesn't make his actions pathetic. I think Flipp is pathetic for a) not being able to catch a guy after 700 blocks and b) whining here that the guy capitalized on flipp's mistake.

I just don't get it.

 

[Jasquan]

To be honest, I simply must agree with Favith . Chase your prey, if they make it out of your combat timer, it's over. I don't care if it's cowardly, but when I see someone with intent on killing me, I freaking log off, like hell I want to die and lose some of my experience, sure, it's not alot, but it's still enough for me to lose a level.
Also, as Kainzo said, if you really do combat log, you die, apperently. (Haven't actually combat logged like that myself, so I dunno)

 

[EvilThor]

What about a system where you get a 1 minute combat tag from PVP, (you should be able to eat after 10 sec or something)
And the same tag as you do now from PVE.
The other part of my suggestion is to have a cmd in game that produces a random code you need to retype, like
a captcha. This would get your combat timer reset.

That way you can get hit by your friend or something, type the code and be able to heal up/ log of.
At the same time you will be unable to write a random code while getting chased by someone...

 

[Flippintuna1]

So I successfully lead a would-be killer on a 700+ block chase. I avoid holes, trees, vines, all sand and any other obstacles that might be in my way. All the while I'm being tagged with whatever skills the would-be killer(s) is/are throwing at me to keep me in combat. And then it happens---my wannabe murderer screws up. He hits a vine, hits the wrong keybind, gets yelled at by his mom and is momentarily distracted...whatever. You're telling me I didn't earn the logout rights after waiting out the timer?

Were this a PVP server I'd agree (since people log in to a pvp server to pvp and avoiding pvp on a pvp server is lame). Repeatedly, however, we've heard (from all manner of staff--Kainzo included) that we're a hardcore server, not a pvp server. I know you, of all people, know the difference. Not everyone enjoys pvp here--many of us get our enjoyment from HC in other ways. I happen to like supporting Malkier and mining. If I'm out mining with 6 stacks of gold ore I'm not waiting around to be killed when I see a name in the distance. Sorry, I'm just not. If someone gets the drop on me and I can manage to get away I'm getting away--and then I'm logging. Deal with it, Cry about it, Rage...whatever. I'm playing by the rules and the pvp-entitled mindset of those who don't like it can be damned. If I can't get away and I die to the guy--well, that's the price I pay for enjoying a hardcore server, right? Of all my deaths I've never been here whining about getting killed on HC. Why do pvpers whine about people successfully getting away from them?

Were I one to enjoy pvp here I would think part of the challenge (and therefore the enjoyment) of pvp on herocraft is that some people will try to run and escape. The challenge would be (should be, in fact) getting your kill before they can get away from you. The combat timer aids you, but it isn't going to hold your hand. How long do you need...really?

I'm sorry, but had we been talking about a 1v1 between two willing opponents you and I both know your reaction would be different. If someone were on these forums complaining about losing that 1v1 fight and basically admitting they lost due to their own error (or to the other guy playing better) then every serious pvper (hopefully you included) would be telling that clown to shut his trap and "l2p noob" (or whatever passes for pvp speak these days).

But here Flippin admits to screwing up and the top pvp on the server is here saying that flipp has every right to be mad that the other guy logged and he's "pathetic" for finalizing his escape by logging out. The other guy performed better, period. Just because he didn't do what you would have done in that scenario doesn't make his actions pathetic. I think Flipp is pathetic for a) not being able to catch a guy after 700 blocks and b) whining here that the guy capitalized on flipp's mistake.

I just don't get it.

Terrible example. If you see a name in the distance you can recall. My points were that it's unfair to be able to use 1 skill and be completely safe and able to log out (smoke, superjump, ex) So I suggested longer pvp timer or a npc on logout for like 10 seconds. If your far enough ahead to be "safe" in your books you can recall. That's atleast a semi decent way to escape. It's honestly a douche move and not fair in the slightest. One small mistake on the pursuers side shouldn't cost him the kill. Perhaps if you escape and get to a graveyard or recall then it's semi-fair. Back in zeal it was a banable offence. I remember once when I was over 100 blocks ahead of a pursuer in zeal my minecraft crashed. There was an admin waiting alone with 4 people in the 20 seconds I was offline. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right, even if you benefit from it.

 

[Northac]

Terrible example. If you see a name in the distance you can recall. My points were that it's unfair to be able to use 1 skill and be completely safe and able to log out (smoke, superjump, ex) So I suggested longer pvp timer or a npc on logout for like 10 seconds. If your far enough ahead to be "safe" in your books you can recall. That's atleast a semi decent way to escape. It's honestly a douche move and not fair in the slightest. One small mistake on the pursuers side shouldn't cost him the kill. Perhaps if you escape and get to a graveyard or recall then it's semi-fair. Back in zeal it was a banable offence. I remember once when I was over 100 blocks ahead of a pursuer in zeal my minecraft crashed. There was an admin waiting alone with 4 people in the 20 seconds I was offline. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right, even if you benefit from it.

So how about we get rid of those skills then? Since the use of them can enable the "escape" (read as timer wait out/ logging)
Recall has a 10 sec count as well tho (I think it was designed to prevent use in combat as well) so if you are far enough away to use it, your pursuer has either (epicly) failed or given up altogether, so it would not be considedered "combat logging".

It's not "broken" as it is, cowerdly? yes it is, but still not against the rules.
(And 10 seconds seems like a very long time when you are waiting to heal up or recall when something/someone is after you)

 

[Favith]

Terrible example. If you see a name in the distance you can recall. My points were that it's unfair to be able to use 1 skill and be completely safe and able to log out (smoke, superjump, ex) So I suggested longer pvp timer or a npc on logout for like 10 seconds. If your far enough ahead to be "safe" in your books you can recall. That's atleast a semi decent way to escape. It's honestly a douche move and not fair in the slightest. One small mistake on the pursuers side shouldn't cost him the kill. Perhaps if you escape and get to a graveyard or recall then it's semi-fair. Back in zeal it was a banable offence. I remember once when I was over 100 blocks ahead of a pursuer in zeal my minecraft crashed. There was an admin waiting alone with 4 people in the 20 seconds I was offline. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right, even if you benefit from it.

I could tear this post apart but what would be the point? You're still going to view any escape on the part of your prey as "unfair", "douchy", whatever and I'm still going to think you've got a terrible sense of entitlement when you reply.

I will say this and this isn't meant as anything personal to you since I see the same general attitude in every pvper that I've heard/read/seen complain about their idea of combat logging (not the true definition as Kainzo clarified a few posts up):

Look at how you use the phrases "semi decent" and "semi-fair" to describe someone who can get away from you long enough to not only beat the combat timer but also cast the stupidly long spell of recall to make their escape. You really don't even think that getting away THAT way is completely legit do you? You think, you honestly believe, that once you initiate combat with someone it HAS to be a fight to the death. Someone has to die--probably your prey because you aren't going to start a fight with someone you know can beat you (that'd be stupid, right?). Honestly, if you feel this way I don't even think a longer combat timer would make you happy. You want what Northac <sarcastically> suggests--get rid of all movement/escape skills so you get your kill each and every time.

If you REALLY feel that way you want a pvp server man, not this map of Herocraft. It ain't Zeal--those days are gone. I imagine the current system was implemented for a reason (to NOT be like Zeal). I get it--you liked the "good ol days". I'm old enough to feel that same way about ALOT of things....but I'm also smart enough to accept the reality of TODAY.

Giving pvpers a longer combat timer is giving them more of a crutch and making the entire point of escape skills useless. I see plenty of consensual pvp on this server (ie, raiders raid and people come out to defend so there is fighting). I see people camping graveyards. I see people hunting noobs in warshard. Is it really so bad that once in awhile someone manages to get away from you? I don't think it's killing pvp---the deathspam I see all the time suggests pvp is fine.

 

[Acherous]

Why must you guys posts walls of text? Is it so hard to write it without fluff? Q_Q

 

[Flippintuna1]

I could tear this post apart but what would be the point? You're still going to view any escape on the part of your prey as "unfair", "douchy", whatever and I'm still going to think you've got a terrible sense of entitlement when you reply.

I will say this and this isn't meant as anything personal to you since I see the same general attitude in every pvper that I've heard/read/seen complain about their idea of combat logging (not the true definition as Kainzo clarified a few posts up):

Look at how you use the phrases "semi decent" and "semi-fair" to describe someone who can get away from you long enough to not only beat the combat timer but also cast the stupidly long spell of recall to make their escape. You really don't even think that getting away THAT way is completely legit do you? You think, you honestly believe, that once you initiate combat with someone it HAS to be a fight to the death. Someone has to die--probably your prey because you aren't going to start a fight with someone you know can beat you (that'd be stupid, right?). Honestly, if you feel this way I don't even think a longer combat timer would make you happy. You want what Northac <sarcastically> suggests--get rid of all movement/escape skills so you get your kill each and every time.

If you REALLY feel that way you want a pvp server man, not this map of Herocraft. It ain't Zeal--those days are gone. I imagine the current system was implemented for a reason (to NOT be like Zeal). I get it--you liked the "good ol days". I'm old enough to feel that same way about ALOT of things....but I'm also smart enough to accept the reality of TODAY.

Giving pvpers a longer combat timer is giving them more of a crutch and making the entire point of escape skills useless. I see plenty of consensual pvp on this server (ie, raiders raid and people come out to defend so there is fighting). I see people camping graveyards. I see people hunting noobs in warshard. Is it really so bad that once in awhile someone manages to get away from you? I don't think it's killing pvp---the deathspam I see all the time suggests pvp is fine.

No, I think that combat logging is a problem in this game currently.
Running from a fight is fine as is recalling.