Suggestion Ninja

[pure_autism]

Currently, Ninja is a very powerful, very mobile class. It can basically shut down almost all Caster classes, with the exception of Pyromancer. Ninja can also do surprisingly well against Warrior classes, due to its armor penitrating skills. I think Ninja is too powerful, there are few classes that can kill it. Here's what I think would make Ninja more balanced:

Blackjack: I think this skill needs to be removed entirely. Unlike the other stuns, Blackjack is not a skillshot, has no warmup, and has no negative drawbacks. I have an idea for a skill that could replace it: Garrote. For those of you who are not familiar with it, Garrote was a skill that stunned targets. But here's the catch: You had to be holding string, crouching, and behind the target for it to work. Sounds like it is really hard to pull off in the middle of a fight, right? That's the point. Ninjas are supposed to be assassins, but I don't see how running straight at a target and instantly stunning them for 1.25+ seconds is very stealthy. In order to use this skill successfully, you to sneak up on someone while they have their back turned. This could also be given a 1 second warm-up, so the player at least has a chance to interrupt it. I'm not sure if Garrote worked if you were invisible, but I think it shouldn't matter if you're invisible or sneaking. With their sword damage and the backstab bonus, Ninjas don't need a stun to win the fight, it just makes it a lot easier.

Shuriken: To say the least, I hate shurikens. I am a Ninja myself, but I think they are easily spammable and are too good for finding an invisible player. And that's not even the worse part. As I learned when I tested it on the Test server, shurikens go through armor. I'm not sure if this was intended or just an error in the code. For a Paladin or any class with no mobility or range, these almost always mean a slow death. Because it shoots 3 arrows at once, it's disgustingly easy to hit someone with them again and again and again... Here's what I think would balance these besides removing them all-together: While active, you throw a volley of shurikens every 2 seconds for 8 seconds (can be tweaked). This skill would cost 400-500 stamina and have a 30 second cooldown. Since there would be a 2 second gap between each round, I think these could pierce armor, but have the maximum damage be 25, so they don't become too powerful. Shuriken should consume a flint each time a volley is thrown, and should end early if you don't have enough flint for 4 rounds. I think Backflip should continue to shoot shurikens if you have unlocked them.

Eviscerate: For an armor-piercing skill, I think this does too much damage. With 20 strength, this skill does an instant 170 damage through armor! If I recall correctly, Eviscerate only did 125 damage in Bastion, so I think it should either have a lower base damage, or a damage limit, which could either be 125 or around that. There are plenty of skills on this server that do less than 170 damage, have a warmup, and don't penitrate armor.

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. All negative comments, trolling remarks, and smartass responses will be pointed to and laughed at.

@LightningCape @STDs4YouAnd4Me @Delfofthebla @TheBrute2001 @malikdanab @PewPewPewLasers @Zaihn @dast101 @Jpenguin @JupiterRome @Im_a_Pickle @northeaster345 @Oudaiesty @uin153 @RagingDragon5 @hilltim1

 

[JupiterRome]

Currently, Ninja is a very powerful, very mobile class. It can basically shut down almost all Caster classes, with the exception of Pyromancer. Ninja can also do surprisingly well against Warrior classes, due to its armor penitrating skills. I think Ninja is too powerful, there are few classes that can kill it. Here's what I think would make Ninja more balanced:

Blackjack: I think this skill needs to be removed entirely. Unlike the other stuns, Blackjack is not a skillshot, has no warmup, and has no negative drawbacks. I have an idea for a skill that could replace it: Garrote. For those of you who are not familiar with it, Garrote was a skill that stunned targets. But here's the catch: You had to be holding string, crouching, and behind the target for it to work. Sounds like it is really hard to pull off in the middle of a fight, right? That's the point. Ninjas are supposed to be assassins, but I don't see how running straight at a target and instantly stunning them for 1.25+ seconds is very stealthy. In order to use this skill successfully, you to sneak up on someone while they have their back turned. This could also be given a 1 second warm-up, so the player at least has a chance to interrupt it. I'm not sure if Garrote worked if you were invisible, but I think it shouldn't matter if you're invisible or sneaking. With their sword damage and the backstab bonus, Ninjas don't need a stun to win the fight, it just makes it a lot easier.

Shuriken: To say the least, I hate shurikens. I am a Ninja myself, but I think they are easily spammable and are too good for finding an invisible player. And that's not even the worse part. As I learned when I tested it on the Test server, shurikens go through armor. I'm not sure if this was intended or just an error in the code. For a Paladin or any class with no mobility or range, these almost always mean a slow death. Because it shoots 3 arrows at once, it's disgustingly easy to hit someone with them again and again and again... Here's what I think would balance these besides removing them all-together: While active, you throw a volley of shurikens every 2 seconds for 8 seconds (can be tweaked). This skill would cost 400-500 stamina and have a 30 second cooldown. Since there would be a 2 second gap between each round, I think these could pierce armor, but have the maximum damage be 25, so they don't become too powerful. Shuriken should consume a flint each time a volley is thrown, and should end early if you don't have enough flint for 4 rounds. I think Backflip should continue to shoot shurikens if you have unlocked them.

Eviscerate: For an armor-piercing skill, I think this does too much damage. With 20 strength, this skill does an instant 170 damage through armor! If I recall correctly, Eviscerate only did 125 damage in Bastion, so I think it should either have a lower base damage, or a damage limit, which could either be 125 or around that. There are plenty of skills on this server that do less than 170 damage, have a warmup, and don't penitrate armor.

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. All negative comments, trolling remarks, and smartass responses will be pointed to and laughed at.
/quote]
I think shurkins are fine right now, it is only 30 dmg with 40 agility, Eviscerate should have a longer cool down here too, but it by no means shuts down all casters, isnt that right @LightningCape . Blackjack with enough char is insanly OP, I think Mabye replace blackjack with shadowstep... its night and there is a boost now so imma edit this later probs

 

[malikdanab]

I agree with all points, but Shuriken. I like the nature of a passive skill and don't think making it an active skill is the way to go. I'd keep how Shuriken works right now, but increase the stamina cost and delay between each volley. Overall, keep the skill the same, but make it that ninjas can't spam it as much.

In the case of Eviscerate. I think it would be nice to keep to the "stealth" play-style and make it have reduced base damage, but increased damage when invisible/sneaking.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Yeah, I learned yesterday that Shurikens went through armor. I thought it was doing so much damage because I'm a squishy Disciple, but it didn't matter if I was in full Diamond, I'd still be taking huge amounts of damage on a 0.5sec cooldown. Seems legit.

 

[malikdanab]

Yeah, I learned yesterday that Shurikens went through armor. I thought it was doing so much damage because I'm a squishy Disciple, but it didn't matter if I was in full Diamond, I'd still be taking huge amounts of damage on a 0.5sec cooldown. Seems legit.

Which is funny. The shuriken tool-tip is riddled with errors. We knew about shurikens piercing armor on test a while back, but apparently it didn't get fixed. Not only that, the tool-tip says 1 second, but it's actually 0.5. I think the problem with shuriken is to simply fix them so that they fire every second and don't pierce armor.

 

[LightningCape]

Eviscerate is fine the way it is. But...

Blackjack: I think this skill needs to be removed entirely.

Spoiler: Please

In all seriousness though it's the one skill everyone has an issue with. Ninja does not need a stun. Just scrap it.

 

[malikdanab]

If you where to add garrote, I think that smoke should have a lower CD and duration. With this, a ninja could use it more often to get his stun off and wouldn't let ninja get away for 5.5 seconds.

Currently-

• Cooldown: 45 seconds
• Duration: 5.5 seconds

Change-

• Cooldown: 25 seconds
• Duration: 3 seconds

 

[Grimsdissent]

Im fine with them all they don't bother me

 

[malikdanab]

At this point, I'd rather over nerf ninja then let it stay this OP.

 

[JupiterRome]

Oops quoted the whole thing... I think that shurkins are fine because it is a secondary weapon for ninja, it is like ranger having its axe if it gets cornered (rangers axe does fair amounts of damage) ninja has a secondary option to then, shurkins shurkins do cost stamina and if you choose to use them they can drain stamina pretty fast. @malikdanab I think you've said as soon as dk got shadowstep that it doesn't make sense and ninja should get it (might be wrong) but even though no class has shadowstep, I think blackjack should just get scraped all together and add shadowstep in its place (or a shadowstep that teleports you behind the target for X amount of seconds then teleports you back) Or another thing I was thinking about is scraping blackjack and adding frontflip? Smoke can be used to run.... but any aoe takes you out of it and it is only 5.5 seconds.

IMO Ninja is fine sept blackjack makes it OP, shurkins are pretty fine to... Imo there not "Op" they are just good, shurkins can be dodged and you have to aim them, and usaully if 1 misses they all miss. I also think eviscerate is fine because when you look at it, ninja doesn't have a lot of upfront damage, that is another reason I use shurkins as a ninja, for upfront damage

Honestly there are classes that are more op then ninja, ninja's "opness" is pretty easy to fix, scrap blackjack. Or mabye reduce damage by X percent while target is stunned?

Sorry for Bad spelling and (some may think) really bad suggestions sorta tired atm

 

[mikehk]

I also think eviscerate is fine because when you look at it, ninja doesn't have a lot of upfront damage

their backstab can add 135 damage if they have 30 agility, for a normal melee attack, which can be pretty fast. so let's say 2 hits got in, before the enemy turns around. that's 270 damage in less than a second (if they're wearing no armor of course). another thing i'd like to point out, their health... they currently have more health than any warrior except paladin. if they're supposed to be "silent assassins", then why do they need such health? while on the topic of health, bards have even higher health than paladins?

 

[JupiterRome]

their backstab can add 135 damage if they have 30 agility, for a normal melee attack, which can be pretty fast. so let's say 2 hits got in, before the enemy turns around. that's 270 damage in less than a second (if they're wearing no armor of course). another thing i'd like to point out, their health... they currently have more health than any warrior except paladin. if they're supposed to be "silent assassins", then why do they need such health? while on the topic of health, bards have even higher health than paladins?

Your More hp then paladin doesn't matter at all..... it depends on how you build it, ninja did just get an hp nerf, and by upfront dmg I meant damage per hit, NOT backstabs

 

[mikehk]

Your More hp then paladin doesn't matter at all..... it depends on how you build it, ninja did just get an hp nerf, and by upfront dmg I meant damage per hit, NOT backstabs

that's like saying wizard has no upfront damage...

 

[JupiterRome]

that's like saying wizard has no upfront damage...

How so? I do agree ninja is Op, But Ninja has really bad damage if they don't get backstabs in, right now ninja has a ton of damage cuz blackjack
you argument about wizard I dont understand, all u have to do is keep a ninja from getting behind u, if blackjack gets scrapped it wont be so hard, wizard has more spells then you have interupts and most classes cant keep a wizard silenced long enough to get the kill.

 

[mikehk]

so to make everyone happy, what if blackjack was not removed, but instead changed. insteaed of stunning, it instead gives the enemy blindness, night vision, and slowness3 for however long the stun would have normally lasted, with a small bit, maybe half the duration of the stun nausea at the end of the blind. this would nerf blackjack so that it could still be used well, but would allow people to be able to turn to what they think is facing the ninja. the reason why blindness night vision and slowness 3 would be because the blindness+night vision combo gives complete darkness... as in, the screen turns black (except your fist and whatever celestial body u can see from where you are), and sowness so the blinded person can't just run away. this would reduce the amount of backstabs, thereby only allowing a blackjack to take down maybe 3 hearts? instead of half+ of them. also require that you have to be behind the target to use it.

 

[JupiterRome]

Currently, Ninja is a very powerful, very mobile class.

Honestly it only have like 2 mobility skills

 

[pure_autism]

Honestly it only have like 2 mobility skills

Ninjas have 3, if you count EscapeArtist, which grants you a huge speed boost. Dragoon has 2 mobility skills as well, yet it is the most mobile class in the game. Backflip is basicly a reversed Jump, with a shorter cooldown and a lower stamina cost.

 

[Tjundis]

Although ninja is the most op class right now, I feel like ninjas would be infinitely less threatening without blackjack, but the role of a ninja should be to burst someone down like they can. I think most of the reason why people think ninja is op is due to the fact that it can burst HARD; hard enough to kill someone in a very short timeframe, and then they can just smoke out for an almost 100% no drawback escape.

I would suggest (as someone else has before) that blackjack be only usable in smoke, this would make the ninja have to choose between insta killing someone or getting away. It wouldn't make it impossible to get a kill and escape, but it would make it a great deal harder.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Ninjas have 3, if you count EscapeArtist, which grants you a huge speed boost. Dragoon has 2 mobility skills as well, yet it is the most mobile class in the game. Backflip is basicly a reversed Jump, with a shorter cooldown and a lower stamina cost.

Smoke is sort of a mobility skill as well, depending on your definition.

 

[malikdanab]

Smoke is sort of a mobility skill as well, depending on your definition.

It's a utility skill (Mobility is a type of utility), but could never be considered a "Mobility" skill.