Suggestion Necromancers

[Kwong050]

Necros currently do way too much dmg for what fighting utility they provide. Compared to the wizard and the beguiler, their cc skill is insanely good. It is a 6 sec lock in a web that has a .5 sec warmup. The beguiler and the wizard have a 4 sec lock and a 5 sec lock respectively. Web can also catch multiple people and it does not break on dmg onlike the wizard and the beguiler cc. Though the other 2 caster have significantly more burst, the dmg that it can provide in the short amount of time is very strong in addition with the DoT dmg. In other words, web or some other aspect of its skill set has to be changed in order to create a more balanced playing field.

 

[leftovers5]

Then again, web is a temperamental root because it's often not effective depending on what the terrain it's used in. If the target is running quickly, it may even not be effective enough to lock them in place for a desirable amount of time. Those are the reasons it is more favorable for its lock/warmup.

 

[Kwong050]

Then again, web is a temperamental root because it's often not effective depending on what the terrain it's used in. If the target is running quickly, it may even not be effective enough to lock them in place for a desirable amount of time. Those are the reasons it is more favorable for its lock/warmup.

Though I am not sure, I have noticed that every time I get webbed, when I try to run out of it, I get sent back to the center. In addition, I basing my OP on what Web is intended to do (as said in the Wiki).

 

[themeoff]

I'm not 100% on this but can't you also jump/backflip/blink/Q-leap out of the web as well making it thus useless and it affects your team's meleers as well so for the trade-offs I'd say its decently balanced. Then again I don't see many necro pvpers out and about as well so I could be wrong

 

[LightningCape]

Necro DoTs are crazy. Someone should be changed. All they need to do is land all of them and kite and they've already won.

 

[Dsawemd]

SpikesLoL is a necro pvper who is out and about.

Rather than look at cc, I would like to look at the necro's furthest ranged instant cast: Poison (15 block range). Because it is an instant cast that puts a DoT that hampers sprinting, it allows necros to kite very effectively. I would like to see its range reduced to 12. Web and Despair still have 15 block range, allowing the necro to cc and kite, rather than "180 degree turn, instant cast DoT, 180 turn, sprint" version of kiting we have now. Poison has a similar staggering effect to your sprint (and then applies the same every 2 secs for 13 secs) as kick or smite does, at almost 4 times the range.

Compared to the wizard and the beguiler, their cc skill is insanely good. It is a 6 sec lock in a web that has a .5 sec warmup. The beguiler and the wizard have a 4 sec lock and a 5 sec lock respectively. Web can also catch multiple people and it does not break on dmg onlike the wizard and the beguiler cc.

But: Root has no warm-up and is designed to precede a warm-up damage spell like Bolt (why it breaks on dmg), and Beguiler has 3 cc's (pig, mass pig, beguile). Necro cc's cannot break on damage as they are a tick damage heavy class. Necro's cc also, as themeoff pointed out it can affect the necro's own team. You cannot really compare these classes as simplistically as the OP seems to.

Necro DoTs are crazy. Someone should be changed. All they need to do is land all of them and kite and they've already won.

I agree, if they land ALL their skills and kite, they win. I am not disagreeing that necro may need a look, but this quote^ does not highlight the reasons at all. If a DoTing class can land ALL their skills without getting their squishy ass beat in, then they deserve to win. And you cannot say "harmshield gg" because they would have to swap 40 mana from damage to harmshield.

edit: I have no problems with necro's myself, I find them easy to face, but I expect that is because its more difficult for a necro to kite against a ranger than a melee class.

 

[Kwong050]

From my experience, wizards and beguilers are fine (as a ninja) but when fighting necros, all they need is to land the web. That amount of dmg that the necro DoT's do when you are stuck in place is way too high. The instant dmg is when all dmg skills are placed on one target is 271. That is 5 dmg more that the wizard bolt. Though the difference is very small, there is absolutely no skill in the necro's skill set that can be silenced or interrupted (besides web which has a tiny 0.5 sec warmup). Note that the 271 dmg is ONLY the instant dmg. There is still about 15 secs of dmg ticks that are still being applied to you. The wizard and the beguiler dmg is all burst (except fire tick dmg). It is about 500 dmg on about the same cooldown. It still might seem even because the wizard has a little more dmg, BUT the necro has healing, a lock that has a longer range and a shorter cooldown. In other words, the necro skill set definatly has more potiental to it that the wizard

themeoff , I am not too sure of this. It should prob be tested on.

In addition, all cc escaping abilities (IE: escapeartist) does not work on web but does work on root and piggify.

 

[HolyRane]

I find necro to be the worst caster spec tbh, every other class is way more powerful in just about every aspect.

 

[UltimateOptics]

I find necro to be the worst caster spec tbh, every other class is way more powerful in just about every aspect.

Are you mad? A good necro is fucking OP

 

[Kwong050]

I find necro to be the worst caster spec tbh, every other class is way more powerful in just about every aspect.

you prob have never fought a necro 1v1 before (as a ninja)

 

[leftovers5]

Though I am not sure, I have noticed that every time I get webbed, when I try to run out of it, I get sent back to the center. In addition, I basing my OP on what Web is intended to do (as said in the Wiki).

Yeah, I understand that much. The Wiki though often doesn't give you the most realistic scenarios in game.

 

[Kwong050]

Yeah, I understand that much. The Wiki though often doesn't give you the most realistic scenarios in game.

true...

 

[leftovers5]

In addition, all cc escaping abilities (IE: escapeartist) does not work on web but does work on root and piggify.

That is a good point... I'll consider this. I'll try to look at Necro/Samurai next for balancing.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. Note that the 271 dmg is ONLY the instant dmg.

2. In addition, all cc escaping abilities (IE: escapeartist) does not work on web but does work on root and piggify.

1. 271 damage, from a series of 3-4 skills, is comparable to ninja sword spam in the same amount of time it take to use those skills, isnt it? Also I haven't checked your math, but Necro has 3 DoTs, and I think you may have included their spells like Despair in your calculations. Edit: reread the quoted post, yes you said all damaging skills, but that would be more like 4-5 skills and definitely comparable to what hard hitting melee can do in that period of time.

edit: Lazy math brings me to about 75 damage every 2-3 seconds for the DoTs, after the instant damage. Did not take into account non-DoT spells that would also be used.

2. Fix this, and we should not have a problem. Although I heard that backflip works to escape web, does it? I think escape artist should remove web. It has a 2 min cooldown compared to Web's 14 seconds.

 

[_Maxo]

Despair has a 6 block range not 15, and you can't cast a spell on a target who is being covered by the web itself.... wana kill a necro easy? dont run face to face with them. Use the surroundings to your advantage and catch them off guard and silence them before they can do anything... in an open field against a necromancer you are asking for death as they can kite you with no limits.. You can't just run up to a class and expect to win every fight... you need to be situational and strategic. Try and fight in tight spaces as necros have no real mobility/escape.

SpikesLoL is a necro pvper who is out and about.

Rather than look at cc, I would like to look at the necro's furthest ranged instant cast: Poison (15 block range). Because it is an instant cast that puts a DoT that hampers sprinting, it allows necros to kite very effectively. I would like to see its range reduced to 12. Web and Despair still have 15 block range, allowing the necro to cc and kite, rather than "180 degree turn, instant cast DoT, 180 turn, sprint" version of kiting we have now. Poison has a similar staggering effect to your sprint (and then applies the same every 2 secs for 13 secs) as kick or smite does, at almost 4 times the range.



But: Root has no warm-up and is designed to precede a warm-up damage spell like Bolt (why it breaks on dmg), and Beguiler has 3 cc's (pig, mass pig, beguile). Necro cc's cannot break on damage as they are a tick damage heavy class. Necro's cc also, as themeoff pointed out it can affect the necro's own team. You cannot really compare these classes as simplistically as the OP seems to.



I agree, if they land ALL their skills and kite, they win. I am not disagreeing that necro may need a look, but this quote^ does not highlight the reasons at all. If a DoTing class can land ALL their skills without getting their squishy ass beat in, then they deserve to win. And you cannot say "harmshield gg" because they would have to swap 40 mana from damage to harmshield.

edit: I have no problems with necro's myself, I find them easy to face, but I expect that is because its more difficult for a necro to kite against a ranger than a melee class.

 

[huntmoak]

Are you mad? A good necro is fucking OP

Any "Good (Insert class here)" Is OP

 

[Dsawemd]

Despair has a 6 block range not 15

I get my info straight from the wiki, which said as of these posts:

DESPAIR:
You deal (50 + 0.1-per-level) damage and blind all enemies within 6 blocks of your target (within 15 blocks) for 5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.

*End wiki quote*

I take this to mean that a target within 15 blocks can be hit, and once they are, they become an epicenter of despair, with enemies 6 blocks around the target also being affected.

If the skill actually works like this, the greatest distance you could be from a necro and still be hit by despair is actually 21 blocks, assuming there is an original target to allow the chain reaction.

 

[Bonafideb3ast]

I get my info straight from the wiki, which said as of these posts:

DESPAIR:
You deal (50 + 0.1-per-level) damage and blind all enemies within 6 blocks of your target (within 15 blocks) for 5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.

*End wiki quote*

I take this to mean that a target within 15 blocks can be hit, and once they are, they become an epicenter of despair, with enemies 6 blocks around the target also being affected.

If the skill actually works like this, the greatest distance you could be from a necro and still be hit by despair is actually 21 blocks, assuming there is an original target to allow the chain reaction.

Its not a change reaction. You have to pe standing 6 blocks from the target to hit them.....You might be confused with plague..... (never trust the wiki)

 

[_Maxo]

Well... its not correct. The Caster IS the epicenter of the spell and it extends 6 blocks of the casters reach... end of story

 

[Dsawemd]

Its not a change reaction. You have to pe standing 6 blocks from the target to hit them.....You might be confused with plague..... (never trust the wiki)

I will be bug reporting this, then, as the skill would be much cooler if it worked as the wiki describes. Please, necros, I will edit this with a link, go to the report and confirm. Thanks.

edit: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/necro-skill-despair.31022/