Suggestion Mons's class system

[MonsTheSexy]

Hey guys, i just want to share what i think would be a cool class system for either next restart or when ever. I discovered it while playing Dragon-nest a while back, well its actually from the game.

It introduces a 5 tier starting classes(could be smaller starter tier) the breaks into 2 more clases. These 2 clases form into a choice of 2 different classes.

This is the class system from the game i explained. Not only does it allow for higher ranking skills, but it allows for less overall skills/recycled skills per class(since they are inherited from the last class). ex. Cleric and scribe both have dispel....almost all wizards have fireball.

Now im not suggesting we take all the classes of this tree specifically. I would just prefer that we have clases With a higher amount of levels, and include high power skills.

Skills of classes (referencing skill tree image above)

• Tier - Lost soul -
• Tier I starts with your weaker small pokey abilities, which apply for easier farming of mobs (to level).
• Tier II includes a few combo moves that can possibly add up to some nice damage.
• Tier III-IV includes the high damage/high risk abilities.
• All skills are inherited from the class before so Tier I inherits from Tier II

Note: Tier III-IV are in reference to the picture above and are the same level of class
Other featuresof the class system

• Higher level classes allow for players who are more experienced enjoy their mained class, instead of leveling it to 60 within a few weeks of starting and getting bored :/.
• More money out of the economy when people spec multiple times in maxing one class.
• Easier to see how strong a player is by their class.
• -Karma can be applied to killing players of an extreme level difference (if you initiate fight).
• +Karma can be applied to killing players of near equal levels.

Note: i made this at 5:30am so ill add more in the morning <3​

Please suggest some more features that can fit into this class system, thanks ​

Also give me your opinion feedback.​

​

In reply to what the system is relative to class wise.

Here is an example:
first tier is lets say a class called support
second tier is would then be a type of support being Buffer or healer
Third tier and fourth tier would then be:
Buffer -goes to> Attacker, or Defender
Healer -goes to> Group, or solo

Also tier 3 inherits skills from 1+2 as tier 2 does from 1

This shows that relatively close classes can have different main focuses which allows for a wide variety of play variety.​

​

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Extra Features suggested but unrelated to topic

• Physical reagents like paper for bandaging or a fence with a block on top to symbolize a relic to enable an aoe buff location.

 

[Kainzo]

I see a lot of cross-overs / overlaps even in the Physician / Priest.
PS: I only see 4 tiers.... Lostsoul counts as Tier 0.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

I see a lot of cross-overs / overlaps even in the Physician / Priest.
PS: I only see 4 tiers.... Lostsoul counts as Tier 0.

Priest is a magic healer and physician is a physical healer and cross-overs? explain.
also idk what your talking about in your PS >.>

 

[Kainzo]

Priest is a magic healer and physician is a physical healer and cross-overs? explain.
also idk what your talking about in your PS >.>

Physical / Magical - whats the difference?

 

[Dsawemd]

Physical / Magical - whats the difference?

Physical heals tend to be more focused on managing actual health level, with little focus on HoTs or cleansing debuffs (exception: Bleeds) while magical tends to be less direct health management (more AoE and HoTs than the "surgeon"ish builds), and more focused on status management (exception: usually not bleeds).

Edit: this is an interpretation, but I think it has decent merit based on general lore/previous interpretations.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

Physical heals tend to be more focused on managing actual health level, with little focus on HoTs or cleansing debuffs (exception: Bleeds) while magical tends to be less direct health management (more AoE and HoTs than the "surgeon"ish builds), and more focused on status management (exception: usually not bleeds).

Edit: this is an interpretation, but I think it has decent merit based on general lore/previous interpretations.

physician is more chemical, lets say like a shot of adrenaline to give you a speed boost. Priest is magical such as a prayer to give your party a boost in damage or a holy relic to call forth healing in a location.

using a bandage(possibly with items like paper) or using mana to cast

 

[Dsawemd]

physician is more chemical, lets say like a shot of adrenaline to give you a speed boost. Priest is magical such as a prayer to give your party a boost in damage or a holy relic to call forth healing in a location.

using a bandage(possibly with items like paper) or using mana to cast

This quote seems to address the differences in lore without really outlining what your proposed class revamp specifics will be (also please use minimal variety of terms, so we all do not get confused by Physical/Physician/Chemical).

From this quote we learn that your system considers a speed buff a Physician (physical blood and gore healer) trait, while a Damage buff is a Priest (Magical light and prayer healer) trait. Fine, fine. We also learn that a totemic/"placed AoE" heal is priest/magical. Also fine. But what we do not learn is the over-arching trade-offs, varieties, and specialties that you are suggesting each of the 2 types of healer should embody.

I am intrigued by your last comment. Making certain paths less Resource (mana, stam) and more Reagent (paper for bandage etc.) based could increase spec variety, but it also forces us to consider Reagent Management (controlling the ease of access to reagents) when the community considers balance. Reagents are trickier limiters to use on skills than limiting them through Resource, since the ease of stocking Reagents varies between players and play experiences.

edit: I understand this suggestion to be a revamp of the class structure, not to be suggesting ALL these new class names, but just for the lols, what dafuq is a Shooting Star class?
edit2: A Shooting Star appears to be a Mechamancer type build, w/pet tanking and dmg etc.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

This quote seems to address the differences in lore without really outlining what your proposed class revamp specifics will be (also please use minimal variety of terms, so we all do not get confused by Physical/Physician/Chemical).

From this quote we learn that your system considers a speed buff a Physician (physical blood and gore healer) trait, while a Damage buff is a Priest (Magical light and prayer healer) trait. Fine, fine. We also learn that a totemic/"placed AoE" heal is priest/magical. Also fine. But what we do not learn is the over-arching trade-offs, varieties, and specialties that you are suggesting each of the 2 types of healer should embody.

I am intrigued by your last comment. Making certain paths less Resource (mana, stam) and more Reagent (paper for bandage etc.) based could increase spec variety, but it also forces us to consider Reagent Management (controlling the ease of access to reagents) when the community considers balance. Reagents are trickier limiters to use on skills than limiting them through Resource, since the ease of stocking Reagents varies between players and play experiences.

edit: I understand this suggestion to be a revamp of the class structure, not to be suggesting ALL these new class names, but just for the lols, what dafuq is a Shooting Star class?
edit2: A Shooting Star appears to be a Mechamancer type build, w/pet tanking and dmg etc.

basically uses a giant robo slave to kill stuff
As for the skills they are just example of what physical and magical are

 

[kirinelf]

The main thing Kainzo was getting at is not the lore-based differences. It's basically this:

What skills do a Priest and a Physician have that have the same effect?

Ignoring the whole physical and magical difference, in the end if you have two classes that do the exact same thing (Both give speed boosts, for example, even if one gives it via a stimulant and the other via a blessing), you're going to have a redundant class. Especially since the Priest is a Tier 2 class and the Physician is a Tier 4.

That said, the idea itself bears merit, in my opinion. I like the idea of having more than one tier, simply so that it'll make it easier to know the strength, skill and experience of your opponent. If you could come up with roughly two skills per tier (Since they stack up, right?) that are unique, have little overlap and fit the Minecraft and Herocraft theme; it might make your suggestion look more appealing.

There'll almost definitely be some overlap, I'm expecting, since you'll probably want some sort of healing ability on each tree, a damage skill, maybe a DoT, etc. Just try and put their own unique spin on them. See what you come up with.

 

[Delfofthebla]

While I think revamping the class system is both a cool idea and a very necessary action to make for a map wipe, I question if this is really the right way to go.

Regardless of the classes you listed, I'm not sure I like the "system" itself. You basically list 5 base classes, each of which split into two classes each. This makes up a total of 10, 2 of which are professions. (Which, in our current system, you have 4 per base class, while also allowing them to maintain a profession). The tier format you propose is a nothing more than a glorified leveling system with pretty names. These names will be confusing to newer players, and probably even veterans--at least for a while.

I think levels are the simplest and most effective way to signify ones "progress" through their class. However, on Herocraft, there are a couple of glaring issues with the leveling system.

First off, there is no real "PvE" on Herocraft. This means that levels 1-59 are basically just there to consume your time. It is not "fun" to level, and there is no real progression. You find a swamp, you set up an outpost, and you camp there until your maxed. That's just how it is.

Secondly, you level too fast and the "skill progression" of most classes is lackluster and awkward. Some classes get their "primary skills" from an early level, whereas others don't receive them until 55-60 (Beguiler and Ninja are good examples here.)

And Lastly, the methods in which professions "level" is counter-intuitive and not very enjoyable. Basically every class is a miner except farmer, which is really stupid. An alchemist should gain experience from making potions--not spending 10 hours hunting diamonds.

Right now, at least for me, the purpose of the "Heroes" plugin is entirely pvp based. Players can spec into a class that sounds "fun" to them, and they spend their time playing this class with their townmates or close friends in order to kill other players. Maybe they'll run solo, maybe they'll run duo, maybe they run around with a full 10 man party. Regardless of how they wish to play, chances are, if they're "using" their combat class, it's for PVP. Sure, some classes have more utility, such as Dragoon or Wizard, but the ultimate function is combat against other players.
---


I don't know if a map wipe is necessarily required for a big system revamp, but I think before we consider how classes should be named or what they will do, it is better to discuss just how you want a future Herocraft class system to function.

Do you want more PVE?
If so, what do you want out of the PVE?

Do you want more PVP?
If so, what do you want out of the PVP?

That kind of stuff.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

The main thing Kainzo was getting at is not the lore-based differences. It's basically this:

What skills do a Priest and a Physician have that have the same effect?

Ignoring the whole physical and magical difference, in the end if you have two classes that do the exact same thing (Both give speed boosts, for example, even if one gives it via a stimulant and the other via a blessing), you're going to have a redundant class. Especially since the Priest is a Tier 2 class and the Physician is a Tier 4.

That said, the idea itself bears merit, in my opinion. I like the idea of having more than one tier, simply so that it'll make it easier to know the strength, skill and experience of your opponent. If you could come up with roughly two skills per tier (Since they stack up, right?) that are unique, have little overlap and fit the Minecraft and Herocraft theme; it might make your suggestion look more appealing.

There'll almost definitely be some overlap, I'm expecting, since you'll probably want some sort of healing ability on each tree, a damage skill, maybe a DoT, etc. Just try and put their own unique spin on them. See what you come up with.

While I think revamping the class system is both a cool idea and a very necessary action to make for a NO, I question if this is really the right way to go.

Regardless of the classes you listed, I'm not sure I like the "system" itself. You basically list 5 base classes, each of which split into two classes each. This makes up a total of 10, 2 of which are professions. (Which, in our current system, you have 4 per base class, while also allowing them to maintain a profession). The tier format you propose is a nothing more than a glorified leveling system with pretty names. These names will be confusing to newer players, and probably even veterans--at least for a while.

I think levels are the simplest and most effective way to signify ones "progress" through their class. However, on Herocraft, there are a couple of glaring issues with the leveling system.

First off, there is no real "PvE" on Herocraft. This means that levels 1-59 are basically just there to consume your time. It is not "fun" to level, and there is no real progression. You find a swamp, you set up an outpost, and you camp there until your maxed. That's just how it is.

Secondly, you level too fast and the "skill progression" of most classes is lackluster and awkward. Some classes get their "primary skills" from an early level, whereas others don't receive them until 55-60 (Beguiler and Ninja are good examples here.)

And Lastly, the methods in which professions "level" is counter-intuitive and not very enjoyable. Basically every class is a miner except farmer, which is really stupid. An alchemist should gain experience from making potions--not spending 10 hours hunting diamonds.

Right now, at least for me, the purpose of the "Heroes" plugin is entirely pvp based. Players can spec into a class that sounds "fun" to them, and they spend their time playing this class with their townmates or close friends in order to kill other players. Maybe they'll run solo, maybe they'll run duo, maybe they run around with a full 10 man party. Regardless of how they wish to play, chances are, if they're "using" their combat class, it's for PVP. Sure, some classes have more utility, such as Dragoon or Wizard, but the ultimate function is combat against other players.
---


I don't know if a NO is necessarily required for a big system revamp, but I think before we consider how classes should be named or what they will do, it is better to discuss just how you want a future Herocraft class system to function.

Do you want more PVE?
If so, what do you want out of the PVE?

Do you want more PVP?
If so, what do you want out of the PVP?

That kind of stuff.

This must be a joke.... People who dont listen and rant about nonsense is annoying.
I not only made it large in text, but i put some red in there too.

Now im not suggesting we take all the classes of this tree specifically. I would just prefer that we have clases With a higher amount of levels, and include high power skills.

That being said i'll now address the points made relating to the thread...
Having more tiers and a high level cap would make your class last longer and have veteran players have something to show for all their time playing. Right now classes are maxxed out quickly and i believe the server would be more fun if this didn't happen. Perhaps making leveling not such a grinding is a thing to be worked on.

 

[Delfofthebla]

This must be a joke.... People who dont listen and rant about nonsense is annoying.
I not only made it large in text, but i put some red in there too.

I believe you are the person that did not listen. I specifically addressed the class system you proposed directly, rather than commenting on the classes themselves.

Regardless of the classes you listed, I'm not sure I like the "system" itself. You basically list 5 base classes, each of which split into two classes each. This makes up a total of 10, 2 of which are professions. (Which, in our current system, you have 4 per base class, while also allowing them to maintain a profession). The tier format you propose is a nothing more than a glorified leveling system with pretty names. These names will be confusing to newer players, and probably even veterans--at least for a while.

Yes, I brought up the specific number of classes that you listed, but that is irrelevant. You could have listed 6, 10, 20 or even 30, and my response would be the same. I am commenting on the design of your class system, nothing more.

To reaaally narrow it down for you,

The tier format you propose is a nothing more than a glorified leveling system with pretty names.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

I believe you are the person that did not listen. I specifically addressed the class system you proposed directly, rather than commenting on the classes themselves.



Yes, I brought up the specific number of classes that you listed, but that is irrelevant. You could have listed 6, 10, 20 or even 30, and my response would be the same. I am commenting on the design of your class system, nothing more.

To reaaally narrow it down for you,

Where do pretty names come in? or a leveling system? I am suggesting that if we have classes break of into more classes and once again, with this method it would be easier to maintain and much more fun.
The current class system has a short tier 1 which is warrior for example then a large tier 2 to level the rest

Here is an example:
first tier is lets say a class called support
second tier is would then be a type of support being Buffer or healer
Third tier and fourth tier would then be:
Buffer -goes to> Attacker, or Defender
Healer -goes to> Group, or solo

Also tier 3 inherits skills from 1+2 as tier 2 does from 1

 

[kirinelf]

This must be a joke.... People who dont listen and rant about nonsense is annoying.
I not only made it large in text, but i put some red in there too.

That being said i'll now address the points made relating to the thread...
Having more tiers and a high level cap would make your class last longer and have veteran players have something to show for all their time playing. Right now classes are maxxed out quickly and i believe the server would be more fun if this didn't happen. Perhaps making leveling not such a grinding is a thing to be worked on.

I'm tempted to agree with Delf. Did you finished reading my post? Here, I'll quote it for you as well, and I'll even bold the important bit.

The main thing Kainzo was getting at is not the lore-based differences. It's basically this:

What skills do a Priest and a Physician have that have the same effect?

Ignoring the whole physical and magical difference, in the end if you have two classes that do the exact same thing (Both give speed boosts, for example, even if one gives it via a stimulant and the other via a blessing), you're going to have a redundant class. Especially since the Priest is a Tier 2 class and the Physician is a Tier 4.

That said, the idea itself bears merit, in my opinion. I like the idea of having more than one tier, simply so that it'll make it easier to know the strength, skill and experience of your opponent. If you could come up with roughly two skills per tier (Since they stack up, right?) that are unique, have little overlap and fit the Minecraft and Herocraft theme; it might make your suggestion look more appealing.

There'll almost definitely be some overlap, I'm expecting, since you'll probably want some sort of healing ability on each tree, a damage skill, maybe a DoT, etc. Just try and put their own unique spin on them. See what you come up with.

I like brainstorming as well as the next guy, but it's hard doing it with someone who doesn't take criticism well.

 

[MonsTheSexy]

I'm tempted to agree with Delf. Did you finished reading my post? Here, I'll quote it for you as well, and I'll even bold the important bit.



I like brainstorming as well as the next guy, but it's hard doing it with someone who doesn't take criticism well.

I was addressing the fact that you didn't understand my thread so in the second part of my post i hoped to elaborate the part i hope you did understand <3

 

[kirinelf]

I was addressing the fact that you didn't understand my thread so in the second part of my post i hoped to elaborate the part i hope you did understand <3

And I for my part hope you understand that I was just clarifying what Kainzo said. You didn't seem to understand what he said, elaborating on why there're differences between physical and magical causes when the effects are the same here:

physician is more chemical, lets say like a shot of adrenaline to give you a speed boost. Priest is magical such as a prayer to give your party a boost in damage or a holy relic to call forth healing in a location.

using a bandage(possibly with items like paper) or using mana to cast

Which does not matter at all, the end result is that you have classes with duplicate skills. That's all I was getting at.

And again, from my post above, have examples of skills that you would give each class and there might be more positive response.

 

[Grandsoulking]

truthfully all class systems are basically the same thing with pretty names the only independent lvling system is a system that improves u based upon ur use of specific weapons or styles (magic for anyone who doesn't know)

 

[Templar_James]

Or instead of making a new class system you can just make new classes

 

[MonsTheSexy]

Or instead of making a new class system you can just make new classes

Well that is something completely different... let me ask you this would you like new classes with this class system or the current one?

truthfully all class systems are basically the same thing with pretty names the only independent lvling system is a system that improves u based upon ur use of specific weapons or styles (magic for anyone who doesn't know)

You lost me :/

 

[kirinelf]

truthfully all class systems are basically the same thing with pretty names the only independent lvling system is a system that improves u based upon ur use of specific weapons or styles (magic for anyone who doesn't know)

That gave me an idea. There's a Bukkit mod out there called mcMMO, which most of you have already heard of. What if there was a way to integrate it with Heroes, so instead of bulk levels you get skills at certain levels in mcMMO in certain classes? Say you're a Dragoon. You'll get some skills when you level up Acrobatics, some skills when you level up Swords, maybe have a new skill called Spears/Spades or something like that.

But eh, that's starting to derail the thread. xD