Suggestion Map longevity...

[Parsalin]

Hello guys trying to think up some ways to help the map last longer, Feel free to comment and add to it.

In my opinion, one of the main reasons a map becomes burnt out is due to a couple of things that are finite.

Plots
Ores
PVE

Plots,they offer a uniquely (unfairly) permanent way of storing loot for our non-grouping types. You know the like, the ones who would betray any group they got affiliated with. But because its semi permanent (map resets and getting PEd for inactivity), This creates a power dynamic that means those who were here first simply cant be raided at all. so they can raid without losing anything but some armor durability.

UltNachopony suggests the best way to balance [noble plots] is change it to both a high initial cost to buy one, and a high taxation rate and cannot stress how annoying it was to see the "top" PvPers hide all their loot in spawn.

Ores, Yup we have all seen it people mining simply to level not because they need/want resources. Id like to offer a few ideas on this:

A. Mines, either convert the mines in towns to burn power to replace ores (which can be mined up), or create pvp locations where ores can be mined, and pvpers can camp. the latter could respawn weekly or daily depending on your desire to balance. The point is resources are plenty, exp is desired and it ruins the map after a month or two.

B. Regen below 30, This seems the most server resource intensive, but there are ways around this. You could for instance only do a couple chunks a day. It should also ignore chunks associated with a town which could be buggy. but this option offers the smallest impact to balance. It can also be abused unless you can randomize the regeneration.

C. Change profession growth, Ultimately the issue is that people mine not for resources but for exp. This burns the map much faster then any other server would see it happen. So you could avoid the burn out by giving other ways to gain prof exp. most have something but few will deter just mining. (with the exception of farmer.)
​

A suggestion by TheTMTrainer is a mining world that resets every week or so.It could be small full pvp with strong mobs, and a mild spawn point.

Oh! and i just thought what if it was a cave world that could be pretty awesome. call it going deep under ground, where the plates of the worlds crust are always churning so the terrain changes regularly.

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PVE, I would also like to see a war system in pve. which allows for pve towns to be attacked and once war is declared town members are full pvp even in pve. this might be a tad tricky to work out but without it your going to see pvp being uninhabited except for what ever reason you create for people to visit and those fool hearty enough to want to be raided constantly. So far I have seen no reason to live in pvp. I know I am going to take the perfect safety of pve for storing my loot and only risk my reagents when i want to.

So to expand on the basic concept of wars in towns, Id like to also add in a town flag, meaning your town rack up neutral kills and over a certain theshold and your town loses peacful status becomes nuetral then murderous. this implys your killing peaceful types. also id like to remind that the war feature in 3.0 is a double edged sword, when you kill you lower the towns power when you die you lower your own towns power. Further, it is expensive. Finally the raider would have to actually be in a town. So them solo raiders still cant effect pve towns.

Have an opinion, something to add? Maybe you absolutely want a perfectly peaceful town. Comment here. Lets have a discussion about these points.

 

[TheTMTrainer]

The mining issue could be solved with a dedicated mining world... bi-weekly resets of a 1000x1000 world randomly generated. Perhaps this world can be PvP AND have a high mob level with mobs spawning increased (mobs here wouldn't give exp) so that it is a risk for people to go there unless they are geared.

Additionally, "Mythic Mobs" could potentially have a large quantity of ores drop dependent on difficulty and level of mob to make it so mining isn't the only way you can obtain ores. Though this can pose the issue of these mobs being too good...)

If PvE was truly an issue, they would have set up separate inventories for both maps so that you couldn't store things in one map and PvP in the other map. On the flip side now that both maps are combined there might be an issue where half the map is a baron wasteland where the other half is overly developed.

 

[Watermelon_01]

Maybe regenerating ores that randomly reset in location will work

 

[Irishman81]

The main problem I'm seeing is that besides building, PVE doesn't really seem to offer that much fun gameplay, maybe that's just me. I think there needs to be some sort of incentive to play on pvp, because there really isnt

 

[drgnavenger]

The main problem I'm seeing is that besides building, PVE doesn't really seem to offer that much fun gameplay, maybe that's just me. I think there needs to be some sort of incentive to play on pvp, because there really isnt

this coming from the guy who gets ALL of his friends that are online and harass players in the field and chase them to the graveyard constantly kill them along with random fuck all acts of inconsiderate violence give me a good reason to be in pvp cause that is the reason i avoid it 1v 3 to 5+ is a real kill joy for pvp especially when you harass the lower leveled people

 

[Jrr_]

this coming from the guy who gets ALL of his friends that are online and harass players in the field and chase them to the graveyard constantly kill them along with random fuck all acts of inconsiderate violence give me a good reason to be in pvp cause that is the reason i avoid it 1v 3 to 5+ is a real kill joy for pvp especially when you harass the lower leveled people

no violence in minecraft, it is a box filled with boxes

 

[Parsalin]

The mining issue could be solved with a dedicated mining world... bi-weekly resets of a 1000x1000 world randomly generated. Perhaps this world can be PvP AND have a high mob level with mobs spawning increased (mobs here wouldn't give exp) so that it is a risk for people to go there unless they are geared.

Additionally, "Mythic Mobs" could potentially have a large quantity of ores drop dependent on difficulty and level of mob to make it so mining isn't the only way you can obtain ores. Though this can pose the issue of these mobs being too good...)

If PvE was truly an issue, they would have set up separate inventories for both maps so that you couldn't store things in one map and PvP in the other map. On the flip side now that both maps are combined there might be an issue where half the map is a baron wasteland where the other half is overly developed.

I think the main point of this new map is that everything is on one map. so seperating out the mining to another map would defeat that intention. and would just move the pvpers to that map. I also think locations of interest would be the best way to do it somthing perhaps that can be claimed for a day then fought over. a resource mine that regens every day would very much be interesting.

any pve wasnt an inssue because pvp had plots that all the main bad guys could hold up perminantly safe in. one even told me if they didnt exist hed live in pve to store his loot.

Maybe regenerating ores that randomly reset in location will work

Its certainly one way to go about it but i think it would be the least interesting and possibly the most server demanding depending on how its implemented that and caves would suddenly be cut off when a new seed generates things.

The main problem I'm seeing is that besides building, PVE doesn't really seem to offer that much fun gameplay, maybe that's just me. I think there needs to be some sort of incentive to play on pvp, because there really isnt

Your right i have seen somthing mentioned about souls for kills perhaps but why when you can punch wheat for souls? add to all this that an adventure map will be comming futher dividing the player base again which is grand (very much looking forward to it) but who will ya'll harass if everyone is pve ing.

this coming from the guy who gets ALL of his friends that are online and harass players in the field and chase them to the graveyard constantly kill them along with random fuck all acts of inconsiderate violence give me a good reason to be in pvp cause that is the reason i avoid it 1v 3 to 5+ is a real kill joy for pvp especially when you harass the lower leveled people

every game needs a bad guy, tough ones that force people to group up. it would be nice if there was somthing in place to discurage nub killing a bit but thats what this server is made for. pvp and hard survival. its so when you finally make it youve acomplished somthing. they do suck though.

 

[Eneokun]

Plots,they offer a uniquely (unfairly) permanent way of storing loot for our non-grouping types. You know the like, the ones who would betray any group they got affiliated with. But because its semi permanent (map resets and getting PEd for inactivity), This creates a power dynamic that means those who were here first simply cant be raided at all. so they can raid without losing anything but some armor durability.

Plots will be required and have been requested by the playerbase. They will be there but, at my guess, a little bit more expensive than they were on Sanctuary/Aegis. They won't take this feature out if you hope for that and Kainzo already announced plots to be implemented with release of Valorium.

Ores, Yup we have all seen it people mining simply to level not because they need/want resources. Id like to offer a few ideas on this:

A. Mines, either convert the mines in towns to burn power to replace ores (which can be mined up), or create pvp locations where ores can be mined, and pvpers can camp. the latter could respawn weekly or daily depending on your desire to balance. The point is resources are plenty, exp is desired and it ruins the map after a month or two.

B. Regen below 30, This seems the most server resource intensive, but there are ways around this. You could for instance only do a couple chunks a day. It should also ignore chunks associated with a town which could be buggy. but this option offers the smallest impact to balance. It can also be abused unless you can randomize the regeneration.

C. Change profession growth, Ultimately the issue is that people mine not for resources but for exp. This burns the map much faster then any other server would see it happen. So you could avoid the burn out by giving other ways to gain prof exp. most have something but few will deter just mining. (with the exception of farmer.)
​

​

I've asked about the release of an additional resource map in the Valorium main announcement thread, but didn't get a reply. This is definitely something that needs to be added.
I see no big issues in the implementation of that. It should be very easy to just create a random seed, build a little spawn area and add 2 portals to either maps, Valorium & the resource map. I suggest to finally release the Necropolis map for this.

I would also like to see a war system in pve. which allows for pve towns to be attacked and once war is declared town members are full pvp even in pve. this might be a tad tricky to work out but without it your going to see pvp being uninhabited except for what ever reason you create for people to visit and those fool hearty enough to want to be raided constantly. So far I have seen no reason to live in pvp. I know I am going to take the perfect safety of pve for storing my loot and only risk my reagents when i want to..

New Map - Valorium:
Contested regions will be around the middle and there will be a centralized marketplace accessible by either spawn. Later, there will be methods to openly flag yourself as PVP attackable even in PVP-OFF areas but that will be released in a future update.

Contested Areas:
These areas, close to the center of the map, will fall in and out of war during the day. Four hours of peace and one hour of war. During war time, players may attack by other players and will be awarded currency when slaying others.

War Time Regions: http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/war-time-regions.55672/

He thought of that forced PvP system into PvE before, that's all I can say to this. You cannot expect it to be there on release already, since he seems to be pushing the map release now, but he has mentioned it before. I assume this is all you will get regarding PvP in PvE.

 

[j2gay]

OK since you are pretty new here perhaps a few things need to be explained to you.

Forced PvP on PvE: The reason Kainzo and his team originally created a PvE map is because we were losing a large portion of our player base due to the inescapable harassment associated with HC PvP. This map at first was entirely separate, no items or souls transferred the idea being that people would PvE when they wanted and PvP when they wanted and live two separate HC lives. It didn't work, most players didn't have time for two lives so PvE people stayed in PvE and PvP people started leaving because they had no victims.

The next map release saw a system where the maps were separate but items and souls did transfer. (this is where you started) This was an improvement at first and many people mined and leveled on PvE but lived on PvP. Then TnT was introduced making regions on towns and residences vulnerable on the PvP map. Within a week the PvP map population dropped by half as people moved their homes to PvE where their stuff could be safe. The remaining PvP population slowly dwindled due to a lack of victims. Some moved to PvE permanently, some just quit playing. That is where we are now. A crippled server with most of its remaining population hiding on PvE waiting for it to get better.

To recap - attempts to "force" people to PvP in an effort to give the vocal PvP camp more of the defenseless victims they were demanding was causing an exodus of players from the server. A system was designed to keep these people from leaving the server entirely, while on the PvP map implementing more systems to "force" PvP and provide victims. These systems in turn caused more people to leave PvP. The victims left because its not fun to be a victim and the harassers left because there was no one to victimize.

This map is an attempt to merge the two worlds and accomodate a varied player base while having less separation between players of differing play styles. You are correct in assuming that most of the player base will live in PvE. Your solution to this is to "force" PvP on the PvE side to encourage more players to move to PvP. However as the history of this server, and history in general for that matter hath shewn, this will not work. Players will not move to PvP they will stop playing. Forcing people to do something never works long term even IRL. It can't work ever in a game where people can just opt out by not logging in.

This is a classic case of people knowing what they want but failing to understand what they need. What you want is more PvP and more players on the PvP map to PvP with. What you NEED to accomplish this and provide for your wants is a healthy player base and a reason for people to live on the PvP side of the map. You cannot accomplish this through "force" force is what has brought you to where you are. The first step in having players return to the PvP map is removing TnT. I know this isn't what you want but it is what you need.

Exp mining: HC has and always will be a grindhouse leveling system. This will never change nor should it. Though an FFA resource map would be a fun re addition. Can anyone say Warshard

 

[Parsalin]

Plots will be required and have been requested by the playerbase. They will be there but, at my guess, a little bit more expensive than they were on Sanctuary/Aegis. They won't take this feature out if you hope for that and Kainzo already announced plots to be implemented with release of Valorium.

​

I've asked about the release of an additional resource map in the Valorium main announcement thread, but didn't get a reply. This is definitely something that needs to be added.
I see no big issues in the implementation of that. It should be very easy to just create a random seed, build a little spawn area and add 2 portals to either maps, Valorium & the resource map. I suggest to finally release the Necropolis map for this.






War Time Regions: http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/war-time-regions.55672/

He thought of that forced PvP system into PvE before, that's all I can say to this. You cannot expect it to be there on release already, since he seems to be pushing the map release now, but he has mentioned it before. I assume this is all you will get regarding PvP in PvE.

i get that plots arent going away, people not like their cheat codes going away once they have them. and there should be some place where your things are safe... i was just saying remove the perm protections from it. a rent system that is managable for active members but not outragious would be what i was suggesting. and of course no one who had one is going to aggree, they are more then happy to let 20-30 people have something op while the rest of the server even if those 30 barely play cant.

Im also not against another map i just think if it can be done on another map effectivly then it should be doable one the main build map effectivly.

OK since you are pretty new here perhaps a few things need to be explained to you.

Forced PvP on PvE: The reason Kainzo and his team originally created a PvE map is because we were losing a large portion of our player base due to the inescapable harassment associated with HC PvP. This map at first was entirely separate, no items or souls transferred the idea being that people would PvE when they wanted and PvP when they wanted and live two separate HC lives. It didn't work, most players didn't have time for two lives so PvE people stayed in PvE and PvP people started leaving because they had no victims.

The next map release saw a system where the maps were separate but items and souls did transfer. (this is where you started) This was an improvement at first and many people mined and leveled on PvE but lived on PvP. Then TnT was introduced making regions on towns and residences vulnerable on the PvP map. Within a week the PvP map population dropped by half as people moved their homes to PvE where their stuff could be safe. The remaining PvP population slowly dwindled due to a lack of victims. Some moved to PvE permanently, some just quit playing. That is where we are now. A crippled server with most of its remaining population hiding on PvE waiting for it to get better.

To recap - attempts to "force" people to PvP in an effort to give the vocal PvP camp more of the defenseless victims they were demanding was causing an exodus of players from the server. A system was designed to keep these people from leaving the server entirely, while on the PvP map implementing more systems to "force" PvP and provide victims. These systems in turn caused more people to leave PvP. The victims left because its not fun to be a victim and the harassers left because there was no one to victimize.

This map is an attempt to merge the two worlds and accomodate a varied player base while having less separation between players of differing play styles. You are correct in assuming that most of the player base will live in PvE. Your solution to this is to "force" PvP on the PvE side to encourage more players to move to PvP. However as the history of this server, and history in general for that matter hath shewn, this will not work. Players will not move to PvP they will stop playing. Forcing people to do something never works long term even IRL. It can't work ever in a game where people can just opt out by not logging in.

This is a classic case of people knowing what they want but failing to understand what they need. What you want is more PvP and more players on the PvP map to PvP with. What you NEED to accomplish this and provide for your wants is a healthy player base and a reason for people to live on the PvP side of the map. You cannot accomplish this through "force" force is what has brought you to where you are. The first step in having players return to the PvP map is removing TnT. I know this isn't what you want but it is what you need.

Exp mining: HC has and always will be a grindhouse leveling system. This will never change nor should it. Though an FFA resource map would be a fun re addition. Can anyone say Warshard

this is a long recount of the hc history and i remember much of what you are talking about here. so let me adjust my war system. i think that even if you live in pve if you murder around willy nilly your free safe space should be risked. we could have a sort of flagging system. Kill nuetrals (nubs) enough and you red flag kill them once and you blue flag dont kill people and your white flaged if your in a town your town flag can change done want to be in a red flag town leave that town. The reason i got tired of the trolls ont his server is there was nothing i could do in responce except turtle in so i wasnt such a victim. I could not raid them back, because they didnt need towns to store items, because they had an op perminant place to store their misgotten loot. factions has lasted so long because its not perminant there are ways to dealw ith any protection.

its funny to because im not a pvper, ask any of them pvpers im bad at it but im still going to play in their sand box and make it damn hard to get me. im not pro pvp im pro even playing field. if i dont like some situation give me at least one option to deal with it. even if its rediculous like taking on a huge town full of pvpers, how awesome would it be to have everyone ont he server band together and seige that town take it down a few ranks and get a boat load of loot back?

finally im not saying get rid of exp grinding, thats this server in a nut shell. but what i am saying is have exp grinding without it chewing up the map and there are ways to accomplish this without even changing the current grind, if that is the desire.

 

[Avoir]

Want the map too live longer?

It's pretty simple, fix the bugs, implemented classes on time, actually care about the server and if Kainzo listened and respected his community I guarantee the map would last longer and be a lot better.

But meh just my opinion...

 

[Ruger392]

Take out pve make it hard to get decent stuff stop listening to whiney ass people.

 

[Ultanian]

Plots (and along with PvE) were used as safeguards by players to keep their things safe, even when they would be inactive for long periods of time. If plots were added again, the best way to balance them is change it to both a high initial cost to buy one, and a high taxation rate. I cannot stress how annoying it was to see the "top" PvPers hide all their loot in spawn.

 

[j2gay]

Take out pve make it hard to get decent stuff stop listening to whiney ass people.

Umm irony is lost on you me thinks

 

[j2gay]

Want the map too live longer?

It's pretty simple, fix the bugs, implemented classes on time, actually care about the server and if Kainzo listened and respected his community I guarantee the map would last longer and be a lot better.

But meh just my opinion...

Kainzo listens to the player base more than most server owners. Unfortunately many of the things he has implemented due to "player demand" have made the server worse not better.

 

[Parsalin]

Want the map too live longer?

It's pretty simple, fix the bugs, implemented classes on time, actually care about the server and if Kainzo listened and respected his community I guarantee the map would last longer and be a lot better.

But meh just my opinion...

This is minecraft and I know for a fact you'll abuse any bug or exploit you can find so the complaint is moot conning from you. Also I find the sever pretty smooth and well setup compared to some.

Take out pve make it hard to get decent stuff stop listening to whiney ass people.

Pve has its place too. I just don't think any one should be 100% safe. If you raid constantly then run off to pve to be safe there should consequences.

Kainzo listens to the player base more than most server owners. Unfortunately many of the things he has implemented due to "player demand" have made the server worse not better.

Agreed in a gaming community (minecraft) where you can't even talk to staff much of the time I've only ever seen him return what he's given.

 

[Parsalin]

Plots (and along with PvE) were used as safeguards by players to keep their things safe, even when they would be inactive for long periods of time. If plots were added again, the best way to balance them is change it to both a high initial cost to buy one, and a high taxation rate. I cannot stress how annoying it was to see the "top" PvPers hide all their loot in spawn.

I get that they aren't going any where but I would like an automated inactive removal system. Gives people a chance to maybe get some perfect protection late in the maps life. Also I don't think we should give any consideration to people who stop playing. When I took a break I didn't expect it either.

 

[Ruger392]

PvE doesnt has a place if u want to be safe and stuff make a secure town. And if we MUST have plots at least have them really expensive and make a few not a lot of plots

 

[j2gay]

PvE doesnt has a place if u want to be safe and stuff make a secure town. And if we MUST have plots at least have them really expensive and make a few not a lot of plots

If you weren't twelve you might realize that, fortunately for the rest of us, not everyone is like you.
You are making whiny posts about how a certain segment of the player base doesn't belong, in the same thread where you are making posts about not listening to whiny players.
Get a dictionary, look up irony, look up irrational, eat some humble pie and grow up.

 

[j2gay]

You seem butthurt for what, im not whining im just stating a fact without the pve map the server wouldnt had died

Yes it would have died entirely. The PvE map was born because the server was dying. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but for the last 6+ months 90% of the server populace is on PvE. As someone who was actually here when PvE was first started I can tell you that they didn't start there they ran there. If PvE was not there those players would have just been gone. Saying I am butthurt because you are stating a fact is just ignorant. I am being curt with you because its necessary. Ignorance and bigotry are forever hungry, and need feeding. Never let them breathe or give them food.